User talk:Amphoras

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Hi there! A belated welcome and hearty cheers for the work you're doing on character stats and mechanics. It's quite a snarl as you've said, so good on you for getting things a little more straightened out, updated, and pointed to all the right pages. :) Sethladan 18:36, 9 April 2011 (EDT)

Promoted to Ninja status! You've been working hard and doing all the right things. Keep it up. :) Sethladan 15:44, 20 April 2011 (EDT)
Thanks very much! I'll do my best :) Amphoras 15:46, 20 April 2011 (EDT)
Your bot account has bot status, to see the recent edit history of your bot account, you will have to click on the bot filter. --Lotroadmin (talk) 12:50, 7 June 2011 (EDT)
Thanks for that. Going to do a bit more testing before I use it on any proper wiki pages. Amphoras (talk) 14:03, 7 June 2011 (EDT)
Promoted again!!! Keep up the good work. --Lotroadmin (talk) 23:21, 4 July 2011 (EDT)
Thanks! Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 07:24, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Collaboration on Armour Sets

Hio! I noticed there are a few editors who have done some work on armour sets recently, and I wanted to give you guys the opportunity to collaborate more closely if you'd like. These are Aesch, Amphoras, KermitZ06, and Neum, among others. If you guys want to touch base with each other so you're all on the same page, I figure that'll help everyone's work go smoother. Also, I can set up (or you guys can) a project page specifically for Armour Sets so you have one central place to discuss/plan. Let me know if I can help with anything and keep up the good work. :) Sethladan 15:33, 10 April 2011 (EDT)

I was only adding a missing category after following a link from things to do, so probably won't be actively involved in anything more involved for now at least. Amphoras 13:40, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

Character Stats

Currently working through the Character Stats page to tidy all the terms up and add the missing ones.

  • crit/dev crit
  • offence ratings
  • incoming/outgoing healing
  • mitigation
  • resistances
  • defence
  • avoidances/partial avoidances
  • possibly regens
  • possibly tidy up the base stats at bottom of Character Stats page
  • fix all broken links on Character Stats page
  • critical defence Amphoras 13:40, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

(Quick note - you can use <s> and </s> for strikethrough if you want, and feel free to delete this. -Seth)

Ah! Thanks very much, was trying to do that earlier but the way I tried didn't work properly Amphoras 16:37, 12 April 2011 (EDT)
I noticed - I guess you worked on another wiki that had a strikethrough template? Sethladan 16:39, 12 April 2011 (EDT)
Nope, I asked Google and it gave me that on Wikipedia :P Amphoras 16:41, 12 April 2011 (EDT)
Ah, well. We're cooler. Even if we are lacking a basic guide in Mediawiki syntax... Hrm. Sethladan 16:43, 12 April 2011 (EDT)
Old conversation, but thought you might be interested in Template:S. Thanks for the idea. :) Sethladan 17:43, 21 June 2011 (EDT)
I noticed you adding that the other day. Will need to remember that one :). Amphoras (talk) 18:32, 21 June 2011 (EDT)


Going to try and add missing data for champion LIs. Before the mmorsel LI spender came out, I had been making a list of all the legacy point costs and stats for the different legacies. Hopefully I still have it saved somewhere. Amphoras 13:40, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

  • Correct DPS values for all LIs
  • Correct tactical dps values for all LIs
  • Correct tactical healing values for all LIs
  • Correct Incoming Healing values for champion runes
  • Legacy costs for major champ weapon legacies
  • Legacy costs for minor champ weapon legacies
  • Legacy costs for major champ rune legacies
  • Legacy costs for minor champ rune legacies
  • Legacy costs for major minstrel weapon legacies
  • Legacy costs for minor minstrel weapon legacies
  • Legacy costs for major minstrel book legacies
  • Legacy costs for minor minstrel book legacies

Amphoras 12:06, 15 April 2011 (EDT)


After all that if I have time, I might have a look at deeds and see if theres any rewards missing. I have which has most of the deeds in the game, so hopefully if something's missing I should have the info for it. Amphoras 13:40, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

That is one hardcore spreadsheet! Are you still updating/confirming it, as I could probably offer feedback on a few points (unless it's only things you've personally checked). What's a little hard to get from deed rewards at times in the reputation they grant, since that's (usually? always?) not listed on the log and you can miss out on the +x00 reputation message if you're already maxed with that faction. Sethladan 15:15, 12 April 2011 (EDT)
Its been a wee while since I updated it, but I'm planning to add the new deeds from the last update when I get time. I know what you mean about the rep rewards, any feedback on that or anything else would be great :). Amphoras 15:32, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

Legacy Template

Now working and at Template:Legacy.

