User talk:Laineth

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It looks like you're making good headway on the new cooking recipes! If you have any questions or need help, don't hesitate to ask. -- Elinnea (talk) 00:07, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Being completely new to the editing side of things (is this how I'm supposed to reply to your message? very different from the typical inbox!), I'll stick to practicing with items and recipes before I attempt anything like a recipe index. The main issue so far is crafting icons. Shall I upload them myself with Help:Images for a guide, or should I leave it up to someone else? Thanks Elinnea! -Laineth (talk) 00:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes indeed, you're responding quite right. If you would like to upload the icons, that help page should walk you through it. The main things to remember with icons are to save them as .png format, and to make sure they're 32x32 pixels in size. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself it's fine to leave it for other editors, but you might as well take a stab. There are not many mistakes that can't be cleaned up by deleting or moving or uploading new versions of files. Wikis are forgiving that way. :) - Elinnea (talk) 00:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Will do! Speaking of mistakes, I just realized I forgot part of a recipe title while creating Item:Large_Westemnet_Recipe. I created another one without the missing word, but for future reference, can a URL be changed? -Laineth (talk) 01:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes, you can change its name by Moving the page. (It should be under the little drop-down arrow along the top of the page.) -- Elinnea (talk) 01:29, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Do the recipes really say "an Westemnet"? That seems like a copy/paste error on Turbine's side, and might be something to /bug, next time I'm in game... -- Elinnea (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Ah, it was hiding, sneaky Move. :) Just checked ingame and it does look like a copy/paste error. I bugged it and fixed the wiki recipes. How do I get a recipe (e.g. Item:Bag of Westemnet Coffee Grounds Recipe) to say "Westemnet Craft XP Earned" instead of "9 Craft XP Earned"? Thank you in advance! -Laineth (talk) 05:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
The Crafting template needed to be updated to recognize tier 9. You can check the history of that page if you're curious what I did. -- Elinnea (talk) 13:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


Hi there1 You've been doing great work lately, so I'm bumping you up to Ninja status. This primarily gives you the ability to patrol others' edits (which you can feel free to do or not as you like; Elinnea and I usually keep up with this pretty well), perform edit rollbacks, and automatically bypass the CAPTCHA when adding external links, etc. Carry forth, soldier. :) Sethladan 19:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm getting the hang of creating items/pages and managed to edit a couple of templates without blowing anything up (yet), so I feel like slightly less of a newb. :) When is a rollback appropriate, as opposed to undo? Thank you Seth! -Laineth (talk) 04:25, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
I know the feeling! I'm still convinced I'm going to blow up the wiki one of these days. A rollback lets you undo all of the latest edits by a single person at one time. I mostly use it in cases of vandalism, or if I see somebody inserting false information. Or else if I've been tinkering with a page and I realize I've gone all wrong, I'll roll back all of my changes - useful for template testing at Template:Sandbox, for example. Wikipedia has some good documentation on these things: Help:Reverting. Although we are not the same as Wikipedia, they do have some useful information sometimes. -- Elinnea (talk) 14:23, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
You make very good work with the crafting pages (for a "newb" :-) ). It's very helpful! A small thing: can you also add the Item Level (it's a new feature), when you create a new one ( Example: Low-grade Eorlingas Ingot )? Thank you. If you need help for something, ask me. Barny (talk) 15:39, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
@ Elinnea: Thanks for the explanation. Is there an "undo rollback" in case I accidentally click on a rollback link?
@ Barny: Will do, and I'll go back and fix that for my existing items. Thanks for letting me know! -Laineth (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2013 (UTC) P.S. I added the item level for Large Westemnet Repast but it doesn't show up in the tooltip; not sure which template(?) to update here.
Template: Reputation Item does not have "Item_level" implemented. I haven't checked any Rep items since the update, so I don't know if they use the same "style" as other items now seem to use. Someone (Barny?) needs to check and then add Item_level to that template also.
And for what it's worth, "Item Level:" should probably be added to the boilerplate as well... Item:Gnarled Ilex Branch for an example
  • BTW, if you are working crafting "stuff" please check out Talk:Forester - I've gotten started on the "mass update" issue related to the change in T6 Resources.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:54, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Item Level Parameter

(stuck in a new header)

