User talk:Elinnea/Archive1

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Hey Elinnea, good work on that LOTRO-store! I've added you to the Project Contributors page. Also, if you'd like to meet other contributors, feel free to drop by our #Lotro-wiki IRC on --Ravanel 06:50, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

Thank you! I'll work on figuring out how this IRC business works. ;) Elinnea 08:50, 9 May 2011 (EDT)
If you are using Mozilla Firefox, just clicking that link should work. If you are not, I believe you can download the program [1] here. After launching it, choose the server (click it) and type #Lotro-wiki and click it. This should get you in the correct chat channel. Hope this helped. --Ravanel 08:42, 13 May 2011 (EDT)
Promoted to Ninja Status! --Lotroadmin (talk) 01:05, 29 September 2011 (EDT)
Bureaucrat! With great powers comes great responsibility. --Lotroadmin (talk) 21:58, 6 February 2012 (EST)
Thank you! (I think you meant administrator.) It's much appreciated. I've already speared my first spam monster. --Elinnea (talk) 15:25, 7 February 2012 (EST)
Promoted to a Bureaucrats! Failed to correct this last time.. Sorry you have the powers to promote good monsters. --Lotroadmin (talk) 03:17, 26 April 2012 (EDT)
Thank you! -- Elinnea (talk) 09:54, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

Lore-master Skills with Missing Values

First, welcome back!
You told me you wanted to help me out with filling in the Values tables of Lore-master skill pages, which is great! I made two tables with what skills need some help: the first one is for Lore-master skills and the second one for the skills of Lore-master pets:

The following skill values (marked with an X) vary per player level and are incompletely documented on this wiki. They should be looked up in-game and added to their respective value tables. In the list below, the skills are sorted by level, so you can can see in one glance which skills to check for your character and which not. Remember that some traits and legacies affect the values you're gathering. You can look up which these are under the "Traits" and "Interactions" sections of the skill page. The values that need to be added to the tables are the unaltered base values, so make sure to unspec traits and unequip LI's that affect the skills you are working on.

Skill Morale cost Power cost Power per second Negate/reflect Rating Level acquired
Sign of Power: Command X X 1
Inner Flame X X 4
Test of Will X X 6
Gust of Wind X 8
Cracked Earth X X 14
Light of the Rising Dawn X X 18
Power of Knowledge X 16
Wisdom of the Council X 20
Ents go to War X X 41
Air-lore / Continual Air-lore X 44/64
Lightning Storm X X 50
Sign of Power: See All Ends X 58
Improved Sign of Power: Command X X 66

The following skills share their values:

  • All seven skills that cost morale have the same values for morale cost.
  • Wisdom of the Council damage reflected and (Continual) Air-lore negated.

Note: Sign of Power: Command and Sign of the Wild: Protection (now obsolete) used to share their parry rating.

Skill Power cost Damage Damage over time In-combat power regen Pet level acquired
Roaring Challenge X 1
Shatter Arms X X 19
Bear Hug X X 29
Benediction of the Raven X 15
Distraction X X >15
Fan the Flames X X 17
Beak Rend X X 17
Nobility X 17
Angry Bees X X X 20
Root Strike X X 20
Bursting Root X X 20
Surprise Attack X X 30
Feral Strike X X 34
Slashing Claws X X 39
Frostbite X X 56
Fury of Winter X X 56
Throat Slash X X 56

Note: the following skills share their power cost:

  • Benediction of the Raven, Distraction, Roaring Challenge, Bear Hug, Angry Bees, Root Strike and Bursting Root.
  • Feral Strike, Fan the Flames, Beak Rend, Frostbite, Fury of Winter and Throat Slash.

I wrote some help on how-to-gather on User:Ravanel/Sandbox2 which you can check if you don't know how to do it. This might especially be helpful for the pet skills - they are a bit more complicated. I saw that level 25 is already done for the Lore-master skills (as EoD's Lore-master is that level), but not for the pet skills (second table) yet. You can keep adding when you level up, or if you start a new Lore-master. Thanks a lot in advance! --Ravanel (talk) 14:24, 26 September 2011 (EDT)

Cooking Recipe Names

Hi, I have a question about some of the recipe names in RoI and was told you might have some thoughts on the subject. Most recipe items leave off the quantifier word at the beginning (such as Item:Winter Barley Flour Recipe vs. Item:Cup of Winter Barley Flour) but this leads to potential conflict with two of the new cooking recipes. I created Item:Cup of Oatmeal Recipe to distinguish it from the previously-existing Item:Bowl of Oatmeal Recipe, and added a note at the bottom that they're different. There is also a new recipe for a Loaf of Barley Bread, but Item:Barley Bread Recipe already exists. It's supposedly a Bree reputation recipe, though I didn't have it on my cook. These are auto-granted recipes, so I can't fall back on matching the in-game recipe title. My thought is that the quantifier word should be included in the recipe name for items like these where it makes a difference. Elinnea (talk) 10:35, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

Hi, thanks for starting working on these, I see no problem to use the quantifier, in fact I'm now tempted to review all existing auto-granted and rename the recipes with the quantifier too! :) --Goingbald (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2011 (EDT)

