User talk:Varghedin

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Wonderful additions to the wiki so far! The images are a great addition to places. Keep up the good work. Rogue 21:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you :) --Varghedin 16:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
In future, could you please put [[Category:Location Images]] in the summary box! Pretty please :D Rogue 05:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Alright --Varghedin 18:35, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


Welcome to Ninja Status

You've done excellent work for the site and it's time for a promotion. Welcome to Ninja status. Rogue 18:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks =) --Varghedin 09:38, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


You play Warhammer.

Dead give-a-ways are usually Ork instead of Orc. :) Rogue 01:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually I don't play much Warhammer, so if I wrote "ork" then I must've been confused :P --Varghedin 14:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I Like Your Camera

Yes, I do :) -- Zimoon (talk) 16:47, 7 November 2011 (EST)

Hehe, I like it too :) --Varghedin (talk) 15:07, 9 November 2011 (EST)
A comment though, with kindest intention: When images are scaled down to 400px (as at all location pages) the somewhat darker images becomes even darker (as part of the scaling algorithm), and details are lost. If possible, use high ISO numbers and longer shutter speed, that would make them brighter ;) Unless you do mind I can replace those old images I find with same-image after brightening them up. But perhaps those I find are older and more recent shots are brighter to start with, if so, please bear with me.
Zimoon (talk) 07:26, 27 February 2012 (EST)

Tyl Aegonn

This page looks a little orphaned now, heh. Is the landmark gone? Sethladan 19:23, 9 November 2011 (EST)

I searched everywhere for it, including on the official site and around Evendim. It was nowhere to be found, but I found one remark that the location's lorebook entry had been removed. I guess the page is indeed an orphan... --Varghedin (talk) 19:30, 9 November 2011 (EST)
Can't find anything on Google myself - plenty of sites reference it, but no actual info. Thanks for following up, guess I'll axe the page, then, heh. :) Sethladan 20:01, 9 November 2011 (EST)

{{PAGENAME}}

Could you please use a page's actual name instead of this code? I know it makes copying and pasting things a lot easier, but it sort of became the bane of our existence when it overproliferated like a voracious weed, hahah. Another option is {{subst:PAGENAME}} which will actually insert the page's name once you've saved. Thanks, and congratulations on your promotion. :) Sethladan 11:20, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Alright, didn't know that was an issue. My promotion was 2.5 years ago, but thanks anyway :) --Varghedin (talk) 15:02, 11 November 2011 (EST)
You got another one two days ago, too, heh. And, yeah, it's not a major issue; I just don't want people to get into the habit of using it lest it start creeping around again. I think it was probably more widely used when you started here - we've only just managed to get bots to root most of it out. :-P Sethladan 16:00, 11 November 2011 (EST)
Oh, nobody told me about that promotion :P Thanks then, I guess I'll update my profile :) --Varghedin (talk) 07:24, 12 November 2011 (EST)

Locations Thingie

I was made aware of some pages so I thought you'd want to have this link: Create new location

Please use the format as-is so we can keep a somewhat uniform style. There is seldom a need to do something with the top section, but sometimes circumstances force us to "invent" something for the lower sections, not very often though.
Zimoon (talk) 21:25, 7 January 2012 (EST)

I see. If I have no information on the area though, should I really keep all those empty sections? Seems a bit clumsy. Also, why is the lore section all the way towards the bottom? I think it should be the first or second section on the page as it contains the type of information that one looks for on a proper wiki.--Varghedin (talk) 06:10, 8 January 2012 (EST)
Adding a stub is just fine, then rather add it to the [[Category:Region Name]] and it will be picked up eventually. And a {{Stub/Location}} of course. But remove the empty sections, yes. Or just a plain page with the brief info we have right now.
Lore, in the sense literature or prose, is less factual than what is meant to be under "location". I did not do the format but understand the intention to keep facts topmost and "lore" next. An exception are NPCs which definitely is interesting. In a way I agree that lore is important; Tolkien spent an awful lot of text on describing the surroundings. However, I think most players quickly want to find services and quests, this is a wiki for gamers after all.
Did you have another interpretation of "lore"? Or do I misunderstand something? Zimoon (talk) 18:40, 8 January 2012 (EST)

NPC Icons

Hi. I noticed you adding Category:NPC Icons images. I like the idea. I would like to be able to add these myself.