Apply template to all current:

Hey there! I'm sorry I've been so MIA lately and hadn't responded to your questions or given feedback about all the hard work you've been doing on this legacy stuff. I was a little skeptical at first that it would work, but you've definitely pulled together a great project! From what I can see, you're getting awesome at this Mediawiki stuff and have been a great handyman around the wiki. :) Sethladan 17:59, 28 April 2011 (EDT)
Thanks, there were times when I didn't think it was going to work either, but then suddenly everything came together :). Only thing I need to work out now is how to get certain bits of information off a page for my next plan. Stuff like if an item has 23 might on it, being able to get 23 out to use on another page. If its even possible, I think that'll be a month or so away anyway after all my exams are finished. Amphoras 18:04, 28 April 2011 (EDT)
I tried updating Increased Range for Hamstring and adding a new row in Legacy Cost Progression to support what I am seeing in game. My Champion rune has the Hamstring Range legacy at minor tier 3. It's at rank 2 so i can only see the cost progression for rank 3, which is 102 - I added that to the legacy cost progression page, and tried to reference that from the hamstring range page which uses the legacy template. I took a screen shot of the data driving my changes. As this is the first time I have tried recording legacy info using the new scheme, I am not sure if I am doing it right, or if there is a problem with the templates, or what. Now that i have sort of figured out the benefits of the Scroll of Empowerment, and the advantage of having a legacy at a higher tier, I want to collect and share the info that can help us make smart decisions like where do I get the most benefit from using a scroll of empowerment after a reforge or scroll of (minor) renewal. Anyway, please have a look at the changes I made, and give me some feedback on why they did not seem to work. RingTailCat (talk) 21:19, 3 July 2011 (EDT)
What you did was right, but you also need to add the costs to Template:Legacy/Cost Table like this. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 08:53, 4 July 2011 (EDT)
I think I get the idea now. The wiki code in Template:Legacy/Cost Table implements the table show in Legacy Cost Progression. It is not obvious from looking at the Legacy Cost Progression page that more must be done. (When you visit the template page, as a wiki page, it just shows the default info.) That may be a good thing, as there is a big skill leap from being able to edit an ordinary page to editing a template. As it stands though, I found it a bit confusing, when I made a change and did not find it showing up where I expected it. Perhaps something on that page that clearly says, now go edit the template also, or wait a day or two for a Ninja or Admin or whoever to fix it for you would make it less confusing for the next person. RingTailCat (talk) 10:39, 4 July 2011 (EDT)
Hey Amphoras! I only yesterday changed my first legacies on the wiki, but I'm quite impressed by the template you've brought together! It took me some minutes to figure out how it worked, but it's great! I did find some things that need updating, and would be relieved I you could help me solve it:
I would be very grateful if you'd be able to help on these points. They're probably not too difficult for you to sort out, but I wouldn't know where to begin myself. --Ravanel (talk) 03:33, 19 January 2012 (EST)
Sorry, I've not been on recently so hadn't seen these. The second one should be reasonably easy to do. If you look at the tables how it works for legacies that go up to rank 5, it should just be a case of duplicating that with an extra column added in to make it work for legacies that go up to rank 6.
For the first one, it shouldn't be too hard to fix either. It just needs some extra parameters added to take the rating values for the higher level legacies, and the tables updated to use those instead of the current ones for those levels.
I'm really busy with uni work just now, so I probably won't have time to do it at the moment. If no one else manages to do it then I will try and update it when I get time, but I don't know when that will be. It might be another few weeks yet. Hope this helps. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 18:54, 23 January 2012 (EST)


Changing quests that use Template:Infobox Quest Banner over to Template:Infobox Quests.

