User talk:Belov7

Welcome to Lotro-Wiki!

Hello, Belov7, and welcome to Lotro-Wiki, the Lord of the Rings Online wiki! Thank you for your contributions, and we heartily encourage you to keep it up!

Some useful pointers:

Please read our Code of Conduct.
Please check out the site Guidelines.
Come chat with us on Discord: Lotro-Wiki discord server.
Beginner's Guide to Editing is a good place to start if you are new to wiki editing.
Check out the Community Portal for some useful editors' links.
The Things to do page has lots of things to keep you busy!
If you have any specific questions or comments about an article, just click the Discussion tab at the top to take you to the "Talk page", and add your ideas there.
When commenting on Talk pages, please put ~~~~ (four tildes) at the end. This will automatically be replaced by your name and the date.
If you have any general questions or comments, ask in the Contributors' Corner.
Please set your timezone in your user preferences. Some articles will use that to display times in your local timezone.

We also encourage you to take a moment and edit your user page (click the User Page tab above):

Just a couple of lines to tell us about yourself and your interests. It's a good way to practice editing!
Any information about your characters should be created on separate pages. To create your character pages, click here: Create new character

We hope you enjoy editing here!

Welcome

Hello Belov7

First of all, thanks for your recent contributions. I wanted to give you some general advice on uploading images. I assume you followed our guide Help:Images, since your images are in the correct format and look really good. However, you should always try to categorize images to keep everything structured. For example, I added your Caparison of the Forest Spring image to Category:War-steed Body Images.

If you want to ask anything, feel free to do so on this talk page or another one, or join our Discord.

Kind Regards (RoyalKnight5 (talk) 17:12, 16 May 2021 (UTC))

I will try to find category names for images. But I'm not familiar with the full list of categories and I'm afraid that I won't be able to find a category for each image. Belov7 (talk) 17:34, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

No worries, more experienced editors can help you. I also learn new syntax and new parts of the wiki every once in a while.(RoyalKnight5 (talk) 06:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC))

Image sizes in location pages

Hi Belov, I see you are updating many location pages, and adding images, which is greatly appreciated. I also see you are change the size of the banner image, at the top of the page, from 600 to 400. You may not be aware there is a boilerplate layout, and these ones are set at 600. You can find the boilerplates under help pages on the left. The locations ones is https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Boilerplate:Landmarks. It also has gallery section. We try hard as editors to be fairly consistent in presentation. Keep up the work, and be mindful of the boilerplates. Be safe. Noddi (talk) 10:12, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi. Are you sure about 600px? Some of the pictures that were inserted before me are 400px in size. Which roughly corresponds to the height of the Infobox to the right of them. 600px is much larger than the Infobox height and creates a lot of empty space around it. Also, different images have different proportions. The number 600px only limits the width of the image, and if the image is much smaller than the print screen height, it will be the same size as at 400px. In general, I suggest using a different value for images with different proportions. So that the images are not much larger than the infobox, to the right of them. Belov7 (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

City Stables Interior. Oh come on dude. You yourself create pages with a 400px banner and specially wrote to me about 600px in order to have fun? Belov7 (talk) 16:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure why the width of the image should be related to the height of the infobox. But anyway, the size of the images is a judgement call, based on the fact that the vast majority of users are looking at the wiki on a Windows PC while they play LOTRO. Screen sizes have gotten bigger over the years, so maybe it's time to increase our "standard width", but I certainly wouldn't decrease it. Any such change would require a discussion first, of course. Welcome and thanks for your contributions. --Thurallor (talk) 03:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Many banner images, at the top of the page, are already 400px before my edits. I don't understand what you want from me. Belov7 (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I will let Noddi speak for him/herself, but I would just request that you don't reduce the sizes of any existing images, and if you're going to add any new banner images, please make them 600px wide. (The height can vary based on the aspect ratio of the image.) --Thurallor (talk) 05:01, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Cooperation

