Lotro-Wiki.com talk:Monster Play

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Need some discussion to help figure out a problem:

What is the difference between an NPC and a Mob in Monster Play? Which template should be used for which creature and categorization?

In monster play, Tyrant Barashish is a target boss mob, not an interactive NPC yet our Mob template has no controls for dealing with faction based hostility of creatures. This means we'll need a new Mob template for Monster Play (no big deal -- I was planning on one anyway).

The real problems are do we want to keep NPC models as NPC's or make them Mobs?

  • Will this lead to confusion by players?
2 of the same type near each other, 1 is listed as an NPC, 1 as a Mob. One gives quests, one doesn't.
  • Will this cause searchers to have problems?
looking for Chieftains? We can put a category out there for them but 1 will show as an NPC, 1 as a Mob.

etc...

My current leanings are towards all named and humanoid types should be NPC's. All other types should be Mobs. This would make spiders Mobs but the named spiders NPC's; bears Mobs but the named bear an NPC; eagles Mobs but the named eagle an NPC; all hobbits, orcs, trolls, elves, etc.. would be NPC's.

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
--Eleazaros 11:34, 4 March 2008 (PST)

It's an interesting conundrum... there's Freep NPCs, Creep NPCs, creep-hostile mobs, freep-hostile mobs, all-hostile mobs... some of them also overlap. I think it makes sense the way you describe, although where to draw the line on things like wood-trolls and fell-spirits in the Delving could could be subjective. MysterX 15:30, 4 March 2008 (PST)
Don't go to the Delving!!! lol
Serious though... It's a problem. I just finished creating a new MP Mob template earlier that helps out a bit with auto-categorization of creatures and created a few entries with it.
Now compare these with:

etc...

I have several NPC classed "named" guys as type Mob. The Overseer is using the Mob Template. Visually, to a user, it doesn't look much different and I can easily make a LM "infobox" creature summary template to provide additional details that can be inserted onto/into either page but it is a bit of a quandary. Do I add the NPC's to the Creature Categories or what not...
--Eleazaros 22:57, 4 March 2008 (PST)

Working a major update/overhaul of the Ettenmoors

I have been working on doing a major update of the Ettenmoors: User:Magill/Sandbox-5 and have been adding and updating many of the various locations, quests mobs and such on related pages. (Primarily from a Freep point of view at this time.)

One thing which I just noticed on the Coldeve Stone-hewer mentioned above... This is a true MOB, probably not hostile to Creeps, but I don't know for certain. (I have to create a Creep to find out I guess)

What I noticed is that it is listed as "faction = creep". In my experience as a Freep, I would lean more towards "Neutral" (i.e. leaving "faction" blank) as, at least the ones up near Isendeep, do not agro "instantly," but simply "threaten" at first.

I don't believe that these Trolls are:

  1. the same as the "Troll Session" play
  2. or the "supporting" MOBS, such as the Morningthaw Wardens and Sun-touched Eagles led by Old Goldhead and [Golloval]] respectively

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 23:17, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

They don't attack creeps, which is probably why they are listed as being in that faction. While they might not attack instantly, they're more on the creep side than neutral. If they were truly neutral, then they should attack both freeps and creeps. Amphoras (talk) 08:32, 20 June 2011 (EDT)

Question regarding quest infoboxes

I have been adding some of the freep quests that were missing (and will attempt to add all there are left), but just noticed I was using Template:Infobox Quests instead of Template:Infobox MP Quest (for comparison: Quest:Gifts from Hoarhallow - existing quest VS. Quest:Defence of Tirith Rhaw - quest I added). Since those are freepside quest I was wondering if I should simply keep using the normal quest infobox; or rather use the one for MP (I think the regular quest infobox looks better but that's just my 2c) --Tharondir (talk) 23:29, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

The Infobox MP Quest Template designates it as MP and it shows that distinction by using a different box than the one used normally for non-MP quests. -- Starbursty (talk) 23:42, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
I think the original intent was to make Monster Play items distinct at a glance from non Monster Play.
The entire MP section was created "in the beginning" and then left to decay.
When I did my update to the Moors back in 2011, the material was horribly out of date -- then -- with large chunks of information missing. Your efforts are now the first update that has taken place since the revisions in ?2013? to the map, classes and everything.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 15:15, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

U13 - update to the Moors

Monster Play is surely the most important MP article. Newbies are most likely to come here looking for reasons to head to the Moors. For this reason I'm considering re-writing the article almost entirely, with no outdated information and taking into account the Moors changes for U13. What do you think?

