User talk:Anarchie
Chat Meeting
Hi there Anarchie.
Just letting you know (in case you didn't see the site-notice) that a chat meeting has been scheduled, and you can see the details here. Hopefully we will see you there!
--Fedaykin 02:27, 4 February 2008 (PST)
Instances
Hey there buddy :)
In light of all the recent changes you've made to instance articles, there are a few things I would like to discuss with you, since it's important that we work out a standard on boss articles:
1. What headlines and information do you think should be included across all boss articles?
- On older articles, such as this example, you'll notice I added a one-liner summary of the article at the top. Though it's obviously not necessary if the viewer got to the page knowing what he/she is looking for, it's a courtesy to people who somehow end up at the page and go "wait, what exactly is this supposed to be about?". I'd recommend that we keep this, as it's a standard across all "wiki".
- You chose to put "Quotes" up top, instead of below "Loot". I believe you're right, it adds more to the article up there, as opposed to being stuck down below somewhere with little significance.
- The one-line summary under Overview is no longer needed now that we have the nice Mob Infobox.
- Concerning the "Overview" itself, I noted that you call it "Tactics" instead. I am in favor of "Overview" as the headline name, because the section can include sub-headlines like "Preparation" and "Abilities" that wouldn't really fit in under "Tactics".
- Loot, as I think we both agree, comes right after the Overview/Tactics.
- I think a "Links" section on the bottom of important bosses is a nice thing to add. It can include links to more information about the boss fight and other strategies, etc., if they are available.
2. Should we use the {{toc-right}} template below the Mob Infobox?
- I think it looks a lot more neat that way, especially if we choose to implement the one-liner at the top of the article.
3. I filled out the template usage (Template:Infobox_Mob) here. I would like to make sure you agree with it, and point out the "Relative Difficulty" options I've specified. Though you already seem to be aware of most of this, I'd like to mention what each difficulty can be defined as, for reference (this is just a guideline):
- Very Easy - Encounters that are pure tank-n-spank, where the boss does not have any significant special abilities, no adds and less than 2 Dread. Fellowships can succeed here without any preparation and very little or no tactics. Examples are Shiruk and Kamordî and Temair the Devoted.
- Easy - Encounters that are mainly tank-n-spank, where the boss can have a few adds, minor special abilities and less than 4 Dread. Fellowships can succeed here without any preparation and minor tactics. Examples are Megoriath and Einiora.
- Medium - Encounters that are not always tank-n-spank, may involve a large number of adds, and can be considerably difficult if not done properly. Bosses at this level usually have 5+ Dread. In order to succeed, fellowships may need a little preparation and some tactics. Examples are Forvengwath and Castellan Wisdan.
- Hard - Encounters that are quite difficult, often involving a great deal of adds, powerful boss abilities, and at least 5 Dread. Fellowships will have to come prepared, and any mistakes during the execution of the tactics could result in a wipe. Examples are Udunion and Dolvaethor.
- Very Hard - These encounters are extremely difficult, involving lots of adds, a variety of powerful boss abilities, and 8-10 Dread. Coming fully prepared is a requirement, and a mistake made by any member of the fellowship or raid during the encounter will almost always result in a wipe. A great example is the Thorog encounter in Helegrod (unless they nerfed him last patch, after several "hey, very few kinships can defeat Thorog, let's make him even harder!" patches).
Anyways, I look forward to hearing back from you on these subjects. :) --Fedaykin 15:41, 31 October 2007 (PDT)
Hey m8, i have no problems getting a "template" (not the right word to use here but you know what i mean ;) ) for a boss mob up and running. Would make it easier for everyone. I don't quite agree with you on TOC since its being lost over on the right side which means it probably wont be used. Do we wan't it to be used? If not then lets just not use it. I don't mind either way.
i suggest a layout like this:
Brief description (like in Udunion)
==Quotes== (gives a nice lore feel to it (plus they are sometimes used in tactics)
==Overview== (I agree a common headline would be clever. this one allows just about anything)
===Preparation===
===Battle=== (brief pointers on the actual battle. This is where i take it my tactics will be filled in.
===Abilities=== (if needed and known. No need to list this sorta stuff for tank'n'spank boss's)
==Loot==
==Links==
i left out strategy since its really the odd boss out that needs both a battle desctiption AND a strategy. Both can easily fit in the battle part for 98% of all boss's
The difficulty level i find very hard to fill out. You listed Forwenwath as difficult where as i would say he's extremely easy. When you have the tactics down he's one of the easier in the game. My kinship does farm runs where we take him down every 10 or 15 minutes. Thats the problem, the difficulty depends a lot on the players. If you take on a "tactics required" boss and attempt to tank'n'spank he's naturally gonna be very hard.
But we can agree on a set of requirements for the boss.
Medium - Cannot be killed without the correct strategy (Forwengwath etc)
Hard - Cannot be killed without the correct strategy and very little room for failure (Balhest, Udonion etc)
Very Hard - same as before but with NO room for failure (Thorog and Moridith)
first few are for boss's that are either tank'n'spank solo (very easy) or kill ads and then tank'n'spank.