List of quests using old template

Template to bind them all

I just saw your changes to the {{new}} template and I really thank you that you worked on it :). But I wanted to tell you some thing about it. One major aspect of it was, to keep it as small as possible and in the end to unify all existing templates (which means use as much shared code as possbile e.g. same text style, colour, size, etc).

  1. For example the left/right alignment: Don't put hardcoded stuff like skill-specific stuff into {{new}} but into {{skill}} and add a parameter (e.g. "alignment") to the former one. We explicitly don't want to care about the "super-template" (in this case {{skill}}) in {{new}}.
    • the alignment on the popup has to be left, otherwise you brake some stuff - I wanted to tell you, although you did that right :)
    • "popup" means "if {{FULLPAGENAME}} not equal to {{{disambigpage}}}".
  2. Text-size: Are you sure that you want to change the size of the text? As far as I remember it the text in the game has everywhere the same size/style and we want to be as close to the game as possible. So far we chose 0.85em for the popup and 1.0em for the main pages.
  3. Font-colour: We haven't decided about a specific default colour so far (that's why it was white), but - as I said above - if you think there should be a different default colour for all pages which use (direct or indirect) {{new}}, feel free to add one. I saw you chose #C3B585 as that colour. In my opinion that looks like a good default colour to start with.

I hope I didn't discourage you to continue your work, it looks quite nice so far :). If you have any questions feel free to ask, I should be around from time to time. --EoD 08:39, 23 May 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for the tips. When I created {{skill}}, I just copied over what was in Template:Skill here. The stuff I changed in {{new}} was mainly to try and make the skill pages look the same on both. Thinking about it now, it probably doesn't actually matter if they look slightly different. Its probably better that all the pages follow the same layout even if they're for different things like skills, items, etc. The text size and font colour were just copied straight from the skill template on here. I've changed {{new}} back to what it had before I made the changes for {{skill}}. Amphoras 10:16, 23 May 2011 (EDT)

Great work! --EoD (talk) 12:21, 6 October 2011 (EDT)

Esteldin Quests Category

Hi Starbursty. I noticed that you changed [[Category:Esteldin Quests]] to redirect to [[Category:Esteldín Quests]] which has been deleted. Just wondering if the Esteldin Quests one was meant to be deleted as well, or if you planning something else with it? Amphoras 18:57, 31 May 2011 (EDT)

Wasn't I just correcting the name to the correct spelling? -- Starbursty 07:24, 1 June 2011 (EDT)
I don't know. Esteldín seems to be the correct name for the settlement, but the category with that spelling was deleted, and the deletion log says "(content was: "Category:North Downs Quests {{Delete Page}}" (and the only contributor was "Starbursty"))", so I assumed you asked for it to be deleted, but you had also created a redirect to that spelling from Esteldin with a normal "i". I just wasn't sure if both were meant to be deleted, or if the Esteldín one should have stayed and the Esteldin one been deleted? Amphoras 08:18, 1 June 2011 (EDT)
Ah! I think I was going to do the quests for Esteldín at one point, but since I didn't have any characters in that level range, I figured I could do that some other time and called for the deletion of "Esteldín" instead of "Esteldin." -- Starbursty 08:22, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

Does ":Click [+] to expand a list of creatures." Location Boiler plate work?

I was trying to follow the instruction in the Template:

If there are more than 10 creatures then please use the following below: Click [+] to expand a list of creatures.

Category Put either Location Creatures or Location Mobs here! not found

But it doesn't seem to work (Definitely does not in the "preview" mode.)

Here's what I was doing...


Click [+] to expand a list of creatures.

Army of Angmar

Free Peoples

haven't been able to figure out where/what to do to make the "click +" work.

