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Previous Talk Page archives can be found at:
file name covers date range
Archive 1 May 2011 to August 2011
Archive 2 August 2011 - November 2011
Archive 3 Liquid Threads (LQT) stuff - no data
Archive 4 September 2012 - December 2012
Archive 5 January 2013 - December 2013
Archive 6 January 2014 - December 2014
Archive 7 January 2015 - December 2015
Archive 8 January 2016 - December 2016
Archive 9 January 2017 - December 2017
Archive 10 January 2018 - December 2018
  • Being the Archive of my Talk page - 'September 2012 to December 2012


We could always use mumble :) Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 15:51, 28 September 2012 (EDT)

What is mumble? I'm sorry, I'm new to this. XD

17:20, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


1- Cool! Where did you find the War-steed descriptions? ... especially for the Light and Heavy?

They were actually already listed in the Wiki. I just linked them.

2- Also follow the discussions at: User talk:Elinnea/Sandbox-MountedCombat Elinnea and I have been looking for changes need to the Sill Tooltip Template as well as beginning to accumulate related information.

I'll check it out.

3- That "War-steed Tutorial I wrote still needs a lot of work, as well as a new name -- Tutorial implies the in-game "Tutorial" quest.

I was actually looking for a "War-steed" article, until I discovered that your tutorial article fits the bill. I'd recommend just called it "War-steed." In this way, everything war-steed-related can linked into this one article to rule them all!  ;) I actually have been modifying it a little bit.

4- I expect that after Beta 6 (tomorrow? 4 October) we'll be able to begin actively updating and inserting "stuff" into the Wiki which we will be able to "assume" will be accurate on release.

Yup. I play a RK main, so I'll be paying special attention to that area. I've already added a section for mounted combat, with empty tables so that I can fill in data as it solidifies. Once RoR releases, we will need to go through and remove all the {{Stub/Beta}} tags too. Perfectapproach (talk) 15:15, 3 October 2012 (EDT)

Great job on those "Related information" -- War-steed pages!!! Thanks! -- Zimoon (talk) 06:08, 7 October 2012 (EDT)

Disciplines and F2P

Are you sure about only one discipline being available for people who haven't bought the expansion? I've never seen anything about that, only that the Light and Heavy trait trees are limited. I also don't see anything in the store about buying mounted skills. -- Elinnea (talk) 23:30, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

P.S. I also added some parameters for mounted combat skills, and particularly for the disciplines. See Template_talk:Skill#Changes_for_RoR. -- Elinnea (talk) 23:32, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
  • I think you are right. I suspect I have mis-interpreted the "Medium War-steed" only business, confusing the "Discipline" with "Trait trees."
  • The other thing which is related -- purchasing the disciplines from the trainer. In the beta, I was able to purchase them from the Trainer IF I did not go through the training. However, If I went through the training, I received all three (and they were no longer available from the Trainer). I have not yet been able to verify if this is what happens in live.
    Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 23:43, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
Unforunately I've only got one character at 75, so I can only try it one way or the other. I think I'll go for the cheap way. ;) Every once in a while I really miss the E&G tavern on live servers. -- Elinnea (talk) 23:52, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

Out of the game for the forseeable future...

I have played via a Mac now for several years. First via Codeweavers CrossOver and then via the Mac Client from Turbine.

The Release of Riders of Rohan broke access via CrossOver, i.e. WINE. WINE has a fix that works "pretty easily" with the latest version (1.5.15) for Linux systems... but is extremely problematic for Mac users.

I was actually able to get the Mac Beta Client to point to the live servers, which worked until the Hotfix. And the only PC I have is an antique which runs XP. Since the Hotfix today, my game access has been eliminated. :( [It appears that since the Hotfix LOTRO no longer works on XP -- 32 bit OS and all that.]

So at the moment, I no longer have access to LOTRO.

I likely won't get WINE built and configured from the ground up on the Mac, in the immediate future.

And Turbine has not announced an ETA for the Mac Client.

And, on top of that, I'm closing on the sale of my home next week (30 October) and will be moving between now and then. So it's anybody's guess when my Internet access will work again. (A new set of wires... I can see it taking "forever" to get them functional!)

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 23:48, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. But congratulations on the sale! I hope the move goes smoothly. -- Elinnea (talk) 00:34, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
Umm, I have XP 32 bits here, and it works fine. Unless there was a second hotfix today (didn't check yet, but I logged yesterday just fine). Can't really help with crossover/wine though, its been a long time I don't mess with that stuff, it just gets tiring after a while, so I just moved on to windows... :P (though mac and linux are still here).
Gwenwyfar (talk) 19:59, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
Sorry to hear that Magill, certainly now when RoR is live, eventually. Good luck with moving and hopefully you find a replacement for that Mac -- me too was a fanatic once upon a time but caved in at last :P
-- Zimoon (talk) 01:54, 19 October 2012 (EDT)
Look, they fixed the 32 bit OS issue with the last patch, could give it another try :)
Gwenwyfar (talk) 09:56, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