Gathering Lore-master Skill Values

I found something strange going on with the Raven's skill Distraction. Apparently it is regarded as a Tactical Skill and the tooltip is thus influenced by the Tactical offence (for instance found on all LI staves) of the Lore-master. (Remove your weapons/change your gear around, mouse over it again, and you will see a clear difference!) Take screenshots of only the pet's effect tooltip for the damage value for now, just to be safe. Also note that traiting Hardy Companion increases the damage of the skill by done by 2% (traits have been changed with RoI); you'll have to take this into account if you slot it to change the level of the Raven. --Ravanel (talk) 07:19, 3 October 2011 (EDT)

Good to know, since I'm just getting to level 11. I'll keep this in mind. --Elinnea (talk) 09:16, 3 October 2011 (EDT)

I found that Sign of the Wild: Protection has a parry rating in the tooltip where I couldn't find a formula for. I'm sorry I only found this out now. Could you also collect the parry rating value of this skill while your Lore-master gradually levels up? You're doing a great job so far on entering those skill values, thanks! --Ravanel (talk) 09:41, 2 November 2011 (EDT)

Effects on Skill pages

Hey there. I saw you've been working on minstrel skill pages. They look nice, good job! I have a small note for "Effects". This is supposed to be used a tiny bit different. With Effects the real effects, as they show up as a buff (an icon) under your own and/or fellow's vitals or as a debuff on your enemy target's vitals, are meant. The effects that should be added under this header should all be found under Category:Minstrel Effects (although you might have to double-check a lot in-game and add missing ones, like you already did). The information that you put there so far is already found in the tooltip, and should go under "Tactical Information" instead, with in addition a description in what cases the skill is useful (if there is anything to say about this). This can be either detailed (e.g. Test of Will) or compact (e.g. Burning Embers / Beacon of Hope). I changed Piercing Cry to reflect this. Please check if the information on this page is still correct, as I play my minstrel only sporadically. For the rest, good job, keep it up! : ) --Ravanel (talk) 05:46, 9 October 2011 (EDT)

Actually the only pages with anything under Effects are the ones that had something written before - I've only been changing the tooltips themselves, fixing the levels, and deleting other obsolete information, since that seemed the most urgent to correct. I plan to do another pass through the skills to add trait and effect information. Thanks for the tips though! --Elinnea (talk) 09:35, 9 October 2011 (EDT)
Oh sorry, I did not intensively check what exactly you changed and what was there already. It would be great if you could change the skills on a second overhaul reflecting these changes, though. As you know, a lot of information is outdated/incorrect. And what and how to put things under Traits, Effects, Interactions and Tactical Information is the more advanced (and fun!) part of the job. If you have any questions in the future, feel free to ask me! --Ravanel (talk) 10:08, 9 October 2011 (EDT)

A Mysterious Skill

I noticed Wounding Thrust hiding in the Minstrel Skills category. I'm guessing it was mis-categorized, since no such minstrel skill exists, but I was unable to find it as a skill for any other class either. Do you know where it belongs?

Belated signature: --Elinnea (talk) 21:59, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
I think it might have been in one of the Session Plays, the one with the Balrog. I'll check it. -- Starbursty (talk) 13:21, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
It was from the Session Play for Nafni in The Fall of Moria. I'll put that on my to do list. -- Starbursty (talk) 13:29, 18 October 2011 (EDT)

Mount Rear Up

Hiya! Cleaning out images and found this one that you uploaded: File:Mount Rear Up Emote.jpg. We already have a File:Mountrearup.jpg that's been linked to the Mounts page, so I'm not quite sure what to do with your screenshot - it's too nice to just delete, heh. That's the shot that was in the Free People's Press, isn't it? There must be someplace we can put it! :) Sethladan 00:59, 1 December 2011 (EST)

Heh, I had the same thoughts about it. I was going to make a page illustrating /mountrearup but someone else got to it first. Maybe it could go on a separate page, either for the emote or an item that bestows it (like Item:BOO!). I was thinking about making illustrations somewhere of the interesting emotes that don't have images or descriptions on the wiki yet - not that I really need any new projects to keep me busy...
Or you could just delete it. I promise I won't be hurt. I have it saved on my hard drive so I can look at it any time I want. ;) -- Elinnea (talk) 01:29, 1 December 2011 (EST)
Ah-hah! We'll keep it for the emote or item page, then. :) I guess /mountrearup will need to get added to the LOTRO Store at some point, too... And no, that should not be interpreted as me telling you to do it, heh. Thanks for chiming in! Sethladan 13:20, 1 December 2011 (EST)
Already done ;) LOTRO Store Character#Emotes - Elinnea (talk) 13:48, 1 December 2011 (EST)

Rep Items

Hi great Reputation-Item editor,
I would like to introduce you to Template:Reputation Item, which will simplify your (and my) life a lot. Please try to use it in the future or even update the old ones. If you have comments/suggestions or anything else to say, please say it on Template talk:Reputation Item. --EoD (talk) 12:39, 14 December 2011 (EST)

May have noticed, I have started going through the lower level Task Boards, and have verified that the ones that are now 10 have been changed. In the sections that I was unable to verify (at this time), I have replaced the amount with an "*" (or left the amount alone in the regions I am not able to get to), but it is looking like all the items have been changed to 10 in game. Olohof (talk) 08:08, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Master of Beasts and Hound-master quests

Regarding Quest:The Hound-master and Quest:The Master of Beasts.

Has the quest that starts from the Item:War-hound's Collar changed names? I have not had a character in that area or quest level range since Update 5 came out, so maybe there are unannounced changes.