Where are you finding them? How are you creating them? Are you capturing them from the NPC portrait somehow?

Why are they (at least some of them) 30x30 instead of 32x32 pixels, and why are the GIF format instead of JPG format like our images, or PNG format like our other icons? Are you finding and extracting resource images?

- RingTailCat (talk) 16:54, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

Hello, RingTailCat. I am making these icons myself, from available screenshots taken either myself or copied from the site. I'm using Photoshop to crop the pictures around the face and black out the backgrounds. I'm using the sharpen tool to make the pictures crisper, and sometimes increasing brightness/contrast if the picture is dark. I chose 30x30 because I thought it would be a nice size - small enough to not be overwhelming or dominating, and yet big enough to discern the detail of the NPCs. I chose GIF because it creates small, easy files that are quick to load. --Varghedin (talk) 17:04, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
Addendum: You can of course use the icons I've made freely - I've used them only to describe Bree-lands NPCs but they have a potential for use in many different types of articles. Also, if you have an interest in having some particular icon made, you could potentially ask me to make one for you (within reason). --Varghedin (talk) 17:08, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
I was a bit baffled first, but I do not really object or so.
I am not sure there will be hundreds of them as many many many NPCs share the bitmap looks. But if you believe there will be many hundreds of them I suggest you think of splitting the category right away. Whether geography, race, or what, I do not know. But I do know that it will be impossible to find a "generic" icon if there is no order ;)
Are you visiting the locations in game if you find dark/ui-artefact/flawed images too? I have just run over Ered Luin and The Shire fixing some stuff I never fixed when I was new around this wiki and there are quite a few images that could be replaced. Preferably by a hobbit or dwarf taking the screenshots, to avoid looking-down on the poor NPC :-) If not, another day maybe.
-- Zimoon (talk) 18:20, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
PS, sorry. I notice that you have "generic" icons. Great! That was why I did not notice any loading impact, they are so few :)
Then there will just be a small number for certain odd-NPCs I guess. -- Zimoon (talk) 18:24, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
HOWEVER, I do not like these icons in the "service" or similar lists. It is nice in lists of NPCs when the icon is left-most, but it is distracting and does not add value in lists of services or similar that some NPCs provide.
Let such lists be clean for their original purpose, and not burdened with irrelevant icons.
I am uncertain whether it is good to line up several icons for things like "drunkard", "townsperson", etc. I wonder if it is possible to replace them with some icon that is a morph of genders and all races? Anyway, those lines add no value but is more of a show-off, right? ;)
Before you go ahead all over the regions, let us hear what other senior editors think. I like your initiative, but perhaps we should limit amount of icons per line, and limit where they may be used and where not. Those limitations may be stated at the "Cat:NPC Icons page", if we find some consensus. Just pause right now so the possible roll-backs will be less ;)
-- Zimoon (talk) 18:34, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
Right, I get what you mean. It did seem awkward even when I added those at the top of Bree-town, so I'll remove them again if you haven't already. As for the 'townsperson' etc, I made a morph as you asked: Morph.gif. I guess it kind of looks a bit androgynous and vaguely half-elven, which I suppose was your intention. I'm just not sure it will be easy to understand that it represents all the races. (And no, the intetion of adding multiple icons on the line was not to show off, but just to be completionist.) It does make the job much easier to handle by using the morph icon when there is ambiguity in the race/gender, though, I suppose. --Varghedin (talk) 19:20, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
I have heard, from reading the forums, but not actually seen this myself, that some NPCs have different random skins. I have noticed that stables horses have different appearences, somewhat at random. Appearantly, some NPCs will have different skins at different times for you, or different skins for different characters at the same time. I'm not sure if this applies to named NPCs or NPCs who have assigned roles, or only for scenery NPCs. This may not be a problem if we are only using unique icons for some named NPCs and race+gender specific icons for everyone else. RingTailCat (talk) 19:42, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
I have to admit, I was kind of astonished at the flood of .gifs and the bold new idea and direction but, while the obsessive organizationalist in me lurches to object, I find that I really like the visual effect of those miniature portraits. A couple of thoughts:
  • Would it be a significant difference in terms of size, work, or quality to make them 32x32 and .png for the sake of consistency with other icons?
  • Instead of morphing the image, is there a possibility of some sort of "multiple" portrait in which you could crowd two or more smaller heads (for example, a dwarf and a man) and thereby perhaps more accurately convey the idea that multiple races/genders fill that particular role?
Nice to see continued innovation. :) Sethladan 19:57, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
I think I prefer this composite over the morph, myself: Composite.png. --Varghedin (talk) 20:55, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
Back, after a nights sleep. Great to read that we agree on the non-NPC lists, that content still rules.
The show-off was kind of a joke, sorry. I gathered the completionist, we are alike at that point, an obsession I think all of us in this subject share, for good and for bad, haha. The composite was great, I like that a lot better than the morph (I thought already when typing that it should be really hard to get one to work, other than from the filename).
