Category talk:People

Purpose of Category?

I'd like to challenge diff To me personally, this category is exclusive to the works of Tolkien. Maybe I am too narrow-minded??? — Zimoon 20:32, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I think it's hard to keep the category exclusive to people that appear somewhere in Tolkien's works. Even if the goal is mostly to mark historical figures and/or canon Tolkien characters, Lotro has done a lot of work with and around canon figures that never had much about them besides a name and maybe a death-date and has also invented entirely their own major historical figures, many of whom are tightly tied to canon figures (Amarthiel and Eärnur for example, or Durin the Deathless and Mótsog for a more recent example).

If the intent is- well, perhaps that's the question. What is the intent of this category? Specifically Tolkien-canon characters and peoples? That's doable, but it will also definitely end up with a bunch of dwarves and a significant chunk of the nobility of Gondor and Rohan thrown in with all the Silmarillion figures here. If it's more meant to be Important Historical Figures, there are definitely some Lotro-specific characters that should be in here. Thalion (talk) 21:11, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Thalion on this. Lotro has expanded the lore quite a bit, often by building further on little hints/allusions in Tolkien's works, so why would you distinguish between 'characters invented by Tolkien and worked out by Lotro' and 'major characters invented by Lotro'?

On another note, should we consider changing the name of this category? 'People' feels a bit general and does not say anything about what the purpose of the category is. —RoyalKnight5 (talk) 07:29, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I can see where it would at the very least be interesting to note if a given npc is a canon character or not, though how useful that would actually be is debatable. As things stand, this is a bit of a mixed category- you've got Silm figures like Fëanor and assorted Ainur and a bunch of groups including various elf-kindreds right beside the pc origin options. These in turn are a mix of things that range from Tolkien-exclusive and haven't been expanded on at all to Lotro-exclusive, but most fall somewhere in between. We could make an attempt to separate out those who are more background information than anything else- the Arnorian kings for example, and Finwë and most of his family- from major figures that actually have a role in the game somewhere but... it's not terribly clear-cut in a lot of cases where that line should be.

As far as renaming the category... I don't really know what else we would use for it? 'Historical Figures' or something similar feels like it would exclude most present-day characters (3018-3019 T.A. 'present-day') and could run into issues with particularly long-lived people. Idk... other thoughts on renaming specifically? Thalion (talk) 06:18, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

As with any category we should always ask about the need and the purpose. Perhaps we should ditch the category altogether? I see no big value in NPCs categorized by massively-involved-in-game. Reading Lore this category should be Tolkien-only, which has a value though for the game itself that value is debatable. So in the end of the day, what is the purpose of Lotro-Wiki? Do as you please! — Zimoon 15:54, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, that page starts out saying Lore is the term used to refer to Tolkien's original work, but I think that's a bit narrow-minded on the wiki of the Lotro MMORPG. Adding other "major plot characters" (whatever that may mean) makes sense to me.

But I wouldn't mind getting rid of the category, as I feel it is going to remain vague what can or cannot belong to it. —RoyalKnight5 (talk) 11:39, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

So looking at what's in People already- after taking out anyone who shows up as an npc and the pc origins, we're left with about 70 pages still. If we get rid of People entirely, would we want to just bump all or most of the remaining pages to the general Lore category (something I do think we still need- lots of relevant and/or game-specific information there)? I know that wouldn't be Tolkien-only info, but it's gotten a lot harder to extricate game lore from original Tolkien lore since that category was first put together. -- Thalion (talk) 23:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Now it sounds like we are talking another topic: Should Lore stay? Or not?

Maybe "Lore" is what we should discuss first? And then it follows naturally with the sub-categories?

— Zimoon 16:54, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Aye- we've got some of the same issues in Lore overall and its other subcategories as we're having here, though I think it's most pronounced in People. (Category: Places I think we'll end up with a similar conversation as People)

Lore as a category I think is very useful- it's a good catch-all category for things like Rings of Power or Battle of Five Armies- things with a lot of story and world-building relevance. It's less immediately relevant for specifically gameplay-related things, but people don't come here only for gameplay reasons. I'm in favor of keeping the general Lore category at the very least.

-- Thalion (talk) 21:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)