Talk:Legendary Items

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The start

Ok, it needs a LOT more work, but I've got a good portion of it done. I don't know how to delete this page once I'm finished, but when I finish, I intend to replace the entire Legendary Items page with this one. If this page needs to be moved so that it's not a publicly-searchable page, that's cool. I don't know how to do that. However, if you don't mind, leave a message on my talk page letting me know how to get to it so I can continue to edit this page.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Perfectapproach (Contribs • User Talk) at 11:39, 14 August 2015.

Review

Sorry I took so long getting around to looking at this - RL can be a pain sometimes :)
The article looks quite impressive.
I see no particular issue with any of the tables except for the fact that the Legacy Tier Indicators definitely goes up to six!
- T6
  • The other comment I would make is that there should be some wording in the Getting Started section to the effect that:
  • You cannot dual-wield Legendary Items - if you are a class that can use two melee weapons at once, only the main-hand weapon can be a Legendary Item. This means you cannot use a crafted spear and still use a Legendary Weapon, as a spear must be in the main-hand slot as well.
(crap, I just noted that I didn't update that quest's rewards with my Beorning!)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 17:16, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
Now that I'm looking at the original article, maybe the answer is to simply integrate much of the "Overview" text.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 17:21, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Re: Review

Quoted with replies:

  • You cannot dual-wield Legendary Items - if you are a class that can use two melee weapons at once, only the main-hand weapon can be a Legendary Item. This means you cannot use a crafted spear and still use a Legendary Weapon, as a spear must be in the main-hand slot as well.

It's actually already in there, in the first paragraph under "Getting Started". It's wordy though. What you're REALLY saying to me is that "Tim, it was hard to find, so I missed it. Maybe you need to make it more obvious." And I agree! So I'll get on that.

This is actually already in there, under the "How to Obtain" section. This section is pretty far down on the page. I felt like there were 2 competing themes: "What are they?" and "How do I get one?". I had to decide which to put first, and I figured that "What are they?" is a more important (and therefore, the first) question to answer. The Chapter 10 quest isn't mentioned in the rewrite at all though, so I'll get that in there. It might also be nice to know what quest bestows the first legendary bridle, but I don't know the answer.

  • Now that I'm looking at the original article, maybe the answer is to simply integrate much of the "Overview" text.

That's actually what I did. All of the stuff that's in the Overview, I snipped out and put into their relevant sections below. For example, in the Overview, it's mentioned that an older-aged weapon is better. On the Scratch Pad, there's a section dedicated to LI Ages. This was one of the main reasons I rewrote the page; there was so much information in multiple/incorrect places, and I wanted to sort it all out and put it all in its proper place.

I'll make the requested changes, and I'll "flip the switch" this weekend.

--Perfectapproach (talk) 00:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh yeah, almost forgot... with the Legacy Tier graphic... Hmmm... yeah, it's gonna be some work to fix that. The problem is that the graphics for T1-T5 are 1 single graphic, and then the T6 graphic is separate. I can make a table that just slaps T6 at the bottom, but... eh... that's hokey. It'll do for a quick fix for now, but it would be better to have either 6 separate graphics (1 for each tier) in a table, or 1 single image that incorporates the 6th tier with the rest. I didn't put that graphic up there in the first place though.  :-/ I'll sort something out.

--Perfectapproach (talk) 00:58, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Ugh... throwing that Tier 6 graphic in at the bottom is a nightmare. It would be better to just leave it as is for now, and rework the graphic.

--Perfectapproach (talk) 01:08, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Pages moved

I've moved the original Legandary Items page to Legendary Items (old)
and moved Li sandbox to be the Legendary Items page.
I've left the under-construction tag in place.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:27, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

This is beautiful.

It needs some minor tweaks here and there, but it looks fantastic. Thanks for the assist with the topTable alignment, and the grammar.