Yes, NPCs have different appearances, but there are only so many of them per race, I'd say less than ten each, perhaps even much less than so, blond/dark Man/Woman, etc. I do not know about the later expansions, if they are more varied, but IMHO Lotro sucks in this regard. The mobs are more varied than the NPCs ;)
We need to watch out a bit though, some NPCs have special looks. Such as Butterbar at the Pony, but I think they are very few.
And a question, would it look nice to have rounded corners? I do not know, I ask.
@Seth, just remember that size is space. All lists will grow. The "displayed" icon size at Info boxes are often 24, but not always, set by the templates. But I rather have have the original icon the agreed upon size than the wiki-engine should scale them whenever asked for, to uncontrolled results.
-- Zimoon (talk) 01:55, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
PS: I experimented a bit with Bree, trying to avoid the bullets to the left of the icons...which are superfluous with the icons. Or not? Look at Category:Bree NPCs and scroll up and down and see lists with bullets, and the topmost without. -- Zimoon (talk) 02:21, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
Alright, I've removed all the bullet points. I agree, they look strange together with the tables. I've also changed all the icons to .PNG and 32x32px. As for the skins of each race, I think that's a very slippery slope. The NPCs have different hair colour and hair style combinations as well. I say we just have a standard icon for each race/class combination and rather make icons for NPCs that are particularly unique. I made one of Barliman even though his model isn't actually completely unique. But since he's important also in the books and a recognizable character, I made one of him as well as the water-spirit Willowsong who has a unique river-maiden texture. Oh, and I changed the listed icons to the composite icons (I made one for each race as well). I must say it does look better. --Varghedin (talk) 06:18, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
Awesome. Nah, I agree, having one for each variation would be an overkill. I really do not know how many they are. Old/young blond/dark man/woman, are there anymore of race of man? But just those would be 8 icons for just one race! Ahum, dwarves are less ;)
-- Zimoon (talk) 13:50, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
Red hair, brown hair, black hair, blonde hair, pale skin, tan skin, dark skin, beard, mustache, goatee, clean shaven, short hair, long hair, medium hair, slicked back etc etc etc. And that's only for a male human. And they come in all kinds of combinations. I'm so not going there :) --Varghedin (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
Yeah, I underestimated grossly. Let's stay with the current scheme but we need to remember if anybody has a more particular look. Not many has, but some. There are hooded rangers and not-hooded and Saerdan ;)
The two elvish icons could be made more different by male=dark hair, now both are blonde. That is the only thing I noticed.
I also noticed that double icon at Halecatch Lake, the turtle eate..catchers, that looked odd in the list. I think it is best with just one of the two and since it does not matter you pick a random.
I also noticed that at some area pages there were no end-of-line marker so ... I have fixed the areas Shire, Bree-land, and Ered Luin so no worries. I will keep an eye out when/if you continue.
-- Zimoon (talk) 16:53, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
Alright. The hood on the icon is to separate the rangers from other male humans - without a hood they just look like a human male. It doesn't matter if they actually wear a hood in-game, the icons aren't supposed to represent what the NPC wears but rather their classification - so you'll see the hooded icon and instantly recognize that the listed NPC is a ranger. Thanks for fixing that end of the line thing - I'm not sure what that means so there might be more of them coming up. I made both elves blonde on purpose to more easily distinguish them from humans. However, I could change up the male's hairstyle so it looks more different from the female - I agree they kind of look too similar to each other. --Varghedin (talk) 17:58, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
You should not take me that serious, I am usually quite cheerful ;)
You've probably noticed that I usually do not add lonely NPCs to a category. That is why some appear at that area-category page and listed there by location for the completeness. Those pages with just one or two NPCs need icons on their own but should be quite few. I just did Ered Luin and can continue with The Shire and Bree-land tomorrow.
I added a |left to a few names. For longer names it makes the name line-break but keep to the right of the icon, and the name always begins at top right of the image. I do not want to change the width of the tables just for those few, I'd rather keep the widths uniform all over the place, and not all vistors use wide-screen with maximized browser windows ;)
Great job, keep it up!!!
-- Zimoon (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
I'm quite cheerful myself, so no worries :) I did notice that some NPCs are just listed right on the main page, but I think I've done a fair job of including them in the icons. But if you're following my tracks and correcting stuff that is great. --Varghedin (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
Just to prepare you. I have done from starter areas to The Lone-lands, The North Downs, Evendim, and have started at The Trollshaws but realized I had to backtrace and use things I learned over the previous regions. And with "done" I chiefly mean "locations" but as said elsewhere that includes NPCs, quests, deeds, and whatever that happens to be geographically bound in some way. Hence, after these regions there will be more willy-nilly style to NPCs and so forth. Do whatever you please, I will fix when I level up anyway ;) --Zimoon (talk) 03:41, 13 June 2012 (EDT)


