Talk:Sign of Power: Command

This started because I decided to re-visit Moria to check out the Update 7 changes.

• 1- The sentence, under Traits:

"The trait Improved Sign of Power: Command causes this skill to in addition decrease the block and evade chances of the target."

makes no sense and as best I can tell, should read:

"The trait Improved Sign of Power: Command causes this skill to decrease the block and evade chances of the target.

• 2- There is no description of the effect generated by the command itself without the trait.

• 3- That said, I believe the Trait has zero effect on Sign of Power: Command -- I assume, but do not know, that the "deed" associated with earning the Trait, when completed (i.e. the trait earned), upgrades Sign of Power: Command to Improved Sign of Power: Command "automagically." The Trait can then be slotted for additional effect.

(I don't have a toon "about to earn the trait" to check.)

• 4- The sentence fragment, under Tactical Information:

"making it parry less attacks and causing it to attack slower."

Should read:

"making it parry fewer attacks and causing it to attack slower."

or

"making it parry attacks less often and causing it to attack slower." (Closer to in-game wording.)

• 5- And finally, on Bullroarer under Update 7, I notice that this command is apparently an AOE spell ... I'm seeing it hit multiple targets in the combat log. I can't tell if it is strictly proximity or level related. I've seen it hit a Moria Keeper and up to 3 harassing Dark-claws (4 targets). But usually it seems to only hit 2 targets.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:59, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

• 6- Hmmm... just re-reading the Improved Sign of Power: Command description on the wiki (yet again). It implies that skill automatically replaces Sign of Power: Command upon the LM attaining Lvl 66. If that is true. The table here is wrong... as it lists values for levels beyond 66, when in fact they do not exist. The table should reference the fact that the different command is in effect... or if the LM fails to train that skill, do the values continue to increase to match those in the table? Which are in fact identical to those of the Improved version.

• 7- The AOE impact is buried in the "tactical information" section. Which begs the question... should there be a parameter "AOE=Yes/No/Range/Number of victims" etc.? While it does not display on the in-game tool-tip. It is vital information that truly is not obvious in most cases -- like this one in particular.

• 8- Ok, my "misteak" -- they did not change these things with Update 7. Things were simply not clear from reading the LOTRO-wiki pages.

The trait, Improved Sign of Power: Command (Trait) is not required to "upgrade" to the "Improved_Sign_of_Power:_Command" -- It happens on training for level 66. The implication is that the Level should be 1-65.

Is that really true?

• 9- So we have three pages that should inter-relate in an obvious manner, but which do not.

• Sign of Power: Command
• Improved_Sign_of_Power:_Command
• Improved Sign of Power: Command (Trait)

Did I say three? Well, there are really four.

Unless you start at the page: Lore-master Deeds#The Ancient Master, there is no indication that a link exists between Sign of Power: Command and Improved_Sign_of_Power:_Command nor reference to Improved Sign of Power: Command (Trait) -- when you start at Sign of Power: Command

ARGH! I just realized there is "yet another" page -- Sign of Power: Command (Effect)

• 10- I would re-label "Interactions" as "Item Interactions" - with a description like:

• If a Lore Master's Legacy Item -- Item:Lore-master's Book -- is equipped, and that item contains a Legacy Signs of Power Durations the effect is to increases the duration of the buff that is applied by this skill by up to 30s duration.
• If a crafted Lore-master's book -- Item:Book of the Dúnedain -- is equipped, the power cost for each use is decreased 4%.

If it sounds like I don't know much about Lore-masters, you're right. That's what I'm trying to learn using LOTRO-wiki... and it's painful.

And, for what it's worth, our information is the most current. Most (all?)other references seem to have not been updated since 2008!

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:37, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

Ravanel is the expert here and Lore-master skills has been a special project of hers for a while, so she will doubtlessly have more clear answers than I, but to begin:

1. The block and evade chance debuffs are in addition to the parry and attack speed debuffs that normally come with the skill - this is how I read that sentence to mean. The "in addition" is critical lest the sentence otherwise be interpreted to mean that those effects replace the default version of the skill. It could perhaps be worded differently - English is Rav's second (or third or fourth) language, certainly - but it's clear enough to me.
2. The tooltip describes the effects of the skill and there's also a link to Sign of Power: Command (Effect) on the page. What more would you like in terms of description?
3. The trait Improved Sign of Power: Command (Trait) affects both this skill and the improved version (see #5).
4. Yes, "fewer" would be more correct English here, although "less" is used pretty interchangeably.
5. If you're playing a high level Lore-master, it's possible that you have the skill Improved Sign of Power: Command, the "Improvement" being that it's an AoE version of the basic skill.
6. Improved Sign of Power: Command has a training price and level, just like most other skills, and it mentions on that page that it will replace this skill when trained. As above, the only difference is that it becomes an AoE, and it's possible that someone might not return to their trainer for a few levels or might simply choose not to train this skill. For all skills that have an improved version, the power costs have been the same and (because of the reasons just mentioned that people might still have the basic version) we go ahead and list the stats as high as we can get them.
7. If you're talking about AoE for this particular skill, none is mentioned because there isn't any. The improved version, however, is area-of-effect and that information (max targets: 5, radius: 10m) is pointed out right at the top of the tooltip.
8. And we're back to #6. Also, Improved Sign of Power: Command (the skill) was added with RoI when the level cap was raised, which is also probably why there are no references to it on this page yet - I guess Rav hasn't reviewed all the skills and updated every last detail, heh.
9. Sign of Power: Command doesn't link to the improved version of the skill (as mentioned above) because it's still relatively new. I'll fix that right now. The other pertinent pages are all linked here - the effect (under "Effects") and the trait (under "Traits").
10. The "Interactions" section was intentionally left broadly-named, as many thing interact with skills besides items. See, for example, Trick: Disable or Mischievous Glee which note how the skill is affected by other skills.

Whew! Hope this helps somewhat. It seems like you found a lot of answers on your own along the way, but I tried to hit each of your points as best I could. Granted, I've spent a significant amount of time in the fall buried in skills, so while I may not have a high-level Lore-master, I've seen most of these pages more times than I care to recall, heheh. Sethladan 23:41, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

Addendum: Yes, it is unfortunate that Turbine chose to use the same name for the improved skill and the relevant trait. Argh indeed. Sethladan 23:44, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

I somehow missed this wall of text at the time, but I just wanted to say that Sethladan addressed all points perfectly, even though he does not play a lore-master himself. Thanks, Seth, and sorry for the necro! --Ravanel (talk) 10:18, 1 July 2016 (UTC)