MoorsUpdater (talk) 18:00, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
There is no doubt that it (and other sections) need re-writing.
There are two of you "working the moors" currently - User: Tharondir being the other besides yourself.
Combine your efforts and knowledge. (I'm 4 years out of touch with the Moors!)
One thing which I know which is completely new to the Moors and which needs to be documented -- and hopefully explained, but I won't hold my breath on that.
  • As of Update 13, you can buy a Token in the LOTRO-Store for access to the Moors -- Because of the way Turbine changed the Store, I can't even look it up since I'm a Lifetime Player and have unlimited access to the Moors. Although I have to check from my non lvl 95 toon.
Similarly, the token provides "scaled" access -- this may be identical to the Epic Battles Scaled Access; I assume that it is, but I don't know. And THAT is not particularly well (if at all) Documented. I know I have been less than impressed with how it seemed to work when I've tried it.
  • What does "scaled access" mean? (talking about Freeps here only, naturally.)
  • If you buy/barter/etc. gear from Glen Varig, what happens when you leave the Moors? Does it just pop off your toon into your inventory? If your bags are full what happens?
There are probably other things, but they are right off the top of my head.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:26, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Indeed, you do seem slightly out of touch ;) There is NOT a token for access, that's a common misunderstanding. It costs 20 Mithril Coins for 6 hours of access, counted in game-time. Level 20s and above can buy access. They get scaled using the same tech. as Big Battles, indeed. As for the gear, I'm not a gear sort of person, so I'm not too sure on the details of how it works myself!
MoorsUpdater (talk) 19:07, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Ok, duh. Just re-read the U 13 Release Notes:

Moors level scaling and free player access

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 23:29, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Rewrite seems to be a good idea. I can provide mostly freepside info (LTA VIP account) and aim to include basic stuff like quests, npcs and armour sets alongside of the rewrite to in the end have all of the moors pages up to date with lvl95 info.--Tharondir (talk) 06:38, 7 May 2014 (UTC)


Planned additions

  • I suggest adding some images to the Monster Play article to make it easier to read and look nicer. I'll try to take some fitting screenshots. --Tharondir (talk) 22:35, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Completion of adding and cleaning up freep quests: 90% -- I am almost done. --Tharondir (talk) 13:33, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
DONE! --Tharondir (talk) 13:55, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
  • My next project will be reworking the articles for the five keeps (Tol Ascarnen, Tirith Rhaw, and so on) to include two expandable tabs to show detailed information about the NPCs and quests when the freeps/creeps respectively hold the keep. --Tharondir (talk) 13:33, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
DONE! --Tharondir (talk) 13:55, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Now onto adding the remaining freep NPCs and PVP armour sets. This will be a large chunk of work but here I go. --Tharondir (talk) 13:55, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Keep up the good work!
Just to satisfy my own curiosity -- do the "Murder Holes" and the related quests and such still exist? Sapience made a comment about them on one of the Hobbits to Isengard Twitch runs that implied that people were NOT utilizing them anymore?
BTW, I just tossed the Character Screen "button" onto the Monster Play page.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 15:41, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Please verify verbiage added to: Bert Goldenleaf for the Ettenmoors entry -- if it is reasonable/correct it needs to be added to the other 3 Ettenmoors Stable Masters.
The murder holes still exist and are (at least on my server) almost always constructed as soon as a keep changes sides (mostly because the quests reward Commendations but also for the keep quest traits that award the travel skills for monster players. I would be disappointed if they were removed. --Tharondir (talk) 21:03, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
NPCs are all DONE!
PvMP Armour Class Sets will be completed today or tomorrow. --Tharondir (talk) 13:29, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
DONE! --Tharondir (talk) 13:04, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
  • What to do next: I suggest cleaning up remaining bits and pieces like:
  • Dâr-gazag - this article is kind of a mess, a lot of NPCs are missing
  • Gramsfoot - add the new Mithril Vendors
  • MP Skills, some are not shown in the overview articles such as Piercing Claws does not show up in Warg Stalker Skills
  • The Delving of Frór needs its mobs checked and updated, and the new entrances should be marked on the map and explained
  • Take a look at various neutral creatures. Thistledown Charger is a good example. Stats need to be lvl95.
  • Grothum - maybe draw a nice map for the village? Article definitely needs an update.
  • Freep Raiding/Grouping and other advice/guide topics? Not sure if I can come up with something there
  • The Backdoors at TA, TR and Lugz need explanation - maybe their own article
--Tharondir (talk) 13:05, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Categories
I have put all existing NPCs, both freep and creep, into categories that sort them by rank. This way I could double-check to add the lvl95 stats and corresponding loot to each NPC. There are still a few creep NPCs missing, I'll take a trip to Dâr-gazag soon(tm) to add them. I'll rewrite the keep article as I go along. --Tharondir (talk) 12:33, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Next up would be the Delving of Frór and its many creatures - I want to change their template to the MP Mob Template wherever this is not yet the case. Also, a lot of them need lvl95 stats. My warg will have a lot of sneaking to do. --Tharondir (talk) 12:33, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
DONE! ALL Ettenmoors creatures, including the Delving ones, have been looked at. I put the delving ones into both the Ettenmoors Creatures category as well as into their own Delving of Frór Creatures category. All Mobs now use the MP Mob Template and have lvl95 stats. The Dâr-gazag article is next. --Tharondir (talk) 16:17, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
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