Heya, I saw you changes to the instances, and I think that the icons look awesome! GB, GA, Fornost, and Annuminas all look great. However, when I saw your changes to GS, and Forges and so forth, it seemed a little less spectacular. Keep in mind that most all bosses have a unique look, or at least stand out, and should not be considered your typical type of mob. I understand that you may have yet to go to some of these locations, but images can be found on youtube, if not the wiki. Also you seem to have moved on to moria without doing the angmar instances, or any of the raids. (Storvâgûn of Helegrod. Look him up. He is huge.) Just suggestions, but magnificent work! /cheer --Bonzesquire (talk) 01:12, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I didn't really 'move on' to the Moria instances, I just did the quest/public dungeons first and then I'll do the instanced dungeons and raids as I get to them. I'm not a dungeoneer/raider myself though so I usually have no idea what the mobs look like, so when there's no image of them anywhere that I can find, I'll end up using more standardized icons for them judging by their race. Youtube is possibly a source of imaging but very often the quality is too low or covered in spell effects etc to be able to use it. I'll see what I can do about it, though. --Varghedin (talk) 12:24, 2 July 2012 (EDT)
Hia, I see we need RangerF/M icons. While we could use HumanF for females they do not look too similar to the common Bree-landish females, do they? See Harthadril as an example, but also others, especially in Evendim. What do you think about that? -- Zimoon (talk) 11:34, 17 August 2012 (EDT)

Like so: RangerF.png? --Varghedin (talk) 04:53, 24 August 2012 (EDT)

Cool. Looking great. Not that all have hoods, but not all male rangers have hoods either ;-)
I do not think you have to change all Ranger.png to RangerM, or ask RTC to run a bot for that (unless you have one of your own). And I do not think we need to run an extra turn to dig up female Rangers, but whenever we come across them. Thanks mate! -- Zimoon (talk) 06:34, 24 August 2012 (EDT)