Talk:Lotro-Wiki Contributors' Corner

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Welcome to the 2018 Talk Page of Contributors' Corner

  • Here you can ask questions and/or discuss general issues concerning LotRO-Wiki.
  • Discussions regarding a specific article should be directed to its talk page.
  • Please remember to sign and date your post by typing -- ~~~~ (four tildes) or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar!
  • Start new discussion!


New Discord Server

I would like to thank Technical 13 for starting a discord server and showing us its value. As such we have decided to create an official Lotro-wiki discord server using the same ranking system we have here on the wiki. Rogue4ever has been chosen to be the owning director of our discord server. --Lotroadmin (talk) 05:44, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

New Discord Server Followup

We understand there has been a lot of confusion with the appearance of a second discord server in association with Lotro-wiki, We want to be transparent and lay to rest what has transpired:
Technical_13 started a discord server for Lotro-wiki and presented it to everyone. The Administrators saw that it was a great idea for communicating among each other and the community.
Since Technical_13’s rank was only a Ninja and not an administrator or higher, we asked him to pass ownership of the discord server to one of our Directors in order to make sure it was managed in accordance to how the wiki is managed.
Unfortunately, Technical_13’s decision was to keep ownership of the server. We asked that he make his server a personal one to make way for our Official discord server to be created and managed by the wiki leadership.
If anyone has any questions or concerns please contact one of the Directors either here or in our discord server. Thank you! Rogue (talk) 02:51, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Lotro-wiki shoutout by Massively OP

Justin Olivetti praised our work in the latest LOTRO Legendarium. Keep up the good job, guys! http://massivelyop.com/2018/02/03/lotro-legendarium-the-10-best-pages-on-lotro-wiki --Ravanel (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Inside Amazon's $250M 'Lord of the Rings' Deal: "Very Much a Creature of the Times"

APRIL 05, 2018 8:00am PT by Tatiana Siegel - Hollywood Reporter

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/how-lord-rings-tv-series-landed-at-amazon-not-netflix-1099213?ex_cid=SigDig

After battling Netflix for rights to bring the popular series to the small screen, the network's groundbreaking negotiation guaranteed a five-season commitment of J.R.R. Tolkien's adaptation, making it the "most expensive TV series ever."

Nearly 45 years after his death, J.R.R. Tolkien scored the biggest Hollywood deal of 2017. Since the British author doesn't return t e l e p h o n e calls anymore, it took a phalanx of lawyers and dealmakers to bring to fruition what is poised to be the most expensive TV show ever.

On Nov. 13, Amazon Studios beat out Netflix for a $250 million rights deal with the Tolkien estate, publisher HarperCollins and New Line Cinema that includes a five-season commitment to bring The Lord of the Rings to the small screen. With the clock ticking, Amazon must be in production within two years, according to the terms of the pact. When production expenses like casting, producers and visual effects are factored in, the series is expected to cost north of $1 billion.

Within weeks of Amazon chief Jeff Bezos' directive last September to his since-ousted content chief Roy Price to bring in the next Game of Thrones, negotiations were underway that also involved publisher HarperCollins and New Line. Greenberg Glusker attorney Matt Galsor, who served as the chief architect of the deal and repped the Tolkien estate, was hammering out terms that include a potential spinoff.

"This is the most complicated deal I've ever seen," Galsor says, "but it was handled relatively quickly, in a way that brought the parties together in a close relationship. It was tough, but everybody liked each other and felt like a team more as the deal closed."

Dan Scharf, Amazon's head of television business affairs, ran point for the streaming giant. New Line and parent Warner Bros. never had TV rights to Rings, but Amazon may use material from the films, so New Line president and chief content officer Carolyn Blackwood and Warner Bros. Picture Group chairman Toby Emmerich were brought into the talks.

The Tolkien book rights have a long and complicated history. Since the author originally sold rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings to United Artists in 1969, they have at points passed through the hands of MGM, producer Saul Zaentz and Miramax before New Line released Peter Jackson's six mega-hit adaptations, starting in 2001. Those films have earned $5.85 billion worldwide at the box office, underscoring the property's enduring popularity.

As for whether Jackson is involved in the TV series as an executive producer remains to be seen and would be up to him. His attorney Peter Nelson was not a part of the 2017 rights negotiations but recently helped start a dialogue between Jackson and Amazon."It's very much a creature of the times," Nelson says of the Amazon deal. "We are in an era where streamers are bidding up the price of programming. I think Amazon is taking a page out of the studios' emphasis on franchises. They also are realizing that with the overproduction of television, you need to get the eyeballs to the screen, and you can do that with franchise titles."

