Talk:Class
I just got done playing PvMP for the first time.. we have more classes, skills, and traits to define.... How do we want to represent the monster classes? I'm not sure if there are a race --Hinney 21:46, 19 March 2007 (PDT)
Good point, I hadn't even thought about that aspect of play. I don't think we should mix up the monster stuff with the regular PvE stuff. A "Monster Play" set of content is probably best. --Hellis 22:09, 19 March 2007 (PDT)
That's the answer Hinney. The monsters do not have the ability of the players. Creep play in the game is like the books. Its overwhelming odds that gives Sauron and his minions the edge. It is never about skill,when you outnumber your foe 20 to 100 to one overwhelming odds becomes a factor.
Creep play is a distraction from the main point of the game( admittedly a fun one) but it is not the end all of this game. The Epic book story line has nice touches and it makes the players feel like they are doing the distractions that are necessary for the fellowship to succeed.
What is up?
So what is up with this page? Most of the classes have a short description and then a link to their main page. But the Minstrel and the Rune-keeper have all their information on this page. Can anyone fix this or say why it is this way? Thanks, Master Storm 01:17, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
- Fixed :D Rogue 23:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
There are some changes I would make to the existing content & layout of this page.
- The Class Table, remove the word "Nuker". Ranged DPS is sufficient
+ Warden, DPS AoE as secondary
- Hunter, DPS Melee. I don't recall anyone asking hunters to fill any Melee spots in a group
- Rune-Keeper, Crowd Control. The RK has 2 Stun skills that last about 10 seconds. Not enough to fill a role of CC.
- Rune-Keeper, Debuffer. Can put a skill on a target with change to proc for a one-time add to DPS. Not enough for this role either
+ Minstrel, DPS Ranged. When traited for War-Skald this becomes viable as a Secondary role.
Class Description;
+ Minstrel, Link to class page
+ Rune-Keeper, Link to class page
- Rune-Keeper, pare down description to relevant content possibly relocating some info to the class page.
--BernieTime 23:10, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Add Class SLOT Item reference info to each Class
I'm relatively new to the game, but I'm having an AWFUL time identifying relevant Class SLOT Items for each class. Oddly enough, it appears to be a globally missed issue for some reason: Every reference I've found so far lists all kinds of nifty data about each class, yet doesn't provide data about that class's Class SLOT Item.
This is important info for new players, particularly considering class items can be gotten at level 30, 40, as well as 55 (as far as I've been able to determine, stumbling around searching). Not knowing any better I managed to find on the in-game Auction House, eventually, Carvings for Wardens. Level 55. I then (erroneously) assumed classes didn't get to equipp Class Items until level 55 until I accidentally stumbled on level 30 class items for Champions and Lore Masters, then also stumbled on level 40 SLOT items for Hunters.
Short to the Long: Class SLOT Item info presented with each class would be incredibly helpful.
Class: Item Recipe / level (repeat for each level available) Item Description / drop info if not crafted
Listing the recipe would identify what profession makes it
- Also, check out Master Item Index. At the bottom you should find Class Item Indexes. These are generally for their class slots ;) Though they are not started or completed yet it will be a great reference. I also agree that this link or information should be on each class page. :) Great idea! Rogue 15:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
New Update
How I would like to edit this page:
- "Nuker" from "DPS: Ranged / Nuker"
- DPS Melee from Hunter
+ LM as secondary for DPS AoE.
+ Class slots Item, if not here in the Class specific page
The Pet Classes as marked with S which makes not such sense, could be replaced by a dot or something like that.
Let me know if there's something wrong. Gilmo 21:28, 29/07/2011
- Hey, think your changes look great. Good point to look at this, looks like it hasn't been updated after the changes with Mines of Moria. I propose to add AoE DPS as secondary also for guardians, since they are actually the second best class (after champion) for sustained AoE DPS, especially when traited Overpower. Lore-master is winner at burst AoE DPS. It looks a bit odd to me that the Hunter is actually considered secondary AoE DPS. I mean, they have like, 2 damaging AoE skills in total? They are obviously master at single-target DPS, together with Rune-keepers. Perhaps there should be a "DPS:Single-target" column as well. "DPS:Melee" and "DPS:Ranged" could be changed into "Melee class" and "Ranged class" and put to the right, just like the "Pet class", since each class is primarily either melee or ranged. (For instance, a Hunter also has melee skills, but is obviously meant primarily as a ranged class.) Please let me know what your thoughts are. --Ravanel (talk) 03:58, 30 July 2011 (EDT)
- I don't know anything about Guardian so not sure about that, but I agree about Hunter AoE (how did I not noticed it if I noticed the Melee one?). For the column name that's a cool idea, but maybe that would mess the P and S system, I would wait a little more to see if others agreed on it.
One things more, I found out some trouble with Class Items with LIs, since there are too many if you consider the level(there are lotta of third ager starting from level 50) so, any hints about how to do it would be great. Gilmo (talk) 08:20, 30 July 2011 (EDT)
- I don't know anything about Guardian so not sure about that, but I agree about Hunter AoE (how did I not noticed it if I noticed the Melee one?). For the column name that's a cool idea, but maybe that would mess the P and S system, I would wait a little more to see if others agreed on it.
Class changes with Helm's Deep
This wiki is hands down my goto site to look up class information, but since the release of Helm's Deep with its introduction of skill trees the wiki differs substantially from the current game. Since wikis are community efforts I would like to contribute in help getting the information up to date. I am pretty much a complete noob as editor of this wiki, so I am curious to learn if there is any ongoing work or strategy how to update the pages for all classes after Helm's Deep as to keep them accurate and consistent in their format.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Emri (Contribs • User Talk) at 12 December 2013.