  • Added "Item Level" parameter to the Template: Reputation Item and "updated" the doc file as well :) -- that "Guild Size" is a WEIRD parameter. I see where it comes from, but I have no idea what it means.
  • And for the record, does anyone have any idea what "Item Level" really means?
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:15, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Re item level: I vaguely remember a forum thread with one of the devs (Rockx?) talking about gear and stats, will see if I can find it. I'm guessing an item's level is an indicator of how good the stats are overall for comparing with another item (or maybe used to scale stats?). Then there are LIs; the higher the item level, the more points you can spend to increase its properties. But that's gear, not crafting ingredients, and I'm just speculating. As for helping with the crafting changes, it's on my to do list; I've been focusing on Westemnet, since that's what my characters are working on at the moment. :) -Laineth (talk) 20:12, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Here's the thread - Omen_Kaizer mentions "item level" in post 117 and post 126. -Laineth (talk) 21:56, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Interesting discussion, but I'm guessing completely obsolete now. I ran across the following set of comments earlier today, not about Item Level, but about loot tables, and how apparently there have been "big" changes since RockX was apparently "promoted" and replaced by Verizal.
At any rate, I can see where "Item Level" is probably 'coming from", just surprised that it is being "exposed" to the player base.
[QUOTE=Castorix;7016755]After some tests, it seems all the loots are the same for all instances. :rolleyes:
Tell me this is wrong, otherwise, everyone will do Faceroll School/Lib instances in an infinite loop, by going directly to bosses
(a yellow Champ can kill all adds in a few seconds in these instances, ridiculous !)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Verizal;7017024]As it stands, all instances do pull their rare drops from a common pool based on individual class needs. You have a chance to receive these rewards from all chests.
Incomparable gear has a chance to drop from the final chest, but is instead pulled from a unique list for each instance. Like the rare gear, each individual player has a chance to receive a drop.
Challenge chests will provide a guaranteed incomparable drop, which pulls from all of the available incomparable gear for all classes for a particular instance, but the rewards will be open to all players of the fellowship.
EDIT: As a side note, the 'bloat' in stats was required in order to provide a larger number of viable upgrades. With this expansion, I wanted players to be able to once again find use in uncommon and rare gear, rather than simply look for the next set of incomparables. This progression would not have been possible without the bump.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Verizal;7017346]So I'll see if I can clarify a bit more as to how things [I]should[/I] be working, just so everyone is on the same page. Regardless, I will be looking into this personally to see where things may have gone wrong.
Rare (Purple) Gear
- All chests in all instances will pull from the same pool of rare gear that is relevant to all of your classes potential roles (DPS/Tank/Heal). There are numerous options for each slot, so exact duplicates are possible, but should not be all that likely (I can't really speak for the wonders of probability however).
Incomparable (Teal) Gear
- All final chests have a chance to pull from a unique list of incomparables that is relevant to one or more of your potential roles. When I say unique list, I mean that no two instances should have the same potential loot, and you should not see a single piece of gear in more than two instances. For example:
*Instance 1 -
*Instance 2 -
*Instance 3 -
The reason behind this is that I did not want to provide the potential for all stat groupings in a single area of PvE (Instances), and instead wanted players to explore as many areas of content as possible. For instance, a Burglar looking for a heavy crit build might be able to get crit-heavy boots from instances, but only a physical mastery-heavy chest piece. To get the crit-heavy chest piece, they may need to resort to reputation or warband lootboxes. If I were going to keep incomparable rewards completely unique, given the number of instances, it would mean that most spaces would only typically have one reward and thus be less meaningful to run once the drop was received. By keeping unique lists, however, I can at least assure that all instances maintain a chance of being run, and one is not overshadowed by another simply because it is easier to reach the last chest.
- Challenge chests should contain a pull from all of the potential last chest rewards for all classes. Unlike other chests, this loot will be opened up to the fellowship as a whole. I will be looking into reasons why this might not be dropping.
In regards to stat bloat and ease of instance running, we do realize that more balance is required, and do not intend to leave things in their current state. Part of the reason that I wanted to go with this loot scheme was to account for the potential ease of instance running, so that even is a player is managing to solo their way through an instance, there is no guarantee that they will simply be handed a piece of gear that they need.
When it comes to the rating to percentage ratio, adjustments [I]were[/I] made, but it was not as drastic as I had imagined it would need to be, given the new stat groupings/allocations. We still do intend to do a full-on revision to how our caps are set up, but much of what you are seeing now will be addressed through further class revisions and adjustments to mobs that are 85+[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Verizal;7017531]In my example, you can replace the general "Chest" and "Feet" listings with a specific piece. So in the case of "greater steadfast pocket of protection", you should only ever see that specific piece drop from two instances as a particular class. If you were hoping for a dps-oriented pocket item, that would drop from two different instances.
Regarding the challenge chest, when functional, it should only be pulling from the list of items that could potentially drop in the last chest of that particular instance.[/QUOTE]