For this to work, you need to have all the creatures included in a category, eg. Category:Isendeep Mine Creatures. If the page doesn't exist already, you can create it. Once the category exists, you put that category inside the <categorytree mode=all depth="0"></categorytree> brackets, eg. <categorytree mode=all depth="0">The Delving of Frór Creatures</categorytree> gives:
So once you've made the Isendeep Mine Creatures category you would put <categorytree mode=all depth="0">Isendeep Mine Creatures</categorytree>. Hope this helps Amphoras (talk) 19:17, 7 June 2011 (EDT)
OK, read both this and my talk page entries.. I think I'm finally figuring out how this "Talk" stuff works... :}

I think I understand ... Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 15:48, 8 June 2011 (EDT)


Hi Starbursty, when you're making new Item pages, could you also add the amount parameter "| amount=" from now on please. Its been added to allow quests to show item stacks properly. Amphoras (talk) 09:27, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

Done. I noticed that the items that use the Reward template is not sitting flush with asterisk. See Quest:The Final Offence. It doesn't sit flush and seems to skip a line a use a break somewhere... -- Starbursty (talk) 09:33, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

Quest links

Thanks for adding those quest items and the stuff you did on GA a couple of weeks back. Just one thing for when you're adding a link to a quest. Remember to use the syntax [[Quest:Haunted Forest|Haunted Forest]]. All quest pages start with "Quest:", but we don't want to show "Quest:" in the link, so using this produces a link like Haunted Forest. Amphoras (talk) 10:51, 21 June 2011 (EDT)

Not sure if this is the proper way to respond, but it's the only way I could figure out to do it. Thanks for the tip. I will make sure I do that from now on. I've started adding some information on the various "Pledge" quests that you pick up in Himbar if you want to check what I've done there. I'm kind of new at this so I've just been trying to find similar pages and copy what was done there.(Asyncritus (talk) 11:14, 21 June 2011 (EDT))
It's even easier if you just enter [[Quest:Haunted Forest|]]. This will do the same trick and saves some typing. --EoD (talk) 11:22, 21 June 2011 (EDT)
Yeah, replying here or on your own page is the way to do it. Stuff you've added so far looks good.
Thanks EoD, never knew that, had just always seen it used the other way. Will need to remember that in future. Amphoras (talk) 12:07, 21 June 2011 (EDT)

"Effect" pop-ups

I notice that various "effects" do not generate pop-ups, the way Items do...

For example: Control of Annúminas A quiet calm Peace and Quiet Enhanced Abilities

Is there a syntax to make this happen?

Currently, this is only enabled for links pointing to pages in the Item namespace. We're moving towards being able to do this for effects, skills, etc., down the line, but it takes a bit of coordination between the templates, Cascading Style Sheet classes, and the Javascript. If you'd like to see how EoD set it up, take a look at MediaWiki:Lord of the tooltips.js. I'm afraid I can't explain too much further because I'm not familiar with the JQuery he uses, but you can also take a look at Template:Item Tooltip for the relevant CSS classes if you're curious. Sethladan 17:41, 21 June 2011 (EDT)

Hey Amphoras, can you please check out those problems before porting Effect back here? We had those issues a long time ago and they should already be fixed (and are on items). --EoD (talk) 09:41, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

Should be fixed now :). Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 15:05, 19 October 2011 (EDT)
Partially, look again what Rav found. --EoD (talk) 11:16, 21 October 2011 (EDT)
Yeah, same bug different template. May be the same in others too, but you just have to remove the line break in the template and it fixes it. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 12:17, 21 October 2011 (EDT)

Sorry to bother you again, but I'm not sure if that's intended or not (I found it by chance):

Did I copy something wrong? --EoD (talk) 20:23, 21 October 2011 (EDT)

No, {{Skill}} on testwiki doesn't have the changes merged yet to make skills look like they do here. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 11:13, 22 October 2011 (EDT)
Oh, ok. --EoD (talk) 14:33, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

Reward gone haywire

You'll probably see this on your own because you're so on top of things around here, but RingTailCat left a comment on Tiberivs' talk that makes me think Template:Reward (and the imlink business) needs another hard look, heh. Badhordam is the page in question; not sure where else this might be cropping up, though. Sethladan 12:03, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