Very interesting. The quest log for my character that did the quest between update 4 and update 5 when it was lvl 73 and named "The Master of Beasts" now shows it as lvl 74 "The Hound-master".

And what do you know - there is nothing about this change in the release notes. I have made some of the updates. RingTailCat (talk) 00:49, 7 January 2012 (EST)

I see the same thing: the character I have that completed the quest before update 5 had it as "The Master of Beasts" but the name has changed in the completed quests in his log. I didn't hear anything about it as a change: I only noticed when I started to add the level 75 quest "The Master of Beasts" and thought surely Turbine wouldn't have two quests with the same name, so I went to check on the old one. I don't have another character in that level range so I can't verify whether the lower level quest is now different when you first take it. -- Elinnea (talk) 09:58, 7 January 2012 (EST)


how could I guess? :)     —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zimoon (Contribs • User Talk) at 14:36, 6 February 2012.

Heh, it's a messy job, but somebody has to do it. :P -- Elinnea (talk) 15:43, 6 February 2012 (EST)

Can you read this?

I don't know if you can see Bullroarer pages, but this thread is entitled: U6 Crafted/Rep/Other Gear

Somebody managed to paste together "ALL"? of the new stuff! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magill (Contribs • User Talk) at 3 March 2012.

Everyone should be able to, as Bullroarer isn't in NDA mode.
That said, should information about U6 places, items, etc, start being added to the wiki, as long as they're marked with the Beta tag? JnK (talk) 05:08, 3 March 2012 (EST)
Yup, that forum is public so the information is available to all. And that is quite a thread! It's very helpful when people take the time to gather everything up like that.
I was poking around on Bullroarer the other day, trying out a few of the new features. Personally I prefer to wait to start adding new information until it's live, but I think it would be fine to start now, as long as the beta tag is always in place. It might help speed up the process a bit when the update hits and suddenly there's a lot to do at once. -- Elinnea (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2012 (EST)

Cool! I did not realize that there was no NDA for Update 6, but given the amount of information that Turbine has posted, it doesn't surprise me completely. I was quite surprised at how "polished" Update 6 is on Bullroarer. But I guess it shouldn't surprise me after the huge amount of flack (and the long time frame) that was associated with Dunland, and the fact that "apparently" Turbine screwed up the Beta access controls pretty badly -- i.e. letting anybody in.

As for when Update 6 will go live. I expect it to be live before the end of March at the latest. That would fit with Turbine's recently announced policy of "Monthly" updates. So far, with the exception of the new wallet issue, I have not seen anything to postpone it. And even the Wallet issue is primarily a "marketing" issue. (i.e. include it in the release for everyone or leave it as now requiring the expenditure of Turbine Points.) The "Soldier on Landscape" thing apparently works, but I haven't had an opportunity to try it out yet. It has the same issue -- it requires the expenditure of Turbine Points, so therefore becomes a "suits" dictum, not a "geek" problem. I suspect that both of these issues will come under the heading of "how much cash can we extract from the player base." Especially given that these two issues do not apply to the Kiddie F2P folks, but to the long-time LOTRO gamers. Although, I would love to see any kind of stats on how many f2p folks power-level to 75 just so they can hit this new area. (The entire expansion requires lvl 75.)

The Epic quest line itself is pretty amazing so far. And, there are only so many hours in a day, even for us retired types. The eyes get crossed eventually.

Oh well, time to get crack'n on the Epic structure pages.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 14:21, 3 March 2012 (EST)

Guild Recipes

Hi, I've dumped some ideas in talk:Crafting, really still a lot to do, almost all pages to review again. --Goingbald (talk) 15:48, 3 March 2012 (EST)

Angmar quest

see redirect i put in your new quest RingTailCat (talk) 12:27, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Aha, thank you very much! I did wonder why I couldn't find it. But I'm looking at the quest right now and it doesn't have the accent on the i. Is there a reason it's in the wiki that way? -- Elinnea (talk) 12:32, 9 March 2012 (EST)
Sorry I was so heavy handed. I was busy elsewhere, and wanted to get something in fast. If the name of the current quest is wrong, you may need to swap the content of the old quest and the new one (where I put the redirect). RingTailCat (talk) 12:54, 9 March 2012 (EST)
No problem, you saved me a bunch of work by swooping in so quickly. ;)
I'll switch the pages once I finish updating all the details. -- Elinnea (talk) 12:57, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Screenshots for Deletion

I was going through files to be deleted and noticed you marked the set of File:Gloves of the Glirberion.jpg and others for deletion, with a reminder note to add a deedreq parameter to the item tooltip. Was that a reminder to yourself? Do you want the images left there as a reminder or can I safely delete them? -- Elinnea (talk) 00:53, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Hi, I've deleted the images and added a reminder in this section; I'll try to check & fix it eventually if noone looked at it. --Goingbald (talk) 23:58, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
Okay, sounds fine. I just didn't want to delete anything if they were still serving some purpose. :) -- Elinnea (talk) 00:11, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

MP Info

Thanks for the comment and encouragement! MP info is so out of date it's daunting though. I do hope to keep going on it, but my goal is simply to keep it from falling behind too far! --B0 (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Problem with Westfold REcipes

I've hit a problem See Item Talk:Westfold Jeweller's Journal Recipe

Also why is Boilerplate:Crafting Obsolete?Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 00:06, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

I'm finding a LOT of errors in the Westfold recipes... Item:Campaign Gloves of the Rider Recipe has a item:Supreme Tailor's Journal where is should be a Item:Westfold Tailor's Journal.