(I hate converting from vBulletin to Wiki formatting :(

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 22:22, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Re: "I hate converting..." - So don't, hahah. The links should have been informative enough; no need to bloat the page with copy-pasting. Sethladan 00:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Promotion II

Phew... updating all those Recipes for HD is tedious work. You're promoted to Editor status so I can stop patrolling your additions!!!
Thanks again and keep up the good work!
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 19:19, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
LOL, are you sure you want to stop? Jeweller, tailor, and weaponsmith need some attention, not to mention the new icons coming with Update 12.1. ;) Thanks Magill! -Laineth (talk) 03:18, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

West Rohan Quests and etc.

One thing which is ALWAYS needed -- "A second set of eyes." Not really "proofreading" but "context reading." That is to say,

  • The obvious -- is the verbiage correct, rewards, dialog, map coordinates, etc. (actual proofreading.)
  • The subjective -- for example, "Walkthrough and Notes" -- should there be any? If not, simply delete that section from the Quest rather than leave it as "Pending," when it is not really.

The current "issue" in West Rohan is Quest Gating... which quests are in fact pre-requsites; or by completing which section is a group of quests opened up. Are they listed in the correct order.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 23:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Sounds pretty straight-forward, I can get started on that with my guard soon. Regarding quest gating, is it necessary to determine the earliest a given quest becomes available, or is is it sufficient to number quests by availability and convenience/location? For example, there's a vector quest to Oter and his friend in the Stonedeans, but I haven't skipped ahead to see if these NPCs will still grant quests if you don't have "To the Stonedeans" in the quest log. -Laineth (talk) 19:21, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
This is one of those "ultimately yes" kind of answers. Without having Turbine's "storyboard" we can only guess at things. For instance, Gandalf appears at the Mileston/Fountain in Edoras with a vector quest to Aldburg ( Word from Edoras ), "sometime." It appears that this happens only after completing V3 Book 11 Chapter 10: The King Rides West, but so far we don't know when he really appears, only that he has been noted "at that particular time" by one or more toons.
Generally speaking once a vector quest like this appears, the quests in that destination are "opened." (But only if you follow the vector? We don't know, but only guess.)
Once "working an area" it is usually fairly obvious what the quest sequence is.
  • In general, each "area" (typically a Settlement) is a sequence of quests. If you look at the Category pages, you will discover that these are "rolled-up" into the Area Catgory quest listings. Or work backwards -- look at the 5 area Categories start with Category: West Rohan Quests and work downwards. At the moment, I believe I finished organizing the boiler plate for Kingstead and Eastfold, but don't think (off-hand) if I have done the other 3 as yet.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 19:08, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm starting to get the hang of creating quests. However, one issue came up recently, and I can't figure what's going on. I moved two quests to make name corrections (note the special characters) - Quest:A Summons to Magla|A Summons to Magla to A Summons to Mágla, and Edoras: Lady Eowyn's Charge to Edoras: Lady Éowyn's Charge - and updated their respective quest category pages (Middlemead and Edoras). I expected the broader quest category pages to update on their own, and thought that would take care of clearing out the "What links here" lists for the original articles, but it didn't. Is there something else I need to edit? Thank you in advance! -Laineth (talk) 21:14, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Poking my nose in while catching up on talk page gossip: It sometimes takes a while for some links to update, which is why you saw those lingering pointers to the old quest page. They've caught up now, so the old pages are safe to delete. If you encounter this in the future, one little trick to force pages like Category:Middlemead Quests to refresh their links is to do a blank edit - open up the page for editing and then hit save without making any changes - and this will more often than not solve the problem. Obviously, this is only an issue if you're in a hurry, since they'll eventually straighten themselves out, but ain't nobody got time fo' dat. ;) Sethladan 04:41, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Scholar Artifact Maps