--Perfectapproach (talk) 20:55, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
In the Crystals of Remembrance section, there's a bad link for a "small crystal of remembrance." No such item exists on LOTROWIKI, and I tried asking both in-game and googling it, no results for such an item. Does anyone know if such an item exists? Balorgor (talk) 22:12, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
I was making the same search also with nil results (definitely not in the store). The Item existed on the old page, and as far as I can tell never existed on the Wiki. So, I would just say, drop it.
I suspect it is one of those items which "should exist" but never made it into the game. When Bullroarer comes back up, we can check to see if it exists on Bullroarer - which is possible.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 00:51, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Has anyone tried looking in the lotro compendium plugin? I don't have it installed, but someone who does should find be able to find out pretty quickly if it still exists or not (or if it was ever made in the first place). Balorgor (talk) 00:59, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
"small crystal of remembrance" doesn't exist. I have added all the items from U16.2 in LOTRO Item Database and there is only "Lesser Crystal of Remembrance" ("%crystal%remembrance" to search in the edit box for Item Name)
--Castorix (talk) 01:52, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Halted XP

In the Advancement and Reforging section it's noted that "if the character has an item equipped that prevents the acquisition of additional character experience, Legendary Items will also stop acquiring experience." While this may (?) be true for some items, the Stone of the Tortoise, probably the most commonly used item to halt XP gain, does not stop IXP gain. From my console: "Your mighty blow defeated the Shakh-hai Leader. You've earned 268 item XP. You are not earning any experience at this time." So I'd like to change that comment or at least add a qualifying note that in some cases at least you earn IXP while XP is halted. Ffereton (talk) 15:39, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Image, cut and use for in-game references (new LI system Oct 13 2021)

This is images from chat from the first day, before the hotfix of the new LI system. Note the levels of the items, most are 121, the highest level usable at that time, a couple are 51, either default, or because the person who was using it was low level. The character looking at it, for scaling purposes is 121. Acatlover2 (talk) 02:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

That screenshot should not be used to get icons and such from it because it's a JPG, which is a lossy image format. It is better to take original quality screenshots and save them in a lossless format, such as PNG. See Help:Images#Capturing_a_lossless_image for more information. Silver hr (talk) 07:00, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Updating using other websites

I added a list of external links under Conversion / See Also. This is not standard for Lotro Wiki. So here are some guidelines for using external links to update Lotro Wiki.

We should confirm in game before we update information here. It makes us slower but trusted. We don't post spoilers but if there is a gotcha, or bug, we post a mildly phrased warning about that. Such as "be careful of..." and "the release notes (link if possible) say it will be fixed soon." Please do NOT take the images from other websites and post them here ever. Just make a new one. Please don't copy paste other's words or tables here. Write it in your own words as a contribution to this site. Thank you for helping out! Acatlover2 (talk) 02:45, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Character Level vs Item Level vs Tracery Level | Rarity vs Quality

What an amazing job you've done on getting the new system set out so clearly so early!

I tried to look at the new LI page from the viewpoint of players who have (a) little or no knowledge of the old LI system; or (b) have some knowledge of the old system albeit under character level 100 (therefore little or no knowledge of the essence system on which the mechanics of the tracery system are built).

The following jumped out at me immediately in the new version:

  1. The page refers to "Tracery Level" and "Item Level". This left me thinking that one of them seems to be "Character Level". It would help if these terms are decided and then used consistently throughout the wiki wherever LIs are mentioned. This matter causes a LOT of confusion! "Level' is used by SSG in too many ways not to be clear about which level we are referring to and in the past we've had to use "level to equip" (minimum/maximum), "item level" etc. Now we have tracery level, character level (which is min/max level to equip?) and the levels are no longer min/max but ranges.
  2. The use of the word "quality" for "rarity" seems to be the wrong way round. I suggest that the first mention of "Rarity" might mention that this is equivalent to "quality" but the term "Rarity" should then be used in all other references. In general, when trying to understand these systems or trying to explain them to others, it really helps if the terms used by SSG in the design is used throughout. Where those terms have the same or similar words, it helps if the wiki uses consistent phrases to refer to them.

Hope this is helpful. I haven't suggested or tried to edit as I think the new page is amazing and is obviously a work in progress so you may already have seen the points I raise. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fatefoot on 16 October 2021 Apologies for breaking convention by not signing... --Fatefoot (talk) 15:10, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