Hello, and thank you for you edits. I would like to ask you for more cooperative approach with other editors. For example your recent edits on item pages removing the nonexistent images, but keeping the Gallery heading which is than empty. I'm not sure what is the goal there, but there is probably many pages like that. Similarly the location images. There are many inconsistencies like these on the wiki, if you notice one, it is in general better option to start a discussion about unified approach. You can start the discussion on an appropriate talk page, or you can also join us on discord - link is in the Welcome message. --Drono (talk) 09:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I removed links to non-existent files from pages that had not been updated for many years. The existence of these links will not encourage anyone to add relevant images, because the Wanted files page has over a thousand required files. It is unlikely that such a person will view a thousand lines on the Wanted files page? The Wanted files page can be used more efficiently if it has a much smaller number of necessary files (and really necessary, and not updated many years old sets). A person interested in adding images can always go to the corresponding page and add the image to the empty gallery. Indeed, your wiki does not have a uniform approach to the size of the banner image, at the top of the page (they are of different sizes on different pages). You'd better discuss it among yourself and start correcting the situation and bring the banner image, at the top of the page, to a single size. Belov7 (talk) 10:10, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

"Your wiki"... "You'd better discuss it among yourselves"... Do you not also consider this your wiki and want to contribute to such discussions? We're all part of one collaborative team. But we do raise issues with each other quite often, so you'd better get used to that. It's all in the interest of making a better wiki; it's nothing personal. --Thurallor (talk) 10:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I've been uploading pictures for several days. I haven't figured it out yet. Some people came running to claim my wall. And I see that these same people themselves put different meanings in different places. Well, you don't like the size of the picture - take it, change it. Why climb to me? I don't want to participate in discussions, it's better to spend this time adding information to the wiki. It's you without me. I would take part in the voting, with several options. Are you arranging voting here or just discussions? Belov7 (talk) 10:37, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure by what clue you decide which images are relevant and which not. Rather than removing the links to the images, much better approach would be to upload them. My point also was you kept the gallery tag with the heading there, so the pages now have empty heading, which is not desirable either.

This is not my wiki, the wiki is a community project and all the contributors are volunteers. I appreciate your contributions, but in order for the wiki to prosper we need to discuss and agree on some guidelines. They are written on the Help pages and/or implemented in the templates and preloads. If we want to change some of it there needs to be a discussion and agreement, otherwise we will be just editing over each other.

Lastly there is lot of work to improve the wiki, people focus on different parts and might not have time to do everything. It's a team effort and requires communicating. --Drono (talk) 10:48, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I cannot load these images, these items drop randomly in low-level locations. Anyone can upload their own image at any time and enter its name into the empty gallery. It's easier than writing a gallery from scratch.

Well, we discussed it, had an empty conversation, so what? Everyone remained unconvinced. How will the decision be made? Belov7 (talk) 11:00, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

If you can not improve something why are you editing it than? And btw you can view any item using plugins like Item Treasury or Compendium.

The gallery is already on lot of other item pages, and is defined in the Boilerplate:Item, just need to copy paste.

I would not call the conversation empty, or finished... --Drono (talk) 11:21, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

This wiki has some "conventions" that may not be the same as for other wikis you have worked on. In particular:

"The existence of these links will not encourage anyone to add relevant images" -- on the contrary, the idea is that having broken file links will prompt people to upload the file whenever they look at the page, and make it easier/quicker to do so.
"because the Wanted files page has over a thousand required files. It is unlikely that such a person will view a thousand lines on the Wanted files page?" -- we don't add the broken links for the purpose of adding them to the Wanted Files page. We add them so people will see them when viewing the articles.
"The Wanted files page can be used more efficiently if it has a much smaller number of necessary files (and really necessary, and not updated many years old sets)" -- There are no "really necessary" files on the Wanted Files page. We don't use it that way. Any "really necessary" files are uploaded when the relevant page is created, while it is under construction.
"A person interested in adding images can always go to the corresponding page and add the image to the empty gallery." -- True. But having a broken File link there can make it easier for inexperienced users to figure out how to add a file.
"Indeed, your wiki does not have a uniform approach to the size of the banner image, at the top of the page (they are of different sizes on different pages)." -- This isn't Wikipedia. We don't have people working full time on developing and enforcing policies. If it's important, someone will go through and fix all of the noncompliant articles, but that is a "project". If it's a significant amount of work and a low priority, it may never happen. --Thurallor (talk) 11:39, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I do not think that it worsened anything. Here is the gallery before (non-clickable and without red text):

But after:

I don't see much difference, only the Wanted files page has fewer lines. And if you haven't used this service page for its intended purpose before, maybe you should at least try to start doing it?