I Found your artifact maps at Pisasa. They are pretty epic. Do you plan on adding them to the Region pages or Artifacts page? Matthew.zellmer (talk) 19:57, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I didn't know if anyone else would find them useful. The maps are rudimentary MS Paint jobs that I'd like to overhaul someday. (Bigger images, better labels, and easier updating would be nice, maybe even sorting maps by level range or crafting tier.) Something like, but I've no idea how to set that up. isn't too bad, though takes longer to load than plain ol' pictures. -Laineth (talk) 00:48, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh my! [1] where have you been all my life! This is great stuff. But don't discount your maps! Would you allow me put them on the wiki? I think there is a place for them in the Artifacts section and inside each Region. I am thinking of adding them near the bottom with the other maps. Matthew.zellmer (talk) 22:04, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Sure, if you want! But let me have a week or two, which should be enough time to make some changes to the pre-RoR maps. They looked okay on my screen, but Picasa shrank them -- the dots and labels are tiny! -Laineth (talk) 00:02, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
All 37 maps now revised and uploaded! Are you planning on linking to the album or to each image? -Laineth (talk) 03:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I was thinking of just a static display of each image. Copy from Pisasa to LOTRO each image then add them to:
As you update them in the future we can update the local versions as well, no prob. The wiki will update all the pages with the new map automatically, as long as we give it the exact same name. What do you think? Matthew.zellmer (talk) 14:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Okay, sounds good to me. I hope the maps can be useful now without squinting. :) Would it be appropriate to include them, being crafting-related, on Region pages? -Laineth (talk) 22:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Yea they probably should be in both places. I am going to add some of those awesome wiki links so we can inset them just about everywhere but have to only update them in one place. Matthew.zellmer (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Ok. That's it I think, I added them to Artifacts and each Region page. Let me know what you think. Matthew.zellmer (talk) 17:09, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Looks good, and I like what you've done with the Artifacts table! I noticed only Shattered Pitcher, Sage's Locker, and Sage's Casket show the icons of the items that may be gathered from them. Going to add a disclaimer-y word to Category: Artifact Maps to cover myself :) -Laineth (talk) 03:01, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Yea, I am working on that, there is no standard format for the resource spawns (nodes) including the artifact ones. This is on my list to fix. Matthew.zellmer (talk) 13:11, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Template Crafting

I note that you created the page which triggered my question.

Please see: Template_talk:Crafting#Status_of_Template.3F

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 00:22, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Paths of the Dead

Can you update your map Cave of the Avorrim Map.jpg to include the "The Master of Horses" in the Caves of the Avorrim. He is the link to and from the Dead Marshes.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 15:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Can do, where exactly is the Master of Horses in the cave? I didn't have a chance to look for him on Bullroarer. Laineth (talk) 23:09, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
As you enter the chamber where the other two are located if you go straight ahead to your right instead of turning left as you enter, he and his horse are there on the next platform, to your right up against the wall. Probably right behind that first square angle visible on the map.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 00:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Does that look right? -Laineth (talk) 15:18, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, looks good! Thank you!. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 16:08, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Roving Threats

Roving Threats are being fleshed out on Bullroarer... I've started to add info on the "new" Roving Threats from 15.2.3 (Build 3).
In particular see the Category:Roving Threats Quests and Roving Threat Quartermaster.
I have not yet "checked out" any of the Gondorian NPC characters, I am guessing that there will be one Quartermaster and 5 quests for each Area.
So far, as you enter each area for the first time with a level 100, you get an auto-bestowal to go see a specific quartermaster.
No idea if the past info on mobs implies many more, or different quest targets.
Assuming Turbine stays with their pattern -- there will be 5 quests per Area, and the same 2 questions for all.
  • I am planning to do Misty Mountains and Forochel quests next, and to continue to verify that the Quartermasters are all bartering the same thing. So far, yes they do.
  • I haven't really figured out what makes sense for transclusion at the moment, so I'm just throwing everything into the Category:Roving Threats Quests, so feel free to "re-organize" if you see any obvious pattern. The obvious pattern would be the Warbands but I don't know that is optimal, especially with the Quartermaster structure.
  • I assume that there are more Item: Gift-giver's Brand drops than the 3 per quest. The Gift-giver's Brand-icon.png 200 Gift-giver's Brands requirement is very high if that is the case.
  • I'm also guessing that there is/will be one or more deeds associated with these threats as things progress. Probably one deed for completing all threats in each area, and a Meta-deed or each Region. That would fit with Turbine's current patterns.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:26, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the info Magill, I'll look for the new RTs when they go live. Real life got more busy but I'll get around to them eventually. :) -Laineth (talk) 22:38, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Lol -- Cool! Deed info. I've assumed that there was one (for each region, and maybe a meta-deed) but I suppose the one needs to defeat one of these threats first -- rather than simply running KOLM on them :) (My LM is only level 65.)
Most interesting thing -- the KOLM on Gróthurs shows him to be a member of The Dead, but the quest: Roving Threat: Gróthurs the Stone Giant simply implies that he is a Stone Giant. Since he just simply stomped on my poor LM for 7K to morale, I have no idea if he has any kind of special effects or attacks which might relate to being Dead -- definitely no Dread aura. At any rate, I've /bugged the difference in the descriptions.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:31, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Looking through my screenshots, Sútmoth also has conflicting quest text and mob type (description says beast but he's an ice giant). There's a new Racial/Social deed too, slayer type IIRC. Other than Gróthurs and Vélnas, most of the RTs in Angmar and Misty Mountains seem to be pretty straightforward. -Laineth (talk) 05:28, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Duplicate Icons? for T11 - Doomfold

