Category talk:Vol. I. Book 1 Quests
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Naming of the epic quests
I noticed that the names of epic quests on the wiki do not always match their in-game name. Some of them start with 'Book', while others don't. More precisely, I found these 'naming rules' in my quest log:
- All Volume I quests are called Book ...: Chapter ...: ....
- Quests in Volume II through Volume III, Book 3 are called Chapter ...: .... The only exception is the first quest of each book: there the book is mentioned similar to the quest names for Volume I.
- All quests starting from Volume III, Book 4 (also Volume IV) follow the naming rules from Volume I again.
All quests from Volume IV are named correctly, but the Volume I quests on the wiki are missing the book name. Their names might have been different in the past, but I didn't find anything about quest names changing through the years. Renaming all these pages seems like a lot of work, unless there is a tool on the wiki which can do this automatically. (RoyalKnight5 (talk) 11:45, 7 April 2021 (UTC))
- Not sure if you saw but it seems this issue was already brought up in 2012 here Category talk:Epic Quests, so i guess the quest names didnt change. I would probably prefer if the names followed in game names, tho i guess it might not be worth the amount of work unless making it with bot. --Drono (talk) 12:25, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
- I was considering starting this discussion on that talk page, but decided to put it here since most of the incorrect quest names are in Volume I. If I had looked at that talk page, I would have noticed it. Anyway, I agree that this will have to be added to the list of 'big problems' that are currently difficult to handle. (RoyalKnight5 (talk) 16:39, 7 April 2021 (UTC))
- I was approached by an editor who found this and asked if it was OK to fix the quests. Suggested to go here and volunteer, but I agree we should always try to follow "the wiki rule-book". — Zimoon 17:31, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
- Also adding my thoughts here instead of the other page, because I'm currently looking specifically at these quests. I'm the above-mentioned editor who seems to have too much time on his hands. As per the different books' formatting mentioned here, the formatting is inconsistent in the game. Also, basically all of the Epic quests are not searchable by Book and Chapter (I mean the dropdown suggestions, the actual search results will show it almost always as the first result)
- Try searching for Quest:Book 1, Chapter 1: A Real Adventure, which works if you search by typing "Book 1" (this is specific to this chapter), but not if you type "A Real Adventure"
- Try searching for Quest:Chapter 1: Unravelling the Thread, which works if you type "Chapter 1: Un", but doesn't work if you type "Unravelling the Thread", nor will it show up when just typing "Chapter 1"
- Try searching for Quest:Chapter 3: Proof's Burden, which won't show up when searching with "Chapter 3", nor with "Proof's Burden" (it shows results for a different quest of the same name), but does show up when you type "Chapter 3: P"
- So we need to find a solution that is intuitive, and doesn't make the search process any worse. As I see it, there are three options:
- Standardize all Epic Quests to only show the Chapter, or
- Standardize all Epic Quests to show Book and Chapter, or
- Follow the in-game exactly
- Option 1 gives the most clarity when reading quest titles, while Option 2 keeps the quest titles short and clean. You could always looks at Quest Chain/Group info for which Book/Volume it belongs to. I'd prefer not to go with option 3, since that is almost how we have it right now and it's a bit all over the place. Any thoughts? —SierraOne (talk) 21:21, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
- The Search suggestions suggest only the prefix in alphabetical order so not in middle of the word. That should explain all the behavior mentioned - i guess '.' is before ':'. Unfortunately the suggestions are not great, but we should not be changing the titles based on search suggestions. You will find the quests with no issue actually hitting enter on the search terms. We should follow the in-game names and talk about if we can do something to improve the search suggestions. --Drono (talk) 08:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- Ok, if we separate this into search vs. the actual quest page, then agreed, we can make the quest names match the in-game exactly. That'll probably also help any actual people looking for information, since they will likely be looking up the quests according to what they are looking at in-game. Then we can figure out search suggestion improvements as a separate issue entirely. Now another question: the current Quest Group names for the Epic quests is standardized on the wiki as only containing the Vol + Book, but show up in-game with some additional text. Is there any benefit to lining that up with the in-game as well? —SierraOne (talk) 14:55, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- The Search suggestions suggest only the prefix in alphabetical order so not in middle of the word. That should explain all the behavior mentioned - i guess '.' is before ':'. Unfortunately the suggestions are not great, but we should not be changing the titles based on search suggestions. You will find the quests with no issue actually hitting enter on the search terms. We should follow the in-game names and talk about if we can do something to improve the search suggestions. --Drono (talk) 08:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- So we need to find a solution that is intuitive, and doesn't make the search process any worse. As I see it, there are three options:
- Have you found any indication in very old talk pages why the editors of that time decided as they did? I came to the wiki after those days and I remember chat about one old decision but I don't remember what it was about. To find any traces of that we might even have to skim through archives talk pages as well as user pages of editors active at that time. I think Rogue would be an asset here as she is the most old-timer I can think of. — Zimoon 16:01, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Category talk:Epic Quests and another one linked from there? --Drono (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Reading those pages (Category talk:Epic Quests, Category talk:Vol. III. Book 4 Quests, Quest Talk:Chapter 5: Old Friends and New Tidings, Quest Talk:Foreword: Fires in the North) it seems most of the discussions either ended without a conclusion or people ran up against the same thing I did and questioned which convention was better. Would definitely be good to get the opinions of those initially involved. — SierraOne (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Category talk:Epic Quests and another one linked from there? --Drono (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Have you found any indication in very old talk pages why the editors of that time decided as they did? I came to the wiki after those days and I remember chat about one old decision but I don't remember what it was about. To find any traces of that we might even have to skim through archives talk pages as well as user pages of editors active at that time. I think Rogue would be an asset here as she is the most old-timer I can think of. — Zimoon 16:01, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
- Skimming through many of those links and searching a bit I think most discussions were about how to name epic categories based on questgroup and questchain parameters. And the discussions on quest names never ended anywhere. Since all epic quests after some point are named as they are in-game I suggest SierraOne go on renaming them, with the help of editors who are allowed to "move" pages. Basically, create a redirect with the new name and do all other edits required (upon move the helping editor deletes that redirect and moves as usual). Or...? — Zimoon 13:39, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Conclusion: Pages that do not match the in-game name will be renamed to make them match. Whether we will be renaming categories to their full name will be further discussed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RoyalKnight5 (Contribs • User Talk) at 2022-04-08T18:03:58.
- /thumbsup — Zimoon 16:14, 8 April 2022 (UTC)