User talk:Kadi/Archive

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Promoted! --Lotroadmin (talk) 23:09, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Hi! I noticed you filling in a lot of gaps in Westfold crafting. Thanks for doing that - keep up the good work! :D -- Elinnea (talk) 09:32, 7 November 2011 (EST)

Thanks! I'm still learning how to update and the like, but I'm enjoying helping fill in the info! Kadi (talk) 09:44, 7 November 2011 (EST)

Cheers for filling in some missing LM values! --Ravanel (talk) 07:54, 10 January 2012 (EST)

Relic master edit on Legendary Items

I noticed your addition to the Legendary Items page. I have three questions --

My first question is, is it a correct statement?

I know you can "decon" Legendary Items into "Relics" and then "refine" the Relics into "Shards," but I've never encountered the ability to simply "exchange" any LI directly for Shards.

Which also then applies to the statement below the one you just added --

My second question is ... is this section of the article talking about "Leveled" LIs or simply "LI drops";

and the third; can exchanges be done with non-class LIs. (i.e. all the Relic Master will do for a Hunter with a Minstrel SOng book is to Decon it.)

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 20:49, 16 January 2012 (EST)
You're misunderstanding what it says - you give them shards, they give you LI's. That's the way all the old info was worded (what you get for what you give) and I continued that language for now. I'm planning on adjusting it in the future to make it more explicit, but I haven't had as much time to work on the wiki as I'd like. Same for the skirmish vendor - you give them marks, they give you unidentified LI's. And you can only trade for your own class items. Hope that explains it! Kadi (talk) 00:02, 17 January 2012 (EST)
My tiny comment is bordering to out-of-topic ;)
It took me quite some confusion years ago to learn that 'exchange Y for X' meant 'giving X and getting Y' ... the meaning of the sentence felt wrong and I often understood (and probably said) it wrong. But, the sentence is still correct of course, just that if some players (foreigners or not) get it wrong we could reword it, maybe "receive Y for X" makes it clearer?
Zimoon (talk) 01:55, 17 January 2012 (EST)
I tried changing it to 'will accept X in exchange for Y' - you give X, you get Y. I'm still not sure that's clear enough, especially for ESL speakers. It's kind of an awkward thing to say! Perhaps 'will accept X and give you Y' would be clearest?
Kadi (talk) 02:22, 17 January 2012 (EST)
Personally I have learned so I get it, just wanted to say that for some readers... eeh, you get the idea :P Zimoon (talk) 11:53, 17 January 2012 (EST)

Hmmm... I am not an ESL person, but am one who does a lot of reading, writing and editing in both English-English and American-English (my native) and as such realize that the Brits in particular, "have a funny way of talking. (...a zebra crossing indeed!)" And, having had 4 years of German one in high school (many,many long years ago), I can understand where the idea (vocalized in a popular song) that you - "Throw Mamma from the train a Kiss" - comes from. :) [Not to mention coming from Philadelphia where vowels used to be taught as: "A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y and W" - for all the Welch folks in the area. -- Which is also why I'm right at home in Dunland! :)]

At any rate, for the "original" wording:

* A Relic-master will exchange level 55, 60, or 65 Third Age legendary items for Shards.

to be interpreted as - will exchange shards for LIs - is in fact a technically correct, but hardly contemporary, conversational usage. (Needless to say, I did not interpret it that way when I first read it.)

To "diagram" the sentence:

A Relic Master (subject)
will exchange (verb)
Legendary Items (object of verb)
for shards (Adverbial phrase - describing "how the exchange will take place)

The actual meaning is two declarative sentences - "The relic master will accept shards." and "For which the relic master will give you LIs.

The meaning with your revised wording is more understandable,

A Relic-master will accept Shards in exchange for level 55, 60, or 65 Third Age legendary items

But I would have written a compound sentence:

  • A Relic-master will accept shards and give you unidentified level 55, 60, or 65 Third Age legendary items (applicable to your class) in return.
  • The Legendary Item Vendor in Skirmish Camps will accept Marks and give you in exchange, unidentified level 75 Third Age legendary items applicable to your class.

Or reverting to the third person perspective - point of view of the Player rather than of the Relic Master, which is probably preferable:

But that form doesn't fit well in a list.


One side comment... "Brevity" is usually only possible when one speaks a "common" (with the party being communicated with) arcane language - like Lawyers or Doctors. Which ONLY they understand. "Geek Speak," if you will.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 15:49, 17 January 2012 (EST)
I think I like the 'compound sentence' versions best. I agree the the last one is possibly the most explicit, but yes, doesn't sound right in a list.
And brevity is something I struggle with, as I tend to ramble on and on and on if I don't aim for it.  :P Kadi (talk) 21:49, 17 January 2012 (EST)

Sentient vs Humanoid

I believe that all MOBs in LOTRO are "Sentient" - responsive to or conscious of sense impressions - but I believe that ONLY Humanoid MOBs drop LIs, I.e. Wargs, Bears, etc. do not.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 15:49, 17 January 2012 (EST)
Perhaps the key difference is that the mobs which drop LIs, fight with weapons, while those that do not, fight with their original equipment - claws, teeth, etc. RingTailCat (talk) 16:09, 17 January 2012 (EST)
I think Humanoid is probably the easiest word to use? You're right, sentient isn't the right choice. And that's probably what Turbine is going for, RTC.  :) Kadi (talk) 21:45, 17 January 2012 (EST)

Strange, probable bug

Don't know if this is a bug or simply an artifact of the recent currency conversion.

At the Skirmish Camp in Brockinborings, the Legendary Item's vendor has two "apparently identical" (same tooltips) "Symbol of Celembrimbor" -- one for 344 Marks and 18 Medallions and the other for 172 Marks and 78 Medallions. One presumes that since 1 Medallion=3 Marks, the first symbol is slightly cheaper, 344 marks vs an equilivant of 352.

You can exchange Medallions for Marks at the Currency Exchange trader, but not Marks for Medallions. So, I wonder if Medallions are simply that much easier to get?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 15:49, 17 January 2012 (EST)