It is also a dual output recipe. But the second output isn't mentioned. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 00:21, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

That sounds like copy-paste error. I think quite a few of the Westfold recipes were added in a hurry when the new crafting tier was added, and nobody has been back to fill them in or make corrections. I know I've seen a lot of recipe pages that were created but never actually filled in with information.
I'm taking a look at those other pages and will put comments over there. -- Elinnea (talk) 00:27, 3 April 2012 (EDT)
P.S. There is a somewhat standardized way to represent the dual outputs for recipes, in a table such as at Item:Finely Wrought Standard Recipe. -- Elinnea (talk) 00:50, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

Ah... ok... easy enough to change -- I just did it "sideways" for the Westfold Rider's Tailor recipes Tailor_Westfold_Recipe_Index#Light Armour (Théodred's Riders) - so now its "tabularized." Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 02:07, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

Good Guess

Ya, it looks like an elk to me too. Now. It must have looked like an Elf in disguise when I made the page. Or maybe I had a bad case of fumble fingers. RingTailCat (talk) 00:12, 5 April 2012 (EDT)

Oh, good. I know those Elves can be sneaky sometimes. -- Elinnea (talk) 00:14, 5 April 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, but How did That Fix the Categories

Thanks for moving, why I missed that when doing the factions is beyond me, sloppy me. However...
How did moving the page rectify the missing categories? I sat a long time with that and could not find an error with the parameters but yet each preview did not show any categories. I am stumped.
-- Zimoon (talk) 09:24, 7 April 2012 (EDT)

The item had that funny bug that comes from the disambigpage parameter not matching the name of the page. I'm not sure why that takes away the automatic categorization, but it seems to break a number of things with the item template. --Elinnea (talk) 09:48, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
Thanks, I will remember that in the future. Hug. -- Zimoon (talk) 16:07, 7 April 2012 (EDT)

Re: Updating the RK

Hi, and thank you for updating some of the RK skill descriptions. It's a class that's been much in need of some wiki-love. =) -- Elinnea (talk) 10:19, 29 February 2012 (EST)

You are very welcome, and I will continue to update it as needed. :) -- Perfectapproach (talk) 16:28, 9 April 2012 (EDT)

some more moria changes... crafting instances

Please take a look -- While finding Iron Garrison Resource Cache in pages with no category, I "matched" the related moria Crating Instance pages:

And at the same time "pretty-fied" them. I also added quite a bit of content as there really was no description of them as to what they really were-- Crafting Instances.

I also double categorized them. Category:Resource Spawns and Category:Crafting Resources -- don't know which makes more sense. Pick one, or something else entirely to tie them in to crafting not simply locations in Moria.

BTW, they do still "work" as described -- the only thing I do not know for certain is if the node-respawn timer is still existent. I think it is.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 03:07, 12 April 2012 (EDT)
Those pages do look much more informative now. I've never done any of those instances, actually. I should take a character there one of these days.
I'm not fond of them being categorized as Resource Spawns - which are, by the definition on that category page, objects on the landscape that can be tracked with the tracking skills. Crafting Resources - maybe. It might make more sense to just make a new "Crafting Instances" category directly under Category:Crafting. It seems logical that they should be at the same level as the category for Crafting Quests. -- Elinnea (talk) 00:55, 13 April 2012 (EDT)

These Crafting Instances are/were an idea, like the original "Work Order" System" for crafting resources that didn't quite pan out the way Turbine anticipated. I forget why/how they explained the elimination of the original Work Order system -- did they just increase the drop rates, or was it strictly because you could now buy the resource packs in the LOTRO Store. I suspect the latter, but don't know. The CIs were primarily about the quests as Turbine very quickly, or maybe even from the beginning, included the "nodes only respawn twice a week, but you can do the quests daily" rules. And the quests were always all about Golden Leaves! At least in my kin, everybody dumped on the idea of getting chests -- too much effor to get the keys for very little reward -- kind of like the problem Turbine presently has with the various Loot Boxes and their "supposed" LEVEL APPROPRIATE rewards. That has generated so much flack that Turbine finally admitted they screwed-up the loot tables for the boxes. Supposedly, they are now fixed in the 6.1 beta currently running -- but NOT according to the chatter in the Beta forum. And Turbine has not stated what they are going to do about the problem which they explained -- the contents of the Box are determined at the time of acquisition, NOT at opening. Meaning that everybody with junk boxes is stuck with spending TP to see if they "lucked out" or not. And considering that these are BOSS rewards for ROI instances and were "supposed" to include Symbols and the like... you get the idea. Raiders are far more vocal and articulate than the F2P tweenies. (Although, since the WB acquisition, Turbine has become infected with a huge number of folks who believe that "being mature" means Twittering away on Facebook, etc. all day long. :{

Ok, so there is now Category:Crafting Instances. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 02:54, 13 April 2012 (EDT)

Riders of Rohan -- pre-order quests

Check out the collection of quests I just put up for the new RoR "teaser" quests. Especially the Talk page for Quest_Talk:Herding_to_the_Trollshaws

--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 07:04, 5 June 2012 (EDT)