So far, there's no sign of Bob Weinstein or his estranged brother Harvey trying to elbow their way into the deal. The estranged brothers — the latter embroiled in an epic sex harassment and abuse scandal that was unfolding as the Amazon deal-making was in high gear — could have made noise. After all, they inked an agreement with New Line in 1998 while they controlled the Tolkien film rights at Miramax.

The Weinsteins were profit participants in the Rings trilogy, and they used their 1998 agreement as the basis to sue for a piece of the Hobbit films. Ultimately, they collected $12.5 million from the first Hobbit film, but nothing from the next two releases. "We won," says a studio source, "and they didn't get a dime for two or three."

Still, at least one deal insider wouldn't be surprised if either of the Weinsteins surfaced in the future to make a claim.

A version of this story first appeared in the April 4 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. To receive the magazine

(Nasty spam filter)

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 15:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Problem in Template:Item Tooltip

I don't have permission to change it so I ask here. There is a

{{#switch: {{lc:{{{bind}}}}}

that has 2 problems:

  1. Options that are not lower case. That means that those options are being ignored. For example: Acquire Account Equip. For these to work they need to be lowercase.
  2. There is also 3 instances of Account, this means that only the first will work and the other 2 are useless.

I did a quick search and all items I saw are using the lower case version (like boa) so probably there aren't any/many items affected by this problem.

Mogafi (talk) 17:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Turns out, there was many instances of items using "bind = Equip". Those weren't showing any binding information on the tooltip.
I changed it so now people might notice it.
Mogafi (talk) 22:45, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

And a second request: I'm working on titles but the template template:Tooltip needs an addition for things to work, the change is minor and doesn't affect anything that is already done.

I have the new version that I need to be put there in user:mogafi/Tooltip, just needs to be copied to template:Tooltip.

I'll add the documentation about it later.

Mogafi (talk) 00:34, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Done and done.
Mogafi (talk) 22:45, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Yea, I know, I'm talking to myself. :p
Mogafi (talk) 22:48, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Rework on titles

I've been working on titles. The templates are all ready.

The next part is editing around 1125 articles using {{Title Reward}} and editing around 1380 using {{Infobox Titles}}. I expect to do most of this with a bot; I'll get there eventually.

Also fixing a few titles that are kind of "lost". And adding the titles that are missing.

Comments and thoughts are welcome.

Mogafi (talk) 23:28, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Hmmm... I assume the primary goal here is to generate a Pop-up tooltip for the title. And to make categorizing things a bit easier.
Don't foget to create a "/doc" page (I started one with some basic boilerplate, you will have to edit/correct what I've created) and that the Template:Tooltip doc page also needs a matching update, as well as Category:Titles - which is nominally the help page.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 19:10, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
The objective is to completely replace all the templates related to titles. There are too many and the information is scattered. From now on, the articles themselves can be used as templates, just like items and skills to display their information.
Mogafi (talk) 23:54, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Things are progressing. :) Mogafi (talk) 22:50, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Done!
Just missing a small change to {{Deed}} and then off I go to the PvP ones.
Mogafi (talk)

Item stats are way off

Each time a character levels up, I use the recipe pages in this Wiki to determine whether I can craft better equipment for the character than it has equipped.

Today, I crafted the following items:

Item:Bright Gold Ring
Item:Bright Gold Necklace
Item:Thick Dwarf-make Cotton Shoes

I was (pleasantly) shocked that the actual stats of all three crafted items were much higher than stated on the respective pages of each item in this Wiki.

Then, I became very concerned. How many other items should I be crafting but didn't because, according to this Wiki...erroneously, the crafted item would be weaker than the item already equipped? 24hourstopickaname (talk) 21:43, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Things to do / Uncategorized pages

I've cleared out all of the "Uncategorized pages" except for two:

Accessing this page causes an Internal error. I don't know the cause nor how to fix it.
It's an administrator's sandbox page.

24hourstopickaname (talk) 16:59, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I've put Rogue4ever/Test Location in test pages. The other is strange and I can't access it either.
Mogafi (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Errors that need to be corrected on the Item:Small Artisan Scroll page

I apologise for wasting everyone's time, as I have never posted here before and am surely doing everything wrong. However, when doing some research this evening, I noticed that the information on the above-mentioned page was completely inaccurate, specifically with regards to this passage:

This item is used by an Artisan Scholar as a component for the following: Navy Dye Violet Dye Turquoise Dye Refined Athelas Essence Refined Celebrant Salve

After logging into my Scholar and checking her Artisan level recipes, I discovered that in fact, none of those recipes require a guild scroll of any kind. Curious, I checked through every Artisan-level recipe and found that neither the Small Artisan Scroll nor any other kind of scroll was required for any recipe at all at that level.