I was just updating an assortment of Crafting pages and noticed that you had created icons for Doomfold Recipes.
The icons for both T10 (Anorean) and T11 (Doomfold) are the same as those of T9 (Westemnet).
I guess it is a toss-up, as the Template automatically picks the icon by <tier><profession> name.
It apparently never happened for T10 (Anorean) - the couple of recipes I looked at for Anorean simply had "Westemnet<profession> in place for their icons.
At any rate, I've updated the table at: Category: Recipe Icons to include your new icons. (Only 3 missing!)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk
I got the Doomfold T11 recipe icons from the Conquest of Gorgoroth barter NPC. Then as I went through all the professions, I realized many T11 icons look the same as icons for previous tiers. (Not the first time...remember those "red" Polished Emeralds?)
Would it be better to reuse older icons or upload duplicates? Either way, if SSG does create new artwork, someone would have to replace them later.
Then there's the known issue (as of Update 21.0.2) with normal and crit item tooltips. I've been using "TBD" for the crit items, at least until that gets sorted out.
Thanks, Magill! -Laineth (talk)
I would vote for uploading new icons, even if they're duplicates. It happened once before that the same icons were used for a new tier but it turned out to be actually a bug. So they changed the icons for the higher tier, and somebody came on the wiki and uploaded a new version of that icon, so that had to be rolled back and the icon changed manually on half of the recipes and it was kind of a mess. Since they've done a couple tiers in a row with the same icon, it may be that it's intended this time and that situation might not come up again. On the other hand, it's a small set of icons anyway so I don't think it's too troublesome to have duplicates in this case. -- Elinnea (talk) 02:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Just bumping in to say Elinnea's idea seems very sensible to me. Perhaps put a note linking to this discussion in the icon's talk page so nobody accidentally consolidates both icons into one in the future. (I clean up rampant double icons often and that is something I would pay attention to if I'd ever bump into these.) --Ravanel (talk) 09:02, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I copied this discussion over to Category Talk:Recipe Icons with a request to revisit this issue. Dadwhereismom (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Removal of Lost Lore talk pages

Hi Laineth. Great job on collecting all that Lost Lore of Gorgoroth info! I have added the info you added on the talk pages of those quests to the Walkthrough & Notes section of each quest (Lost Lore of Gorgoroth: Lhingris etc.). I've added a link to the lore text underneath the Walkthrough as well. Now all the info is found on the quest pages themselves, the talk pages should be emptied (they are purely meant for discussion among contributors about the content of pages, not for the location of quest items). But first I wanted to check in with you. Are you happy with the way the info is presented on the quest pages? Let me know if anything needs to be changed, so I can go ahead with removing the talk pages. :)--Ravanel (talk) 12:37, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Ravanel, but I can't take all the credit. Someone else started collecting the lore pages text and I merely continued. Anyways, the sections look fine to me, thanks for doing that. :) Can we include Coconutcoo's helpful tip about the entrances to Kam Lagurz in Lhingris? -Laineth (talk) 19:27, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Ah, I must admit that I didn't check the complete history of each talk page; I just noticed you'd been working on them a lot. :) I didn't understand Coconutcoo's tip at first, but I think I got it. I've added their info to the quest page and double-checked the other talk pages as well before deleting them. --Ravanel (talk) 11:14, 5 November 2017 (UTC)