I too would love to know how I can help. is someone working on this and would like assistance?
-- Tigerpanda13 (talk) 12:01, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hello, and thank you both for the offers of help! It's true that we haven't been able to catch up yet, being a little short-handed of active editors. If only I could quit my job and work on the wiki all the time, things would get done much faster. Alas, there are certain flaws to that plan.
- What would help tremendously would be if you could work on creating some of the new traits. We have a template for this purpose: Boilerplate:Trait, so all you have to do is create a page with the trait's name, copy in the blank template and fill in the information. If it's a trait that gives you a skill, the trait page should be named "Awesome Skill (Trait)" so that the skill itself can take the "Awesome Skill" page. In some cases a trait or skill existed with the same name before Helm's Deep, so you can use that same page but replace it with the up-to-date info. The classes most in need are Burglar, Captain, Lore-master, and Warden, but really anything you see that's not already done would be a help. It's difficult (if not impossible) to update our master index pages until we have a lot more of the traits and skills filled in.
- For a couple examples of new traits that have been added, see Sustenance, Thrust (Trait) and Relentless Assault. I think the boilerplate explains how to use the template, but if you have any questions about it feel free to ask. -- 17:28, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
- One issue which we have not really defined is how to modify (add to? create additional?) the existing class pages to reflect the new Trait Tree structure. While the existing presentations can be "easily" modified to reflect the changes in skills, those changes won't reflect the Trait Trees as such.
- Some of us have created "sandbox" (scratch or test) pages to collect information and play with presentations.
- However, pages like Class Trait Point are hardly "useful" in their present state :) I created that page simply because both terms are now "standard" in-game terminology, but, that page, is their only reference on this Wiki.. :(
- Which is another way of saying, if you have any ideas on PRESENTATION, don't hesitate to voice them!
- Go ahead and create a page -- use the "/" sub page technique -- [[User: <name>/mock-up]], put a link to it on your talk page and ask what people think.
- As Elinnea points out "active editors are in short supply," so if you can come up with a reasonable idea it will likely be adopted.
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:42, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
- A heads up to you guys that I intend to start on the Burglar traits then --Emri (talk) 10:05, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
- Started with the burglar traits.
- Is it ok to replace old pages as I go along?
- The main Burglar Traits page will be a complete mix of old an new during --Emri (talk) 16:48, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
- My work in progress for burglar is on this page. Check it out if you like and comment. Currently it just lists tree skills using imlinks. Will put up pages for the specialization skills as well. The Guardian page has a decent table layout for the tree, gonna try reuse it. --Emri (talk) 10:54, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Light/Medium/Heavy Class classifications
I think it's a bit confusing at the moment in Wiki, how light/medium/heavy is explained.
In game we have:
- light/medium/heavy armour items
- light/medium/heavy armour wearing capability/characteristics
- light/medium/heavy mitigation (40/50/60%)
In my opinion with classes we should speak of Light, Medium and Heavy Class groups. Major characteristic of each class group is the mitigation calculation/cap used. In general:
- Heavy Classes have heavy class mitigation and have the armour wearing characteristics light/medium/heavy armour.
- Medium Classes have medium class mitgation and have the armour wearing characteristics light/medium armour.
- Light Classes have light class mitigation and have the armour wearing characteristics light armour.
I say in general, because technically this is not a sure thing. In Beta when Beorning was introduced on Bullroarer, it was still a Heavy Class. However, although it was a Heavy Class (with cap 60%), it could not wear heavy armour items, but only light and medium.
I think it's wrong (or unclear) to speak of light/medium/heavy armour mitigation, because for example, a Heavy Class can wear medium armour items and still it's mitigation is based on the heavy mitigation formula. Better would be Light/Medium/Heavy Class Mitigation or simply Light/Medium/Heavy Mitigation.
Maybe I just see a problem where is non. :) --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 22:13, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
- I can't say that I have ever understood this mitigation business . . .:)
- Other than that, all I can offer is -- many of the descriptions, especially of the most basic concepts, are actually, quite literally, from 2007, when the game released, and the Lorebook existed.
- At that time, many of these concepts were actually defined by Turbine and found in both the Game Manual and on-line in the Turbine written and maintained Lorebook. Sadly, the Lorebook has been gone since about 2012, and at the end, it was no longer maintained by Turbine, but strictly by players -- much like the Wiki.
- Over time many things about the game have changed, some quite dramatically. Many of these changes have been undocumented -- some have been written up as origninally "Dev Diaries", and more recently as simply "Articles." However, these articles, at best are very thin on content.
- There was also a formal Forums thread on Game Mechanics -- which for some unknown reason Turbine decided to get rid of. Not only did that loose many discussions, but it also lost much valued and valid discussion and explanation of game mechanics.
- All that said, the "light/medium/heavy armour items" distinction is quite real. However, the "light/medium/heavy armour wearing capability/characteristics" distinction doesn't really exist, except in rare instances. If a Class is able to wear Heavy Armour, it can also wear light and medium, but nobody does - especially since the advent of "Cosmetics" which allows survival gear to be hidden under "role-appropriate" gear. (Except for the Peter Jackson movies, nobody has ever seen an Elf in Heavy Armour!)
- Again, I can't really talk about mitigations as I never have paid attention to them. Over the years, we have had different kinds of mitigations -- Radiance and Audacity are the two current versions that I think of -- Until Mordor comes out. Then we will add "Light of Eärendil" to counter the "Shadow of Mordor". Which effectively eliminates the entire concept of Legendary Items and Essences. While the Bullroar builds are still very much a work-in-progress, so far, we have only seen single slotted essence gear available.
- So, all I can say is -- feel free to add/change the verbiage as makes sense.
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk