Ooo, a bot would be lovely! :) Looking at these results...the 'catching' of different heights does get frustrating, but I'm not sure of a good way to fix that. When working with the Cosmetics pages awhile ago, there was a similar issue with images doing that and the experts helped find a way to fix it (discussion here), but it was quite a bit above my head xD I believe it had something to do with floating? Grouping, on the other hand is very easy -- if you look at Mature Black-bear it's drops were grouped by mob level, the same technique could be used for different categories depending on the drops. However, to use the bot it would all need to be the exact same, correct? So perhaps just do so as you did in the test and then manually see which pages are large enough to warrant groups? I shudder to think how many different mobs pages there are with x amount of drops a piece so a bot would really be wonderful. Related to this...is the ask queries on the actual item pages...but one step at a time is better so scratch that for now :D--Savi (talk) 00:38, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
- I've tried my best to come up with a solution on the height 'catch', but I simply cannot make it work. However, among all the different testing, I did have an idea. Personally, the drop sections on mobs seem unneccessarily large, particularly on mobs with lots of different drops as in the one you tested here. Most players familiar with the game recognize certain icons, particulary for crafting mats. And with the handy hover over you can see the full tooltip in a second if you don't(or click to look at the item page itself). On my sandbox I put a section of the drops as they appear now as well as 2 other different formats. I think the Test 1 option would be an improvement. It allows a much quicker appraisal of drop options. Obviously the 'grouped by' terms should be decided and applied more consistantly throughout the wiki, and there may be a less wordy way to code it, but format visual is the first step. Opinions?
- --Savi (talk) 14:06, 20 May 2013 (EDT)
- I like test 1 - it is neat and clean, very concise, but then I'm thoroughly familiar with the icons. The alternative might be more friendly to our newer or casual uses. Hover to see the detail, if you want or need to. Both are good ideas!
- Of course, due to the high visibility of the drop information, we should have a bit of a discussion of the relative merits of these three layouts before proposing any sweeping changes.
- - RingTailCat (talk) 14:22, 20 May 2013 (EDT)
- The hover effect works for both Test1 and 2; Just depends on if the actual text is desired. Technically the Test2 has 2 hover effects, one for the icon and one for the text. I would like to keep the organization moving but totally agree with discussion needed - is there a better place to move such a discussion or just continue it here? Though I have to work a bit on my patience, I imagine it makes more sense to wait on the property tags until this is decided and do it all in one 'swoop' so to speak.
- --Savi (talk) 15:13, 20 May 2013 (EDT)
- I think the hover effect looks much better, personally. Being a more concise list you can just skim through the icons or names and just look the detailed info on what you want to, instead of going through all the boxes to try to find something. I also think test 2 looks better, even if you're familiar with icons there's always the issue of different colors for tiers and that takes a while to memorize, its easier to just read the name in those and other cases, or even just merely to have the reinforcement of having the name by the side of the icon, even if you know what it is.
- Gwenwyfar (talk) 13:36, 21 May 2013 (EDT)
- Keep in mind that Icons are no longer Unique -- either in-game or on the WIKI.
- Also, many of those situations should be using either the templates
- Cooldown: 5s
or Reward rather than includng "imlink" entries.
Icons are not always unique these days, but the item hovers relate to the unique item pages, so in this instance that is not relevant. The lootbox template is currently being used on many mob pages for drops, that is the secondary reason for this discussion. Having an item's tooltip being displayed there seems superfluous and unconcise. So other options are being presented. The reward template provides the same visual as Test2, so the only difference is the coding. If Test2 is the one that we proceed with, I'd like to look into the possibility of at least 2 columns rather than whitespace...but the first step is to decide what visual to proceed with. As for the Has Drop addition...that is the whole reason this discussion got started in the first place, lol. Yes it has a purpose, the property tag allows (or will) the item page to automatically find all the locations that item drops from rather than manually coding it. There are obviously tons of mobs that drop items, hence the welcome offer from RingTailCat to put a bot on it. --Savi (talk) 15:57, 21 May 2013 (EDT)
- For convenience of making a decision -- please adjust if I entered wrongly, decisions change, etc
Original: Type 1: Savi, RingTailCat Type 2: Gwenwyfar
- Sorry for being a bit impatient...but would like to keep this project moving while I have the free time...The 'reinforcement' of having the item name accompany the icon does have a small benefit I suppose; however, the mob pages themselves are already scrollworthy with their own template and location. For mobs with a lot of drops (which the tests are only a small piece of the sample drops), the amount of scrolling needed for the length may get a bit ridiculous...The 'column' that Magill posted underneath the tests is actually a table, which I really don't want to utilize; The more complicated the coding the harder it is for newbie editors to figure out and contribute. Plus, making it a table makes the column size static (your browser size has no impact on the number of columns), and if a single drop needs removing you will have to also fix a blank hole in the table...just not ideal.
- I am also thinking...do many people use monster pages to find specific drops? ie If I am looking for a 'Light Hide' I will go to the item page and see where to get it, then go to a specific mob page to find that mob's location, I've actually not used the drop section myself for finding things (on the mob page). Hence why I figured it would be better to simply show the icons. Browsing for the sake of curiosity can still show the item name and details on click or hover, but it saves a LOT of space that is probably not needed....
- --Savi (talk) 11:53, 23 May 2013 (EDT)
- See: Talk:Lotro-Wiki_Contributors'_Corner#An_ongoing_debate
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:12, 23 May 2013 (EDT)
- Not entirely sure if there is a particular question in there...but I was not trying to imply that the drop section on the mob pages should be eliminated, only that it should be simplified and used as a reference for the item pages themselves...
- At this point in time, what is your opinion on the property bot RingTail? The formatting issue seems to be a bit more sensitive than I anticipated. If long-term discussion on that topic is still desired, is it possible to simply have the property tags inserted now, leaving the format alone?
- --Savi (talk) 14:50, 23 May 2013 (EDT)
- Please see Template talk:Lootbox#New version of template using Has Drop property for the latest developments. RingTailCat (talk) 08:35, 5 June 2013 (EDT)