/sigh Yes, that's my fault. I knew there was the risk of it happening, but I hoped there were no pages it would affect. Its not reward that's the problem, its the changes I made to imlink to work nicely with deeds. Previously deeds just assumed that the item's icon was called Item Name-icon. Obviously with the increasing number of generic icons being added, this would cause a problem at some point as the icon would not be under that name. Using imlink directly would give the correct icon, but it wouldn't fit nicely in the table. So, what I did was make imlink add the html tags needed to make it fit in the table if the page wasn't in a namespace. I couldn't think of any other pages that deeds that would use imlink, but I forgot about vendors. Good news is that I can easily fix it. Bad news is that one of the other solutions for deed now needs to be used. The other thoughts were creating a new mode which has the html tags needed for using on deeds, or adding another parameter to item pages to modify imlink if its called by deed. I think the new mode is probably the easiest and tidiest. Amphoras (talk) 12:22, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
Should be fixed now. Will try and make deed work nicely again later on. Amphoras (talk) 12:30, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
Not a matter of fault - I think I was talking to you in IRC when you were working on this, and didn't really pick up on it, either. It's crazy what can get out of whack when you're trying to do the right thing, especially with these cumbersome templates that are doing five things at once (:: glare Tooltip ::). Thanks for taking a look at it! Sethladan 13:49, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

Bot on Infobox MP-NPC

Do you think you can get your bot do those changes on all pages in Category:Freep NPCs and Category:Creep NPCs? To be more precise:

  • If name equals (the string) "{{PAGENAME}}" change it to "{{subst:PAGENAME}}"
  • If image contains "[[" take (regex) ".*Image:(.*)\.jpg.*"
    • If "/1" equals (the content of) "{{PAGENAME}}", replace it by " image = " (as I did here)
    • If not replace the line by " image = /1 " (as I did here)

Would save me a lot of work :) --EoD (talk) 03:41, 2 July 2011 (EDT)

Wasn't sure how to leave the field blank if the image was the same as the name, so they mostly have the image field being used as well. They should all be updated without the pagenames and using the new image format now anyway. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 10:25, 2 July 2011 (EDT)

Another bot request.... upodate Infobox Quests

See: User_talk:Sethladan#A double question - questline (hee hee, cool ... that link actually worked!

Basically add the "two" new lines from the Template:Infobox Quests update ... "questchain" and (apparently on some, but not all) "questgroup"

Hmm... It looks like the "questgroup" parameter replaces "region." "Theoretically" it is just a parameter label swap, the data being identical.

I have seen some infoboxes where there is no "region" parameter, but there is a "questgroup" -- however no "questchain" parameter.

I'm guessing these were two separate updates to the Infobox from different times.

So I guess the logic would be ...

  • if region, replace region with "questgroup"
  • if NO questchain add "questchain = "

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:22, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

I'll take a look at it and think whats the best way to go about it. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 11:28, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Simple(r) bot task

It would be great if you could replace all occurrences of Woodworker's Tools with Woodworking Tools. --EoD (talk) 13:23, 17 July 2011 (EDT)

Been away on holiday, but thats it done now. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 11:28, 20 July 2011 (EDT)
Heya! I hope you enjoyed your holidays! Thanks for the changes! --EoD (talk) 15:59, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Item:Tome of Burst of Legendary Competence

Heya. Did Starbursty request the deletion of that page? I got one of those items in my vault as far as I remember. What was the reason for the deletion? --EoD (talk) 09:29, 24 July 2011 (EDT)

Yeah he did. It seemed to have been replaced by Item:25% Legendary Item XP Tome (30 min), but maybe it was a mistake. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 09:52, 24 July 2011 (EDT)
I just checked my vault and the name has been changed. I probably missed the change. Thx :) --EoD (talk) 10:37, 24 July 2011 (EDT)
I had been holding off on deleting that (and the other items Starb requested) until I figured out what the deal was with them. Thanks to you guys for taking care of it, hahah. :) Sethladan 14:56, 24 July 2011 (EDT)

Icon Template

Please have a look at Spring Rewards Vendor. I am seeing a problem with the positioning of numbers when the count requires 2 digits. Single digit numbers appear to be correctly positioned relative to the icon they overlay. The two digit number are on the next line perhaps?

I tried modifying the Template:Icon/doc page as a test - the numbers came out in the correct location, so I'm a bit baffled at what is going wrong.