I don't know why I'm so partial to this section of the wiki, but it always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when I see you working on these. Mostly because I know if Elimnea's doing it, then they're in good hands! :D Sethladan 16:03, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Gee, thank you! I love updating skills - it's very satisfying work, and I learn a lot about how the game works. I look forward to seeing what comes out with RoR, though I am a little apprehensive about the mounted combat skills. I currently only have one character at 75 and each class will supposedly be getting some unique skills, so it could be hard to collect all the info. Have to see how it plays out, I suppose! -- Elinnea (talk) 16:29, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
Talking about such things... The RoR Pre-order quest/Deed - leads to the Deed/Skill Favour of the Mearas. Based on what we have seen so far, I created Category:Warhorse Skills. I have started to collect War-Steed stuff here: User:Magill/Projects-ROR-War-steed... anybody's guess where it really belongs.
--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:41, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
That sounds reasonable enough to me, based on what we know so far (which is not much). I'll be very curious to see how it's handled in the game, and I'll keep an eye on your info collection page. :) -- Elinnea (talk) 09:09, 30 June 2012 (EDT)


Argh! -- see :Talk:Tailor_Westfold_Recipe_Index#Medium_Armour_.28The_Riders_of_Stangard.29 -- starting to look like Budda's Elephant and the Blind men.

--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 18:54, 9 July 2012 (EDT)
Oof, sounds frustrating. I don't have a guilded Tailor of high enough level for the Stangard rep factions, which is why I haven't been filling in that information yet, but I'll take a look at those pages when I get a chance. If we get enough clear-thinking blind men together, maybe we can piece something together after all. ;) -- Elinnea (talk) 19:05, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Talk about opening a can of worms... The trigger problem was my Mini who just hit 74 with lvl 70 gear and keeps getting killed in Barnavon area by stupid warg riders and Dunlendings :) Check out: Dunland_Reputation_Light_Armour -- finding lots of things missing in recipes and such.

Thanks for reminding me about the rep discount.

--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 23:46, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Instrument (and whatever) cross references

Was asked about instruments for a particular level Minstrel -- could not find anything.

The closest I could find was Instruments

However, my Woodworker knew a couple -- Minstrel Instruments (Galadhrim) -- and "eventually" I managed to backtrack to Minstrel Items Index. But finding that list (which I knew I had seen before) was painful. Took many searches before I finally noticed the "Items index" page and tried it.

So, I'm adding cross references to the various pages.

See also:

I also note that only the Minstrel Items Index page lists all of the instrument types. (Pibgorns are missing, at least.)

Now to go check the trainers and guild hall (Galtrev) to see if there are recipes I don't have :)

--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 01:32, 11 July 2012 (EDT)

Hmmmm... only basic and simple Pibgorn are available from a Bard... nobody has recipes for them. Theodred's Riders have a "Premium Pibgorn" recipe, which the Woodworker_Westfold_Recipe_Index#Minstrel_Instruments lists as a Drop. Guess I'll have to go visit the Galadhrim and Malledhrim to see if they have any. Nope only bagpipes at Galadhrim (which I had before), nothing at Malledhrim, nothing at Stangard.

time for bed. :)
--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 02:18, 11 July 2012 (EDT)


Hey, thanks for the encouraging words at my talk page. I only just noticed that now though :), I guess I expected to get a new message notification when my talk page was updated, but for some reason I didn't.

Regarding objective messages in quest pages (such as this one you mentioned), it's not that I assume readers of the wiki are unintelligent, but rather that I prefer complete and consistent information. I also try to be as objective as possible, and even though some of the messages may seem trivial because they're pretty much a restatement of their objectives, deciding on which messages to put in and which ones not to based on interestingness would necessarily be subjective, which, as I said, I try to avoid as much as I can; not just because of personal preference but also because in a wiki, editors' subjective preferences will necessarily clash, and the only solution for this IMO is to try to be maximally objective. Therefore, my criterion is basically that if something is in the game, it should be in the wiki. Hope that makes sense.

Silver hr (talk) 15:52, 11 July 2012 (EDT)

Help Crafting Update

I don't know if you noticed or have been following Template talk:Crafting, but big changes are afoot!

I did a pretty significant update to Help:Crafting, please check it out if you get a chance. I had left two sections which I don't know what to do with. The second (create a Redirect page) is probably a yes, no answer -- I don't believe it is done anymore. I know that I have never done it as I think the search routine now maps the special characters and roman characters together.

The first Template talk:Item Tooltip is clearly outdated. I can probably guess which items are(or were) valid from a documentation point of view. But it clearly rambles on and I don't know what is still relevant. to the point of putting it in a separate doc page of some sort. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 23:28, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

The edits to the Help page look good. I moved a couple of the statements to the Help:Items page, and also put up the question of the special characters at Help talk:Crafting. I think the answer is probably no, but I thought I'd point out the issue in case somebody else wants to disagree.
I'm not sure what you're saying about the Template talk page, and I'm also not sure why Help pages are linked to it. It's a discussion page, not a boilerplate. I think maybe what used to be written there at some earlier point was already moved to a different page - Boilerplate:Item is my guess. Or maybe I'm just getting confused now... -- Elinnea (talk) 13:42, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

Yes, that is what I was trying to figure out -- why and/or what on the Template talk page was referred to for more information. I suspect it is an old artifact. Aha... just looked at the archive of that talk page... yes there WAS the proposed boilerplate there at one time. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 14:33, 4 August 2012 (EDT) A

Ah, that's good to know. If I find any other pages linking to that talk page incorrectly I'll switch them to the boilerplate page instead. -- Elinnea (talk) 15:14, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Rivendell Valley - Grammar Check Wanted