Is it possible that the Small Artisan Scroll now has no other function? I'm going to go check it's barter value also mentioned on the wiki page, but I'm not holding out a great deal of hope.

Regardless, it would be lovely if one of you professionals could please update the appropriate page to reflect the correct information. :)

Thank you! Khally

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by AlainaBrosna (Contribs • User Talk).

These guild scrolls are only required for Scholar's Guild recipes, appearing in the "(Guild)" sections of the Artisan tier in the Crafting panel. There are non-guild versions of the dye recipes, producing only a single dye instead of 5, but they are in the Expert tier, not Artisan:
    Tier Section Recipe Requires Small Artisan Scroll
    Expert Dyes Navy Dye No
    Expert Dyes Turquoise No
    Expert Dyes Violet Dye No
    Artisan Dyes (Guild) Navy Dye (x5) Yes
    Artisan Dyes (Guild) Turquoise Dye (x5) Yes
    Artisan Dyes (Guild) Violet Dye (x5) Yes
    Artisan Potions (Guild) Refined Athelas Essence (x5) Yes
    Artisan Potions (Guild) Refined Celebrant Salve (x5) Yes
    Artisan Research (Guild) Historical Document of the Dwarf-lords (x5) Yes
    Artisan Research (Guild) Scroll of Lothlórien (x5) Yes
Clearly there is a lot of out-of-date information here on the wiki. SSG usually doesn't give us notice when they change stuff like this. Someone like you is needed to update it to keep the information relevant and useful. You are welcome to take on the task if you have the time and inclination. None of us are professionals; we're all volunteers.
Don't worry about making mistakes. You can learn as you go, and your changes can always be easily undone if necessary.
If you post a comment on a "Talk" page such as this, you should type --~~~~ at the end. That will automatically insert your name and the date, like this: --Thurallor (talk) 18:19, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Scaled items

While going through treasure caches and recording their contents on the wiki, I've noticed that the scaled items in the caches are extremely formulaic. (I'm referring to Lesser/(nothing)/Greater (prefix) (item) of (suffix)-type items, such as Item:Lesser Steadfast Cloak of Evasion.) So, I've decided to record their stats in a table on the page item, as I've seen done on a number of pages. I have also seen the suggestion to simply put the ranges of values in the item tooltip template. However, this does not seem like an optimal approach since it throws away data. So, unless someone figures out a formula for the attribute values, the data has to be kept somewhere.

Due to the formulaic nature of the items, I've made a template to generate the header for the table based on the name of the item: User:Silver_hr/ScaledItemTableStart. It's incomplete, but I'd say fairly close to being able to handle any possible item. What do you guys think about this approach? If there are no objections, I'd like to put the template in the Template namespace and complete it.