I did not know about the existence of plug-ins with clothes. If you have them, can you upload images instead of creating broken links?

And yet, how will the decision be made? We conferred and I decided or something else? Belov7 (talk) 13:31, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

As i said, there is empty heading. You said, but its lot easier adding image. Well, its lot easier just uploading the image, why is having Wanted files page have fewer lines better, if you actually didn't solve the problem of missing image, but instead created an empty heading? In my opinion the Gallery should be either fully there as it was, or not at all.

I myself would use the Wanted files page for its intended purpose, but i am not uploading pictures to the wiki. There is lot of other stuff that i work on, and i don't have time to do everything, uploading pictures is not on my TODO list yet, maybe it will get there later.

We are making the decision here in the discussion. If needed, there is a hierarchy. --Drono (talk) 14:36, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

"I don't see much difference, only the Wanted files page has fewer lines." The filename gives an idea of the kind of image that is wanted. It's a shorthand way to exchange ideas.

It also helps new/casual contributors who are not experienced wiki editors:

If the broken file link is present, users can click the link and be taken to a page with a simple UI for uploading the image.
If the broken file link is absent, users have to research the proper syntax for File: links, or find and copy a relevant example from elsewhere on the wiki.

--Thurallor (talk) 18:24, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

He cannot click. You don't see the unclickable name in the <gallery> and the color is black? Belov7 (talk) 17:21, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed. In such a case, I think it is appropriate to delete it, or make it into a valid file link. (But in such a case, it won't appear in Special:WantedFiles, either.) --Thurallor (talk) 19:06, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Promotion

Do you have everyone behaving inadequately on this wiki? Belov7 (talk) 08:00, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Table widths

Hi Belov7, you're being quite productive, aren't you? I noticed you changed the width of a table from "px" to %. If your goal is to make it render properly on diverse devices, I think the best units to use are "em". This essentially sizes the table in relation to the size of the font. That way, if the text fits nicely on your device, it should fit nicely on any other device regardless of resolution, font size, etc. (Individual columns can then be sized with %, if desired.) Thoughts? --Thurallor (talk) 07:16, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I changed the width of the table from "px" to % because there are 13 tiers in Metalsmith. 9 tiers use % and only part of the remaining 4 uses "px". And I strongly recommend that you, instead of pestering me with empty talk, do something useful and bring the remaining articles to a single form. Belov7 (talk) 08:02, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not the focus of my activities, and I have plenty to keep me busy. If you don't tone down the gratuitous hostility though, you are going to get banned. I'm through dealing with you, good luck. --Thurallor (talk) 09:41, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks and Promotion

Thanks for all your hard work on the recipe pages they are looking so much better. I've gotten to see a lot of the changes as I am one of the admins that helps patrol ninja edits on the site. We appreciate that you have been reaching out to coordinate updates on the ingredient packs and other items on the talk pages. Communication like this really helps us all work together to make the wiki a better place. Once I get done with the Azanulbizar stuff I'll chip in and help on the Universal Ingredients as I have all crafts at max. I have promoted you to Editor and look forward to seeing your continued updates. Thanks again. :) Eldalleth (talk) 21:22, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks. Can i create a template like this - Template:User en, Template:Babel ? (for use on my page) Belov7 (talk) 22:40, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Those do look handy. I'm not as familiar with templates so have reached out in Discord to the other admins for more information. I will definitely let you know or one of them will as soon as we have an answer. With us heading into weekend may be day or so. If you ever want to join the discord (I know not everyone likes to use that format) there is a link on the left side bar of the wiki. It's a great way to get more immediate feedback generally, but if just keeping it on the wiki is easier thats also fine. I just like to give people options. :) Have a good weekend. Eldalleth (talk) 23:17, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