Hi Elin, the Rivendell overhaul is running towards its end. While not 100% finished the remaining things won't do much about text and so, hence I kindly ask you the favour to "stalk me" and bash my poor mistakes wherever they are. Not all text are mine, mind you, but I fail to see the errors so you can blame me whatsoever. I just ask since I consider you great at sweeping up what I mess up ;)

Cheers and thanks in advance
-- Zimoon (talk) 17:52, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks a bunch, deep bow for Elin! -- Zimoon (talk) 17:30, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
My pleasure! I hesitate over colloquial phrases such as being "in quite a pickle," but somebody wrote it and I guess it's not hurting anyone. :) -- Elinnea (talk) 18:55, 17 August 2012 (EDT)

Old merger proposal

Account Type merged-- see Talk:Account Types Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 00:39, 13 October 2012 (EDT)


Haha, NP. I was just wanting that someone edited my page for me to check the message, so double thanks! :D Gwenwyfar (talk) 14:36, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Oh, haha! Glad I could be of assistance! -- Elinnea (talk) 14:40, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

New Store option!

Have you seen this one?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:11, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Ugh, I did see it. It's hilarious, but I'm a little afraid to see what people are going to do with it. When I read Tolkien that's not the look that springs to mind. But hey, I think cosmetics are exactly the sort of thing that should be offered in the store, so I won't complain. -- Elinnea (talk) 23:41, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Gainful Employment

My big news from this week: a company has offered me a job, and today I accepted! I'll be testing software, doing quality assurance and trying to anticipate consequences and find bugs from changes in the code. So... kind of... exactly what I enjoy doing here, haha. It involves moving to another state, but they don't want me to start until January, so there are no immediate effects. I just wanted to share the good news with anybody who bothers to read my talk page. ;D -- Elinnea (talk) 18:47, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Congratulations! :D
I guess the only bad thing will be moving, its always so annoying, haha, so good luck with that :P
Gwenwyfar (talk) 20:06, 19 October 2012 (EDT)
Congrats on the job! Well-deserved and I know you kick butt at QA. :) Moving can be an adventure, but hopefully it's not too many states away. (If you're coming to the east coast, say hello!) Sethladan 02:49, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
Gratz on the job, and good luck with the moving. I meddled in QA a decade ago or so, depending on the situation it can be great, or it can be a challenge ;) -- Zimoon (talk) 05:56, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
Gratz and good luck. Moving is a pain, paired up with the winter, its a nightmare. Olohof (talk) 06:41, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
Thank you all! Yes, I'm bracing myself for that move, and in fact I'm moving farther north, so it'll be even worse. But at the moment it's such a relief that I've finally found someone willing to hire me that I'm happy to put up with many discomforts. Ask me again in a few months if I still feel that way. ;) -- Elinnea (talk) 18:11, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

Could You Verify...

Do you have a minstrel good enough for verifying the following diffs? I do not, but comparing to my hunter and rune-keeper the change do not follow what I found for those two classes.

Thanks in advance. -- Zimoon (talk) 08:10, 3 November 2012 (EDT)

My guess is that person wanted to make the deed more descriptive of what you actually have to do. That info ought to go in the Extra section, if so. I will check the wording in the deed log when I get a chance. -- Elinnea (talk) 15:21, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
I thought so too, but was not sure how it looked like in-game. Thanks in advance. -- Zimoon (talk) 05:49, 4 November 2012 (EST)

A listing of all level 85 Armour in the Lorebook

To get a listing of all level 85 Armour in the Lorebook:

Note that level 85 Jewelry is missing from the Lorebook.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 02:33, 7 November 2012 (EST)

Update 9 completely revises Stable-master window and Travel structure

See: User_talk:Magill#Update_9_completely_revises_Stable-master_window_and_Travel_structure

Update complete -- all crafting titles.

I just finished updating all of the Category:Crafting Titles pages (not to be confused with Crafting Titles pages.)

They all now include the T8 titles and match in terms of format. All now also use the templates so that the templates can be updated when T9 is added instead of having to modify each and every title page !!! (again!)

I also made all of the "category names" match the Profession names instead of being unique gerunds. I don't know if anyone ever looks for them, but if they do, they'll be able to look for "Metalsmith Titles" instead of "Metalsmithing Titles." Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:33, 7 December 2012 (EST)

Nice job, those all look like solid changes to me. I love forward-looking templates that will make things easier whenever there's a new tier added. :) -- Elinnea (talk) 23:38, 7 December 2012 (EST)

Bridle Relics -- I see we have nothing on this topic

A new thread in the Forums: CRAFTED bridle relics

I had no idea this could be done till I read this thread. A quick search of LOTRO-WIKI did not show up any "bridle relic" hits.

There is a section in the Lorebook: Section 18

I've been spending most all my time lately working with Turbine and Pando on the Mac Client and other download issues, but thought this might be an interesting topic for someone to tackle.

I've pointed those who have edited Bridle Legacies to this comment.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC talk 13:14, 5 February 2013 (EST)

U11- Yellow Trait Tree changes for War-steeds

Please see discussion at: Talk:War-steed Traits. I have begun building a page of "stuff" User:Magill/Projects-Update 11-LM-mounted-companion trying to capture the information being presented. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 10:22, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Change in emotes...

Apparently a change (unannounced) was made recently in the emote deeds. One of my kin mates messaged me...