I think this is a good suggestion. And it made me look closely at the wording. What confuses me is the phrase "tracery range" which starts off at 45-95. This would suggest it's equal to item level since the 'item level' of a level 51-85 legendary item's tracery can be a maximum of 95. I think? Item level, is modified by Enhancement Runes, on a per-tracery basis. I didn't understand why the bottom of the LI level range was so long until I thought about this. It's to allow people to keep and equip alts with leftover materials because leveling below level 85 is so fast. If someone has more insight into what 'tracery range' really means, exactly, I'd be grateful for the insight, both as a player and to help the wiki. Acatlover2 (talk) 08:15, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
The tracery range is basically required character level. If your character level is not in the range you should not be able to slot the tracery, however if you had it slotted and leveled out of the range, you should be still able to use the LI, just wont get the bonus from the tracery.
Quality vs Rarity, i have actually not seen ssg use rarity. Not sure how the quality term got established, but they also use this term in the game files. --Drono (talk) 14:56, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Rarity I got this term from the SSG dev Article Your New Legendary Items Explained! which seems to define the term as applying specifically to Traceries "The primary bonuses of a Tracery increase with its rarity, while the secondary stat bonuses increase with its level. Additionally, rarer Traceries of the same type offer higher benefits than their more common counterparts. You can see the rarity of a Tracery by looking at the color of its icon: ... Uncommon: Yellow ..." etc As this was one of the first definitive statements from the devs about the Legendary Item revamp just before release (limited though it is), it seemed to me that they were effectively defining "Rarity" as a term which applies specifically to Traceries to avoid confusion with other "qualities" applied to other items --Fatefoot (talk) 15:10, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Sadly the people that are writing these are not very consistent. In my opinion just because they used rarity this time, doesn't mean we should use it. I dont understand how is it different from quality and how is it specific for traceries. By the way the indicator of quality (or rarity if you prefer), is not the icons, as they in many cases does not show it. Example even right in next sentence where they say Word of Power Traceries have own color indications. However the color of the name can be used reliably to determine the quality.
Also found out that where the word quality is used in-game. When you are a fellowship leader you can set the loot rule and loot quality.

--Drono (talk) 06:49, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

To me, both Rarity and Quality are understood to mean the same thing. But I think developers think in terms of rarity because they live in a world of designing loot tables and providing sufficient challenge for the rewards. And players think of quality because they live in a world with tiered content that gives better quality loot if you do the harder tier. Quality is clear to me, because it relates to loot rules chosen by players in fellowships. And rarity is clear because it relates to how much less frequently players have a chance of a random drop of an HQ item. Until Fatefoot pointed it out, I didn't realize I was mentally redefining "rarity" when seen in LoTRO release notes to mean "loot quality." Because the concepts are so similar, does it matter which word we use exactly? Acatlover2 (talk) 10:28, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Tracery Level Range

Update to Tracery level, character level et al: I added the Tracery Barter Names to the table. So, when you appraise, your character level will determine the tracery level range TLR you receive.

Your tracery barter tokens, such as Shattered Morgul Tracery, will have one of those names on it. The TLR is the range of character levels, at which the tracery can be used. The level that you can obtain those barter tokens is more limited. Once you qualify for the next level up, that's what you get from appraisal.

Looking for other ways to obtain traceries, I tried a couple of things... running Carn Dum didn't even give me chests for bosses (with a level 130), running School and Library at 106 didn't drop even one tracery or enhancement rune. Neither did Glingant at 106. Glingant didn't even drop one solitary equipment item even. So, running things together with a mixed level group will not provide LI equipment for your alts. That's highly unusual for LOTRO.

It's important to know what your tracery level range is as you level because it tells you when you should consider upgrading your tracery type (from Rohirrim to Gondorian for instance). But once you have it, the level range is wider.

You can use a 106 tracery until level 120. You can upgrade to the next tier of tracery at level 116 if you have the barter items needed. But let's say you don't want to. It's currently uncertain what happens when your character gains level 121 to your 106 tracery. For reference, [https://forums-old.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?689903-Design-Fail-in-the-Traceries-of-New-LIs-Levelling-up-can-be-a-downgrade&p=8099638#post8099638 and https://forums-old.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?690277-Question-for-the-Dev-Team-Concerning-Traceries&p=8103246#post8103246 People on the forums going back and forth on whether the traceries get deactivated or not. Acatlover2 (talk) 01:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

A detail but an important one for simplifying this system, in my mind. I think about the TLR's minimum level as important because it matches the Enhancement Rune's level. A level 101 enhancement rune can only be used with a tracery that has a TLR that begins with 101. This is because the maximum enhancement will fall in the range of the tracery with the matching minimum level. That is, a Level 101 tracery can only be enhanced by a level 101 rune. Don't confuse the reforge level with the tracery or enhancement rune level. Reforging will give you another slot at 105. If you choose to fill that slot right away, the tracery you put there will be 101. If you wait until level 106, you can put a 106 tracery there. Consider also that if you're questing, your quest rewards may be far behind your weapon level. Previous level caps have caused a shift toward questing in lower level areas. Consider using a Stone of the Tortoise Acatlover2 (talk) 18:49, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
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