Not according to forum threads... but I'm patching at the moment so we'll see. I have managed to find the time to get a patched version of CrossOver-WINE built (thanks to MacPorts) and was playing the other evening for a couple of hours... in Great River. Crossed the bridge and wham right on the first landblock load! Conveniently this version of WINE runs in X11 and the "controlling terminal" shows all of the malloc failures. :( Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 11:39, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

I tried opening the game I have installed on windows earlier today as I logged into mac with crossover and with wine, but no luck, so I guess that isn't an alternative :( Although wine loves to make things work only in an specific version sometimes...
Gwenwyfar (talk) 11:51, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

WINE needs to be patch to run with RoR -- The "normal" release of CrossOver crashes to desktop on launch. There is a patch available, but it requires building wine from scratch. Although using MacPorts, makes that pretty easy. I can provide the detailed instructions if you want.

Oh, no, I've given up on that some time ago. I just don't have patience for making these things work anymore :P As much as I dislike windows, I have to admit its just so much easier to use it, even besides all the problems with it. Thanks though. Was just checking if I couldn't make it work here as maybe a possibility that you could try to use the same thing to make yours work.
Gwenwyfar (talk) 17:43, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

Restored Quest Category

Hi M, I just restored :Category:Stangard Quests. We have now for a very long time manually added all quests to a category that corresponds to the "startinglocation" template parameter. Right now I see just one quest in the category for Stangard but since it is a large category I assume there are many quest givers. I am assuming, maybe wrongly, based on your comment in the delete log that you rewired all quests. If you did that you have some backtracking to do ;)

Yes, we should long ago have fixed it so startinglocation automatically adds the quest to a category. Which for any location is contained within its wrapping location or area, eventually in the region category. This has nothing to do with quest-log or quest group, it is a geographical thing. If category names overlap in that sense, fine, the less categories to maintain, if they do not they will live in parallel. That is for example the case with Category:Lone-lands Quests versus Category:The Lone-lands Quests, the first is quest-group and the second is geography. But Category:Garth Agarwen Quests is both.

Cheers -- Zimoon (talk) 16:49, 26 October 2012 (EDT)


You're the only other Wiki-er that I know off the top of my head to live in the metro area, so I hope you weren't hit too badly. Storm surge up by NYC basically washed over my whole town, no idea what it was like down by Philly, but I'm hearing reports of damage all over the place. Take care, mate! Sethladan 19:05, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Hope everything turned out well there, Magill. --Ravanel (talk) 12:52, 4 November 2012 (EST)
I was selling my house and moving during Sandy! -- Settlement was originally scheduled for the day of "landfall!" Fortunately, even though the Eye passed over Philadelphia... nothing happened! Almost no rain and minimal wind, of course the suburbs got nailed ... but then they've got TREES!!! Lots went down taking power with them. I'm still getting settled in at my new place (boxes all over the place), all three cats have decided my bed is the "safest" place to sleep... which doesn't leave much room for me. But at least my FIOS Internet connection is up and running -- and twice as fast (15meg down) as my old DSL.
As you'll see in my Contributor's Corner post, Turbine announced the Mac Client on 1 November. So that is downloading as I type this.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:43, 4 November 2012 (EST)

"Update 7" Quests

Hey dear Otter. :) I was brought to the attention of several Moria quests with "Update 7" in the article name - surely they aren't called like that in-game. Did you mean to replace the old quests with these? For example: Quest:Visage of Terror - Update 7 and Quest:The Terror that was Azog - Update 7. Are these the correct up-to-date ones? --Ravanel (talk) 12:52, 4 November 2012 (EST)

Yes they are the in-game quests. I ran into the duplicate name problem as I was creating the new quests. Intended to get back to them but... :( Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:36, 4 November 2012 (EST)
Hey Magill, I finished merging the contents of your "Update 7" quest pages for Tharâkh Bazân back into their original quest pages. If you want, you can kill the "Terror that was Azog - Update 7" link and delete the page along with the other 2 in that quest chain I marked for deletion after merging their contents. --Shardis (talk) 12:42, 26 April 2013 (EDT)
Be my guest... That was part of the pre-release update information from Bullroarer Haven't been back to Moria for a while. ... to many projects half done :(
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 21:04, 26 April 2013 (EDT)

Back on the air again.

Finally, back on the air ... after getting my iMac back from an "extended" stay with Apple... they recalled the internal Seagate Hard Drive, and what should have been about a four hour job morphed into over 6 days... sigh!

Now, I'm finally getting all of the parts of my computing environment up and running again following my physical move to an apartment from my home of 30 years -- talk about downsizing! This is proving to be an interesting exercise as I'm switching from a DSL environment with static IP addresses and zero limits on anything to FIOS, which, according to the TOS, won't let me run my web-server, but doesn't (at least so far) restrict it. I just have to program the port-forwarding into their router, an ActionTec MI424WR, which is pretty nice from what I read.