'did you know they changed the rules for the emote deeds? I completed 14 of them today on a mule by emoting an NPC everyday - rather than by having emotes done to me' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magill (Contribs • User Talk).

I'm not sure it was THAT recent. During this past Yule Festival, I unexpectedly completed an emote deed doing The Abominable Snow-beasts (where you have to /cheer at snowbeasts). -- JnK (talk) 21:20, 30 May 2013 (EDT)
Woah, I had not heard about this change. I assume that switch applies to all the deeds, the ones that give titles as well as emotes? And that the daily limit is still in effect. It's easy enough to test, if perhaps a bit tedious. I know some NPCs that are in need of some good /salutes! -- Elinnea (talk) 23:34, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Skill Template Edits

I'm glad you're working on implementing the tooltip and popup ability to the skill template, that's something I've wished for for a long time. But I notice you also removed the lines I just added to the skill cost/type section. Was that intentional? Now the blank cost lines are showing up on all the skill pages. -- Elinnea (talk) 19:15, 24 June 2013 (EDT)

No, not intentional, my sandbox version only seemed to miss the recent #default change in some case sections, sorry I've removed something, not sure which lines you are talking about, I'll need to revisit all pages to remove the TOC and .png then add the onlyinclude tag. --Goingbald (talk) 19:37, 24 June 2013 (EDT)
It's the change I wrote about here: Template_talk:Skill#War-steed_Power_Cost. It's not a big deal, I don't mind putting it back in, if you're done making other fixes to the template itself.
That seems like a lot of work you're doing. There are many skill pages. Are you sure it's not something a bot could take care of? -- Elinnea (talk) 20:07, 24 June 2013 (EDT)

Need to undelete an icon file please

Hi there Elinnea,

The new generic file Earring 47 (rare)-icon.png accidentally was deleted along with the old item-specific icon files. Need an admin to either undelete that file or the file File:Earring of the Rider-icon.png it was renamed from. Thanks.
-Shardis (talk) 10:41, 26 June 2013 (EDT)

Yeah, sorry, that was totally my fault. The talk page redirect sent me to the wrong file to delete. It's back now. -- Elinnea (talk) 10:49, 26 June 2013 (EDT)

Fix for Template Skill

I started out categorizing a bunch of "uncategorized" pages and started working on Minstrel items when I finished putting all the Mounts in Category: Mounts (I think I got them all.)

While working with Minstrel skills, I found 3 things which are "broken" with Skills .... (I suspect it applies to all classes, but I haven't looked yet.)

1- The value should be "icon" not "image"... I've changed this in the preload and the doc file. i.e. the template wants "icon".

2- The value should then be "<name>-icon" no .png at the end...

These chances could possibly be a bot run to fix... don't know how many there are to fix and if anyone is around who still "bots." I know zero about creating a bot. Do you? Amphoras maybe? RTC is apparently out for the foreseeable future.

3- The {{toc-right}} should be __NOTOC__ to get rid of that ugly black space in the skill display. I guess this one is purely personal preference... or maybe putting the toc-right BELOW the template. Personally, I think the pages are basically short enough that no toc is necessary at all... just clutters up the page.

See Anthem of War with toc-right below. Anthem of Compassion has no toc.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 03:30, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

Sigh... just noticed #4... | disambigpage = is missing.... so the auto categorization does not work!

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 03:41, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
Ah, yeah, that was a bit unfortunate. My last edit on Invigorate I think includes everything that needs to happen to the skills pages to fix them with Goingbald's new tooltip enhancement. It needs to happen with all the skills, I am very much afraid. I don't know anything about bots either, but maybe I ought to learn speedy-quick. Or else possibly revert the skill template changes until we're prepared to clean up all the skill pages. I don't like leaving so many pages out there looking broken.
A couple of the skill pages are pretty long, but in general I'd agree that the table of contents isn't needed. -- Elinnea (talk) 09:20, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
In particular, if you're editing skills pages we also need to add a pair of <onlyinclude>s and a mode={{{mode|}}} line at the top so the skill can be used as a tooltip popup like items. I used that ability at Invigorate (Trait) and it is pretty cool, but it requires some cleanup first to make it work. -- Elinnea (talk) 09:36, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
Phew... updating the Template:Skill/doc page is work!!!! I had done some similar work (which I never finished) updating the doc page for Tool tips User:Magill/Sandbox-tooltip/doc creating a test page with every parameter filled in!. Playing the same game with Skills... using the Create Skill tool as a testing tool. And I just realized that there is also a boilerplate doc file gerrrr -- this is one of those things that does a multiple include when you use the "Create Skill" tool. Now I have to think about how to best integrate the four pieces --
mostly done -- don't think I broke anything :) although I did find some apparently broken parameters in the template
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:40, 28 June 2013 (EDT)

OK... done, I think. Template:Skill/doc now documents every parameter. At the moment I have left the original info in Boilerplate:Skill for verification but intend to delete it as I have also trancluded Template:Skill/doc.

  • I have changed some slightly and elaborated on others for some of the original boilerplate entries.
  • The preload now correctly includes:
| mode={{{mode|}}}
| arg={{{arg|}}}
| name                = 
| disambigpage        = {{s<includeonly />ubst:FULLPAGENAME}}
| icon                = -icon
| add1                = 
| add1-every          = 
| add1-type           = 
| add2                = 
| add2-every          = 
| add2-type           = 

do not appear to do anything. I see what is supposed to be displayed, but the logic doesn't seem to work. However, I'm not that fluent in the "language" of templates, so I understand why they apparently are not being evaluated.