With that said, there's also the question of whether there should be a separate page for every such item at all. I could just as easily make a template to generate the appropriate item tooltip for each of the items, just based on the name. By my rough calculations, there are on the order of 3000 different items of this type that can be generated. But in that case, there should be a place to record all the attribute values if a formula for them can't be found. Silver hr (talk) 03:10, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi, it is an idea that has been done before, but due to the issues with maintaining all of the static tables, the wiki moved on to just recording them as scaled. The issues are; huge number of scaled items to maintain; Regular and constant changes in stat values by the developers resulting in the stats being out of date once the next upgrade or combat re-balancing occurs, limited number of wiki editors able and willing to review and update all of the stats for EACH level for all EVERY item, resulting in these tables being out of date and essentially useless almost immediately. The developers apply at least small tweaks in virtually every upgrade. Also, while it may seem like a simple formula, in practice this is not the case.
Your time may be better spent on updating stats for the non-scaling items, or other pages. Noddi (talk) 11:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC) (Wiki Director)
Module:CalcStatTable can create a table with calculated stats. It does not support sell prices, is something to look into, but the other stats should be all available. I shall see if I can create an example table. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 12:07, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
See the item Item:Lesser Steadfast Cloak of Evasion for the table. I'm not completely sure about the Minimum Level, but it seems like a direct mapping from the Item Level - something to be examined. The table is rather large with all item levels from 85 to 449.. That 449 should be defined in a template: Item Level Cap or something. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 12:31, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
Note that the item has stats from ilvl85 and up, but the dropped item levels is something else. area levels 85-95 translate roughly to ilvl 121-173. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 13:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
That looks pretty good, nice work. If you (or someone else) is able to figure out how to calculate the sell price, that would be complete, and there could be a collapsible table on the page of every scalable item (and possibly ranges obtained from Module:CalcStat in the tooltip). Module:CalcStatTable needs a little documentation improvement though; it does not explain the NorC parameter (which looks like what you've used in Item:Lesser Steadfast Cloak of Evasion), and the allowed values for StatName should be included on the page as well.
Since there's already Template:Level_Cap, I don't see a reason to not have a template for Item Level Cap as well.
I also went ahead with generating the Item Tooltip, though it's still not quite complete. I've put some examples here. Still not sure whether it's a better approach than having static pages for each item though. Silver hr (talk) 20:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
Ideally, you only want to display the item levels which actually drop, instead of a huge table which is not good for performance. However, this is complex. You would need to figure out which mobs are dropping the items (loot tables), at what mob level and then you need the right mob level to item level drop table (item defined). For instance: if the Steadfast Cloak only drops from lvl86-95 mobs then you only need to show 10 item levels: 130,135,140,145,150,155,160,165,170 and 177 (I've updated the item's table with those values). --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 22:22, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree that only the relevant portion of the table should be shown, however, I have no idea how to get the data you describe. I can remember getting scaled item drops from Annuminas at level 40, so I assume they can drop at all equip levels (though I'm not sure whether they can drop at all item levels).
Performance optimizations should only be done if performance is actually a problem, though; that's something the server operator should know. If running the calculations is determined to be too expensive, the table can be substed into the page. If, on the other hand, the size of the page with the full table is the problem, there could be an input field for the desired level and a bit of javascript to show the data for that level. Another option might be transclusion if, for example, all Lesser Steadfast items (or types of items) have the same Vitality and Agility, and so on. Silver hr (talk) 04:22, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
I shall see if I can produce that data. I was already thinking about doing some programming in that direction. It will take time. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 08:21, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Awesome. If there's any way I can help (including programming), let me know. Silver hr (talk) 15:12, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
I've posted a burgle item table on Discord. You can find the cloak in there with the Id 1879279636. It can be burgled from mob levels 85 to 104. I've updated the cloak's stat table with the extra item levels. Next to examine would be the normal drops. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 19:18, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I took a look around but I couldn't find the table. Could you be more specific? Silver hr (talk) 16:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm not completely sure yet, but for now it looks like Minimum Level of the item is equal to the mob's level. This would create another problem, because then you need to give the item-defined moblevel->itemlevel table and do a reverse-lookup from the itemlevel to get back to the mob's level. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 22:19, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
For the Worth: it looks like it depends on the item's Class and Equipment Category. This needs much more research. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 22:28, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
I've been entering 35 award lvl -> ilvl tables today. I used 138 lines of CalcStat code for 35*130 values, which is not bad. I also got a reverse lookup function working (to go back from award ilvl -> lvl). Only need to create a Lua script version of it for the CalcStat Module now. You will need award table information for each scalable/drop item, so you can choose the right one. I'll need to create that. You can select one from the 35 tables with a 2 letter code: a primary A to H and a optional secondary A to .. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 18:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I've added some sell value data and now the table for the cloak is complete. I've entered about 14% of total item sell data, much more to go.. --Gisel Avaleazar (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
That was fast, great work! Silver hr (talk) 17:53, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Container/contained items and section order

Hello, new contributor here! Hope I'll be of help. I wanted to contribute some info on a container item (and its content), but I have a couple of doubts that Boilerplate:Item doesn't seem to cover

  1. Should the additional information sections follow the order in Boilerplate:Item for consistency? In other words, if I find a page with a different section order, should I correct it?
  2. After some search, I found that the practice seems to be to open an "Item information" section linking to the respective content or container (for example, Apprentice Jeweller Scroll Case and Agate Bracelet Recipe). Should I add this case to Boilerplate:Item to future helpless new people like yours truly?

--Lucubro (talk) 09:14, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wiki Lucubro!
The item boilerplate provides an easy way to add new items of all sorts in a standard layout, without having to worry about the coding too much. Common items like recipes, crafting materials or task items should follow this standard, but some items can of course deviate from it. I would look up the page of a similar item and copy-paste parts of that page. Since you're a new user, we will verify your edits anyway. If you still have doubts about how you should add information, feel free to ask here or in our Discord (the link can be found on the main page). (RoyalKnight5 (talk) 11:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC))
Got it, thanks for the answer! --Lucubro (talk) 15:52, 4 April 2021 (UTC)