FIOS is (supposedly) 15meg download x 5 upload (compared to my old 6x3 meg DSL). Haven't measured it yet, but downloads from AKAMI do run at 15meg. However, interestingly, response in LOTRO doesn't seem to have changed. Not talking about the lag issues here, but rather the initial character loading and such where there is a dialog between my client and the Turbine Servers. One wonders if Turbine has implemented a concept ?invented? (or at least promoted) by UNIVAC from (40+) years ago -- "Guaranteed MINIMUM response time." I.e. you will never see either a "fast or slow response" but rather always see a "slow response" -- despite server load. One might describe this concept as "load balancing to assure predictable performance." I believe the concept has been implemented in virtually all DataBase engines today, but database engines were not my forte, so I'm only guessing.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 14:24, 25 November 2012 (EST)

Update 9 completely revises Stable-master window and Travel structure

alt text
  • Basically, every stable master across Middle Earth will display ALL routes they have available.
  • Those routes are marked to indicate their "status" -- discovered, undiscovered, level, etc.

One assumes that these "icons" are not in final form.

  • The "Pink" swirlie on the left indicates "Swift Travel."
  • The "Red" horizontal bar indicates "You have not yet discovered this destination"
  • The "White" with Red splotch indicates "You do not meet the requirements to travel to this destination."

Related to this, there is a new "store-bought" travel option offered -- "Travel to NPC." When you complete a quest which requires you to travel to a NPC at some other location, (at the moment) a group of 4 check-marks" appears in the Quest Tracker to indicate that you can click on them, and with the aid of a "Writ of Travel" (obtainable only from the LOTRO Store) which will "swift travel" you to that location. This particular option generated a massive number of comments between the time the Release Notes were posted and the time when the patch server came up! So, expect changes. (Most requested was a way to "hide" the "ugly" 4 check-boxes.) It is also broken in this first Update 9 Beta build, i.e. the pop-up window does not work.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 11:19, 28 November 2012 (EST)
I bugged a usability problem as well. The default button "Travel" is on the wrong side. I also notice that you cannot select a route and hit enter to go. RingTailCat (talk) 11:52, 28 November 2012 (EST)
Thanks Magill! I really see where Turbine wants to sell the more travel writs. You do not buy something without a need, but with this they have a fair chance to s(p)ell out which need you have ;)
From the screenie I presume we do not really have to change much, except 1) to group the tables on region and move it to column one, 2) to group on non-swift and swift (or vice versa), and 3) to sort on destination A-Z within each such group ... I believe it is much more user friendly to group swift versus non-swift even if that is not the in-game sorting style, but as RTC said elsewhere, some stuff we do adds value. In any other respect our current layout is a perfect match. There is no need to move or change the "swift" indicator we have (having it in third column as we have makes it stand out the better), and we have columns for "cost" and "notes" which we cannot change in any feasible way, can we?
The good thing is that each stable-master we visit we will now see all travelling options right away and we may keep them 100% updated. Including possible restrictions. And Turbine may sell the more writs :-)
-- Zimoon (talk) 12:22, 28 November 2012 (EST)
PS: I made a try with two styles at User:Zimoon/Sand-box-Stable-master-U9. I wonder if not the second with sorting on destinations rather than grouping on swift/non-swift is better, or...? Eregion is the best to compare with in this example (from Rivendell Valley). -- Zimoon (talk) 13:13, 28 November 2012 (EST)
BTW, I have had some tables for travel locations and travel routes in my sand box for a while: Travel Locations and Travel Routes. Some parts are a bit out of date, but I have lately added some new data for East Rohan. As it happens, I do not mind looking at large tables of data. I actually created those initially in a spreadsheet. One of the things I wanted to be able to discover was "How do I get here?".
It looks like there is some kind of travel currency accounting at the bottom right corner, but I could not get it to do anything for me.
-- RingTailCat (talk) 13:35, 28 November 2012 (EST)
Maybe it is time to create our own map similar to the one that is annotated in German? I have no idea what things this site supports, if anybody with web programming skills could make it somewhat interactive? Kind of, click at starting point, click at destination, and something highlights possible routes? A map as an image would be nice, but somewhat interactive would be a killer ;)
-- Zimoon (talk) 16:50, 28 November 2012 (EST)

There is at least one Plugin which does that -- Travel Locations reference (aka TR). There are a couple of Travel Plugins. One simply tracks your icons and the other gives a "trip calculator."

I also have a spread sheet which contains "all" of the routes up through RoI. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 17:43, 28 November 2012 (EST)

One "cool" change -- you can now start your travel with a stable master while mounted. You will dismount your steed and re-mount the Stable-master's mount! Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 18:38, 28 November 2012 (EST)

On the subject of "monetisation"

Stay Tuned -- On the 19th, the week before the big layoff on the 25th ...

"Zynga alumni Jai Singh joins as the executive director of technical operations, in charge of Turbine's technical infrastructure and network operations, while ex-Petroglyph Games member Demetrius Comes fills the role of executive director of engineering, where he will oversee "all engineering functions for the studio's project development team."

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 12:49, 28 November 2012 (EST)