  • On a different but related topic. I have found quite a few Category:Mounts which were uncategorized -- because they used an abbreviated Skill template. No idea what template they should really use. Or if the "main-category" parameter needs to be modified to process "Mounts" or something similar.

If the disamb parameter is added to those pages, they will all wind up in a "Mount Skill" category... good or bad??? don't know.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 02:18, 29 June 2013 (EDT)
Thanks Magill. Documentation work is always appreciated. I've been quite busy this week, but as soon as I get some time set aside I plan to sit down and have a look at all this skills business. -- Elinnea (talk) 08:45, 29 June 2013 (EDT)
Check it out now...
One question -- should the Skill now be a pop-up? or just the effect?... and then only if you use the syntax{{:Cry of the Chorus (Effect)|mode=imlink}} I'm trying to understand the last example on the boilerplate page... it doesn't seem to be correct.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 23:07, 29 June 2013 (EDT)
I have changed Minstrel Skills#Anthems to use the pop-up tooltips... and have "fixed" each of the corresponding descriptions and effects to also use the corresponding pop-up tool tips -- using mode=imlink to insert the icons in the text lines... They could simply use mode=link to provide the pop-up on mouse-over but without the icon displaying in-line.
The major difference by using the mode=imlink tool-tips in the table is that it makes the lines "fatter." It could still be done using the 18px icons and mode=link... again providing the pop-up without the icon. I don't know which is esthetically more desirable.

The one thing I could not get to work -- as I recall, long ago ?Seth? managed to get the text to display butt against the Icon instead of line wrapping UNDER it as the second line does (Anthem of the free peoples). There is a "float" parameter in the Template:Tooltip but it doesn't appear to propagate -- or at least I could not find the appropriate syntax.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:43, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
Oooh, I really like that. It does change the look of the page to have the larger icons, but I think it's worth it. With the imlink format, if an icon is changed it only has to be updated at the skill page, instead of also at every index it's listed on. I think this will be a big step forward for skills on the wiki, once everything is smoothed out.
I don't know about how to fix the line-wrapping. If I figure anything out along those lines I'll let you know.
Also I made a comment at Template talk:Skill and would appreciate your thoughts. Some discussion should be documented there, rather than scattered across a few peoples' talk pages. -- Elinnea (talk) 10:33, 30 June 2013 (EDT)

Skill/effect cleanup

Phew... I think... The pages Minstrel Skills and Guardian Skills have all been updated. And I believe I have updated all of the corresponding entries for skills and imbedded effects references.

A maraton 6 hour editing session! Please look them over if I missed/screwed up anything...

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 05:08, 8 July 2013 (EDT)
Just wanted to mention in case you hadn't noticed, that I've updated Rune-keeper Skills as well. Let me know if I've missed anything :Snarpel (talk) 16:53, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

Cool... User:Barny updated the Burglar pages, and I just did the index page Burglar Skills.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 06:29, 10 July 2013 (EDT)
Yay teamwork! We'll get this done yet. :D -- Elinnea (talk) 08:16, 10 July 2013 (EDT)

Trait template

Just in case you missed my question here I decided to ask a couple of people directly. Basically I'm having a problem with my new tooltip enabled Trait template which is keeping it in the sandbox. It keeps putting a spurious line break in the generated output and I can't figure out where it is coming from. User:Magill suggested that this problem has been seen before so I was wondering if maybe you can offer some insight?

Twenty questions -- July

The latest batch of 20 questions was just posted...

Read question 7. Read the answer beginning with the second sentence ignoring the original question.
You don't need to read between the lines, but understand that the answer says A LOT more than it appears.

Q7: It has been said before that adding a new Freep class isn't on the cards, but why is that so? Is there simply no feasible placement for a new class given the roles of current classes or is it more a case of prioritizing time, resources, etc?

A7: Creating a class from scratch is a big endeavor. Our current class revamps should, in theory, have several beneficial byproducts. First, we are cleaning them up, top-to-bottom. They will be more rewarding and builds will be more defined. They will also be easier for us to maintain. While I can’t say that a new class is in the works (there isn’t) the revamp will make it a lot easier to consider one in the future. - Zimmitti
Yes indeed, that answer did make me perk up. I'm not sure what to make of it - sounds like simplification, flexibility, who knows? I actually really enjoy class revamps (even though it means a lot of wiki work) as long as they still keep it possible to collect information at a low level. I only actively play a few classes, so I count on a low-level burglar (for instance) being able to run to a skills trainer and see what's all available at higher levels. Mounted combat is difficult to document because I can't do that for a lot of aspects. Anyway, looking forward to seeing what they do. I'm sure it'll be a while yet before we get solid info. -- Elinnea (talk) 22:22, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
As always, the goal is "simplification and improved gameplay"... but, it depends on your point of view. The LOTRO "system" is very different from other MMO systems, and the goal is to make it more similar to them... which means less of a learning curve for new players, but existing players... will need retraining. How this is happening is still very nebulous. What is actually happening is far more solid... but still like warm jello! :) The changes are not "really" that substantial, but more than "tweeks:' except for the how, which is. There "should" be more information available "soon(tm)".

Another new "difference" - problem for tooltip template?

In working the various templates, I came across this: Item Talk:Superior Oak Horn

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 03:35, 16 July 2013 (EDT)