Any way, you were the last person to touch the Template:Icon page so I'm nagging you about this. Sorry if you are not the one to bother. I am using Firefox 6.0.1 RingTailCat (talk) 21:12, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

Yeah I see what you mean. Its because of the way the icon template works. The real position of the numbers is on the right of the image, but its forced to appear over the image instead. As the actual position doesn't change, its caused lots of alignment problems. In this case it was the fixed sizes of the table columns meaning the line was slightly too small for 2 numbers after the icon so the numbers were forced onto the new line. I've made the columns a bit bigger, so it should fit ok now. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 16:37, 2 September 2011 (EDT)

Character Stats (Round 2)

Seeing as most of them changed in some way with RoI, all these pages will have to be checked/changed. The formulae seem to have changed as well, so need to work them out first and get them updated. Contributions from primary stats have changed as well, so they all need to be checked and updated. Finally several caps have been changed/removed. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 14:23, 29 September 2011 (EDT)

transcluded section ... Tooltips coords not working

Since you knew/found the answer to the mystery of transcluding tables.... Tasks Bulletin Board#Dunland (Levels 65 - 68) now includes (ignoring the content) in Galtrev... with the exception of the fact that the "Tooltips Coords" don't work either in the original or the transclustion. One assumes that { has an equilivent to {{!}}? -- Fortunately I use EMACS and have no problem doing mass changes like that. There are some things that WYSIWYG editors are miserable at, and mass or global changes are particularly difficult.

The Galtrev [80.1S, 16.6W] syntax works fine outside the transclude section, but not in it. (There is no map yet)
* Galtrev {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.1S|16.6W}} Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:25, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

Aha... Sethladan found the answer... Template | doesn't need {{!}} So the Dunland Task's section is a fairly complex example of the inclusion of a section. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 23:47, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
Glad you found it :). I thought that might be the case, but I was on my phone and it was 3.30 in the morning when I read it, so I thought it would be best to wait til morning :P. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 07:26, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

Bot Edits

Hiya - caught two "oops" edits that your bot made: here and here. Corrected them, but just wanted to give you a heads up in case there were others of this sort, or if you'd planned to continue cleaning up links in this fashion. Thanks for the hard work you two did today, though! :) Sethladan 20:18, 5 October 2011 (EDT)

Another whoops: Quest:A Worm by the Tail was hit by the bot, the ccords tooltip was spelled with lowercase 't' in tooltip. Of course that was wrong but it worked since the system is forgiving. As a the mental note, next time also check so that following word matches some known criteria, such as != Coords, or == | (depending on language of the bot of course). However, just one of the several quests I have laid hands on recently is a very good grade /thumbsup :D -- Zimoon (talk) 02:24, 6 October 2011 (EDT)
Ah damn, forgot there were other templates that started with tooltip. There may be others that it hit as well, I'll run it again tonight to change "Item Tooltip Coords" to "Tooltip Coords", that should hopefully get any others. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 05:04, 6 October 2011 (EDT)

Stat Caps

Can you find the article on the removal of Offence Rating caps? I can only find this [1] -- Starbursty (talk) 08:49, 9 October 2011 (EDT)

Yeah, Graal posted it in a thread, but the Dev Diary never seems to have been updated for some reason. [2] Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 10:34, 9 October 2011 (EDT)
Thanks! -- Starbursty (talk) 23:44, 9 October 2011 (EDT)


Why did you add this tableimlink? I'm trying to get something to work and think I'm almost done, apart from the fact that I probably need a new mode :( . --EoD (talk) 10:06, 12 October 2011 (EDT)

I added it to fix the alignment of imlinked items on deed pages when the amount parameter was being used. Before the "extra spaces" from amount were messing up the alignment, so I made it all go in a table to fix it. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 12:58, 12 October 2011 (EDT)
Can you give an example? Does it similar stuff to what I posted above? --EoD (talk) 20:13, 12 October 2011 (EDT)
Its used by Reward Table. It was made to fix the alignment on pages like Ost Dunhoth: Champion of the Fortress of the Western Host where the two items would be aligned differently because one uses {{{amount}}}. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 05:09, 13 October 2011 (EDT)
I guess that makes this mode redundant? At least it gets removable and Seth will be happy to have one less mode :p --EoD (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
Sorry, I thought I had replied to this. Yeah, that looks pretty good. Looks like it should take care of all the spacing issues we've had all over the place with the old version. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 08:32, 19 October 2011 (EDT)
Can you change the template which use it so far? If not, can you give me a list of templates where it's used? I don't know of a way to check which template uses that mode apart from putting unnecessary jobs on the wiki ;). --EoD (talk) 08:53, 19 October 2011 (EDT)
That's it changed now. Alignment looks ok, but only checked a couple of pages. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 15:53, 19 October 2011 (EDT)
Thanks! --EoD (talk) 11:17, 21 October 2011 (EDT)