I just heard back from the other admins and if I'm understanding correctly your just wanting to basically mimic the function of those in a template. Not wanting the extension for them installed, correct? If your just wanting to create template for use on your page that is fine :) Thanks for asking. Eldalleth (talk) 02:56, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, these templates will be used on my page. Well, they can also be used by other people at will on their page. Belov7 (talk) 12:23, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey I just wanted to say the templates turned out well. However you may get notice of the template and or categories, being moved and edited by an admin as the Capitalization isn't within the Wiki Guideline's. This is a helpful article you might find handy to learn more about how we use capitalization on the wiki. Help:Spelling and Punctuation I've needed to refer to it myself a few times before.

Also when you get a spare moment no rush, you will need to create documentation for the template here is the guidelines on how to do that Template:Documentation. If you have any trouble figuring out what is needed on that please feel free to reach out to Thurallor on his talk page as he is very familiar with templates. As always feel free to reach out with any questions and we are glad to help. Eldalleth (talk) 07:14, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

<-- reordered based on sequence -->

You're welcome to create new Userbox templates, but please use the existing Template:Userbox in their definition. Also, they need to be documented and added to the list on the Category:Userbox templates page. You should just be able to mimic what has been done before, but if you need help, just ask. --Thurallor (talk) 08:47, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Your Template: Userbox looks different from the wikipedia template. Do I need to fix your Template: Userbox to be like wikipedia or will I leave my working template alone? Belov7 (talk) 17:23, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Userbox-level template uses Wikipedia's Userbox template, which is identical to ours. --Thurallor (talk) 20:42, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

If they are identical, why then do they look different?

en-1	This user can contribute with a basic level of English.

en-1

This user can contribute with a basic level of English.

Belov7 (talk) 21:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

It's got the same parameters; in that sense, it is identical. You don't have to create a Template:Userbox-level if you don't want to, but you do have to use our Template:Userbox~~, or I will delete your templates~~. --Thurallor (talk) 21:51, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Are my templates interfering with someone? Why would you delete them? Belov7 (talk) 21:57, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Why did you ask before creating them? I would assume it's the same reason. -Thurallor (talk) 00:27, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

I asked permission to create a template because I know there are people on this wiki who put a lot of psychological pressure on newbies. And in general, on your wiki the principle is widespread: I don’t do it myself and I won’t let others do it. Which very much scares off new members. The template is not working correctly, or did you come to me again to interfere with editing? Belov7 (talk) 00:57, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello Belov7, I just wanted to welcome you and thank you for your edits. Your comment above about the psychological pressure on newbies is alarming and clearly something we need to work on, and for that I want to apologize. --Lotroadmin (talk) 05:00, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your kind words. I hope in the future there will be fewer unreasonable claims and more users will express their opinions regarding the changes on the wiki. Belov7 (talk) 16:07, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Composing a response and hopefully clear up some very poor miscommunication. Please be patient as it takes time to formulate. I'd HIGHLY recommend joining all of us on discord. There would be a faster response time and reaction time to stop what has happened above. Rogue (talk) 22:48, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

CLOSING THIS SECTION --- Belov I sent you a PM on discord in regards to what transpired here and hopefully will clear up some of the miscommunication about your template. I believe both Eldalleth and Skunark have spoken about your interactions with the user above and do not feel it necessary to discuss further. Please check discord and we can speak more if needed. Thanks! Rogue (talk) 23:57, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

One week ban

Belov7,

Your behavior on the discord wiki-template channel is unacceptable and has earned you a week ban. Future behavior will lead to a permanent ban on both discord and the wiki. Please review the following articles:

--Lotroadmin (talk) 19:52, 17 July 2021 (UTC)