If we could get one Boss page up and running like everyone wants it to look like, then we can start editing the old ones. Start from the top (Arch Nem) and work our way down. The hardest mobs are bound to be the ones people come here to find info about rather than those they can dabble through IG.
btw should i add this as a reply to your message or post it in your talk? I have always been the silent wikier :P --Anarchie 03:22, 1 November 2007 (PDT)
- Hope you don't mind a quick comment - we use toc-right on a large number of pages as it can look very odd on the left. I don't personally feel it "gets lost".
- Also (OK, 2 comments!) I think you're agreeing on the classification of a fight's difficulty; just not on the name. Anarchie if you go by Fedakin's description (rather than the label) you reach teh same conclusion. Maybe the labels need changing but they're nice & short as they are :)
- *escapes from the unfamiliar territory of instances & sneaks back off to housing* DancesInTrees 09:27, 1 November 2007 (PDT)
- First off, I can see where your point on the toc-right is coming from Anarchie, but I have to agree with DIT - having it in the top left corner just above the one-line summary looks out-of-place, and it doesn't really get lost on the right side. Of course it might depend on your resolution, and perhaps your browser. I'm running 1280x1024 on this rig, with Mozilla Firefox, and if I look at Udunion I can see the full table of contents near the bottom right of the screen. In that place it isn't obstructive, it just fits right in. In the end what "looks better" is just an opinion, but I think we could agree on using toc-right.
- Now... it seems like we were just agreeing up there about the difficulty. When I posted the difficulty guideline here, I didn't mean that you had classified any of the bosses at the wrong level. I was merely writing it out as a reference for us and anyone else that might make boss articles in the future (I've since also placed it here).
- As for difficulty being very difficult (no pun intended) to fill out, that's true... but that's why we got the guideline, which is basically also what you re-iterated in your response. The "Relative Difficulty" is just a means of comparing the difficulty of one boss in relation to others, and not how "hard" the boss is actually going to be for your group to defeat. The first time we went into Haudh Valandil we ended up doing the last half of the instance with 5 players without wipes, and that was with me (champion) tanking. After Dolvaethor and Valandil went down, we were all thinking "that wasn't too hard". Yet many others full groups can't seem to do it, and I've heard comments that the place is "ridiculous" and "pretty much impossible". Well... I think that's quite enough storytelling for now, you know what I'm trying to say there.
- On to the subject of the headlines. A little background info... when I organized the boss articles with the "Quotes" on the bottom, it was done almost subconsciously. I came to LOTRO (and later this Wiki) just after I stopped playing WoW, and since I often participated in and lead raids, the WoWWiki boss articles were something I read top to bottom. In those articles (since WoW isn't big on lore) the "Quotes" section was at the very bottom. I completely agree that in LOTRO, where lore has a much larger importance, the quotes really should be up top. On top of that, the way you formatted them, it really looks great!
- To sum the rest up, I think the layout you made up top there is great. It should be noted that "Preparation" and "Links" are both also headlines that can be left out if they aren't necessary.
- --Fedaykin 16:25, 1 November 2007 (PDT)
- Since I haven't gotten a reply from Anarchie yet, can I assume that we are agreed? If so, then:
- {{toc-right}} will become a standard for the Instance Boss & Raid Boss article guidelines, placed under the Template:Infobox Mob code.
- I'll change the instance boss headlines to reflect what you (Anarchie) posted, sine we agree that this is a better layout for boss articles.
- The difficulty guideline on my page will be modified a little to better reflect room for failure on strategy execution.
- On another note, I'm about to make a post in instance discussion that anyone following this discussion should definitely check out. --Fedaykin 16:46, 4 November 2007 (PST)
- Since I haven't gotten a reply from Anarchie yet, can I assume that we are agreed? If so, then:
Ninja
Welcome to ninja status - as has been proved recently I don't actually have a clue what that involves, but I know there are extra permissions of some sort! DancesInTrees 02:02, 19 November 2007 (PST)
Knowledge of the Lore-master
Referred to in various ways, I've been tending to use "LM inspection". Examples:
As is hopefully obvious from those the levels are:
- Feeble - grey
- Poor - green
- Average - cyan
- Fair - blue
- Good - white
- Superior - yellow
- Remarkable - orange
- ?? (do they exist?) - red, purple
The images are too big to upload as they are on a regular basis - Anarchie's solution has been to shrink them but then I find that "Fair" in particular is then unreadable - not a problem if you're used to the boxes; but I can't see any good reason for not including the info as text. - DancesInTrees 00:50, 28 November 2007 (PST)
- I have the originals so its really no problem if you want them in a better resolution. I agree that "fair" is a problem at times but its the only one i have even remotly a problem reading
- Purple and red do excist. Dwarfs i samur have exceptional towards several things as do most mobs in the "basement" of Haudh Ica (the bree rep instance) infact many mobs have so high mitigation/resistances that only 2ish weapon types can damage them. Light is usually a good weapon on them though, common rarely is.--Anarchie 06:29, 30 November 2007 (PST)
balrog-slayer =)
hi mate, just wanted to congratulate on finally getting him down!
my kin slayed him a few weeks back and it was great feeling, especially considering that I'm a member of a rather casual kinship. next target is Thorog =) --Xander 02:56, 31 January 2008 (PST)