My bot gives on lotro-wiki the following error, when I try to execute any command which edits stuff:

Getting 1 pages from lotrowiki:en...
Received incomplete XML data. Sleeping for 15 seconds...
Received incomplete XML data. Sleeping for 30 seconds...

It works fine on testwiki though. Any suggestions? --EoD (talk) 20:13, 12 October 2011 (EDT)

Oh, geez; now EoD has a bot, too? We're doomed. ;) Sethladan 21:13, 12 October 2011 (EDT)
Are you using pywikipediabot? I don't remember if I had the exact same problem at first, but adding "-debug" to the command list solved my problems, maybe it will help here as well. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 05:09, 13 October 2011 (EDT)
Yes, I think that's the only reasonable one? Right, it works as soon as I add "-debug". That's really weird ;). Maybe our mediawiki software here is too old for the bot. Thanks! --EoD (talk) 06:09, 13 October 2011 (EDT)

For the case you are interested: BoD's config files. --EoD (talk) 22:08, 14 October 2011 (EDT)

{{worth}} in tables

Not sure if you are involved but seeing the great cosmetic improvement on sales tables you did by the bot I wonder if you could have a look at tables where the {{worth}} template is used. See for example Bill Rosewood‎ traveling table and the "cost" column, not a pretty sight ;) -- Zimoon (talk) 15:20, 13 October 2011 (EDT)

No idea what you're talking about, so I'm guessing its something EoD's bot did. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 18:10, 13 October 2011 (EDT)
Yes, heard yesterday that he als o runs a bot, sorry for the noise. -- Zimoon (talk) 02:09, 14 October 2011 (EDT)
NP :) Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 06:00, 14 October 2011 (EDT)

Legacy Table Visuals

Hiya! Blast from the past regarding Legacies. I happened to be looking at Anthem of Composure (Resistance) just now, and wondered if there were a way to further organize/clean up/unify the look of the tables somehow. For me, that many lines of "Level # to # # Age" starts to get a little blurry and makes it hard to find what I'm looking for. What would you think about (and I'm just asking your opinion, not asking you to do it, heh) adding a darkened (like the headers) column to the left to set off "3rd Age," "2nd Age," and "1st Age" sections, so to speak? This would be especially neat if we could pull off a text transform and rotate them to vertical.

I know that not all legacies have that many lines in their tables, and I haven't really looked into either doing it or that transform business. Wanted to get your thoughts before I expended too much effort, heh. Sethladan 14:28, 21 October 2011 (EDT)

Yeah that sounds pretty cool. Would be pretty good if we could get it to do that. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 14:43, 21 October 2011 (EDT)

Effect pages

Help! [3] [4] They look horrible, what happened here? :'( --Ravanel (talk) 07:09, 23 October 2011 (EDT)

Just a guess, you you should look at the clear:all of
|<span style="font-family:serif;color:#C3B585;font-stretch=narrower;font-variant: small-caps; font-size:{{{font-size|1.5em}}}; clear: all;">{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|{{{disambigpage}}}|{{{name}}}|[[{{{disambigpage}}}|{{{name}}}]]}}</span>
inside of Template:Tooltip --EoD (talk) 07:27, 23 October 2011 (EDT)


Sorry for disappearing from IRC. My internet connection decided not to work for half an hour. :-S --Ravanel (talk) 08:07, 12 December 2011 (EST)

Legacies going up to six

Hey there. I got a problem with the legacy template that I can't seem to solve myself. Morale - Sign of the Wild: Protection goes up to six ranks and this didn't exist yet on the wiki, so I added that info on Legacy Cost Progression. I could not, however, find any place in the Template:Legacy where I could enter this information. As you can see, the Morale - Sign of the Wild: Protection page still shows the table up to rank 9 instead of 6. Any ideas? --Ravanel (talk) 05:42, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

Your cryptic directions on IRC didn't really help - I'm still totally lost. If you know how to solve it, I won't be angry at you if you quickly solve it yourself (it will probably cost you 5 mins instead of one whole day). :P --Ravanel (talk) 12:49, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
Sorry it wasn't very clear. It should be all done now though :). Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 17:51, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
It worked! Thanks a lot! --Ravanel (talk) 06:52, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Rating based legacy tables

Hiya. If I'm not mistaken, you worked a bit on the rating based legacy tables a while ago. I tried looking into it myself, but it's way beyond my skill level. I think they look pretty good now, but there's one small thing that needs to be changed: I think the level 75 legacies need their own line, at least the 2nd and 1st agers (just like the level 65 ones). Check the data on Talk:Tactics: On Guard Parry Rating Buff. These are good examples, as there are four rating based legacies that have the same values:

Eventually, those tables should all look the same. I know that you're not very active on the wiki at this moment, but may the event occur that you return and look for something to do, this would be a great thing to start with. An overhaul of the whole template is nice, but a lot of work, and this would fix the misinformation on the wiki right away. Cheers. --Ravanel (talk) 06:18, 19 June 2012 (EDT)

Changes to Class (Reply)

Hey Amphoras and thanks for your message. The reason I added in Ranged DPS to the Guardian is because it is a ability they can recive at level 30 and I thought it would be inaccurate to over look that. However you were correct that that was their only ranged ability and since you are clearly more experienced than me I will change that back to nothing in that slot. Thank you for telling me that and proving me wrong because it is as much of a learning experience for me as it is helping to contribute to the site. Agorand (talkTalk to me!) 12:21pm, 21st June 2013, AEST (Austrailian Eastern Standard Time)

Are you around to talk about bots...

If so, please see: Template_talk:Skill#Change_to_be_tooltip

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:41, 30 June 2013 (EDT)

Do you know anything about: Template_talk:Item_Tooltip#Undocumented.2Fincomplete_changes...?

Do you know anything about: Template_talk:Item_Tooltip#Undocumented.2Fincomplete_changes...?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 12:34, 13 August 2013 (EDT)


As part of my great documentation project: User:Magill/Project-Documentation, and part of documenting "Tools for Editors", I took comments from the LOTROadmin talk page the other day and expanded on it to create Help: Patrolling. (A term which I had often heard, but had never had defined.)

There is undoubtedly still a great deal to do and much "oral tradition" to be captured. Just getting the Article Management Tags to be consistent has been a lot of work.

And then there are the "templates," and Bots .....!

Please add/correct/comment on things... There are so few of us "old timers" around that much knowledge is in danger of being lost. (Hey, I'm still a newbe!)

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 16:10, 18 August 2013 (EDT)
That looks pretty good. The only thing I would maybe change is to note that you don't need to have an in-depth knowledge of the topic that's been changed (eg. say something was changed on a quest page and you can't remember the quest). In general we assume that if someone is editing a page, then they've checked out the changes they've made first. As long as the edit looks ok, then you can usually mark it patrolled. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 16:25, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

Legacies and LI Plugin info

Hey there. I don't know if you're still active or if you are allergic to legacies by now :P but the maker of the LI plugin in LotRO made an account on the wiki and had some great info on the R9 legacies. It'd be awesome if you could give us your thoughts on Talk:Legacy Cost Progression#More values. --Ravanel (talk) 13:46, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi, just saw the message you left (only 2 months late :P). Not sure if anything ever happened with this, or what still needs done, but I might have some time next month where I could have a look at it if it still needs doing. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 23:05, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Hey. Unfortunately, I seem to be just as inactive as you! I saw this guy talking and just thought that it would be huge to the info on legacies on lotro-wiki if we could implement this through some clever template. Or rather, change the existing one so it fits. However, I know where my talents lie and it's not with (understanding) templates. Nothing has been done with this as far as I know, so if you still have some time left over... If you do the smart work, I could always take any emerging mindless repetitive work on me (let me know). --Ravanel (talk) 15:36, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Bot questions

Can you check in over at: User talk:Matthew.ZellmerBot and see if anything I have said is correct and/or makes sense?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 19:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)