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Previous Talk Page archives can be found at:
file name covers date range
Archive 1 May 2011 to August 2011
Archive 2 August 2011 - November 2011
Archive 3 Liquid Threads (LQT) stuff - no data
Archive 4 September 2012 - December 2012
Archive 5 January 2013 - December 2013
Archive 6 January 2014 - December 2014
Archive 7 January 2015 - December 2015
Archive 8 January 2016 - December 2016
Archive 9 January 2017 - December 2017
Archive 10 January 2018 - December 2018
  • Being the Archive of my Talk page - May 2011 to August 2011

Category Tree

Not sure if you saw the reply on my page or not. Either way, I wrote that quickly before I went to bed so I'll try and make it a bit clearer here.

For the categorytree to work, you need to have all the creatures you want it to show included in the same category, eg. Category:Isendeep Mine Creatures for the Isendeep Mine page. If the category doesn't exist already, you'll need to create it. Once the category exists, you put the name of that category inside the <categorytree mode=all onlyroot=on></categorytree> brackets, eg. <categorytree mode=all onlyroot=on>The Delving of Frór Creatures</categorytree> gives:

So once you've made the Isendeep Mine Creatures category you would put <categorytree mode=all onlyroot=on>Isendeep Mine Creatures</categorytree>, and it should show up properly. Hope that was a bit clearer. Amphoras (talk) 10:50, 8 June 2011 (EDT)

Being a shutterbug in the Moors

Phew... I've just spent the past couple of days running around the Moors playing "japanese tourist" ... :) Taking screenshots of all the "interesting places" and fascinating people. All as a Freep! So, I probably now have all of the "missing folk" to add to pages, etc.

One thing which I will post shortly is the updated, annotated map of the Moors. When I was considering the second edition with more visible type, etc. I discovered that there were several additional "features" on the map that because of the "fog of war" syndrom, I did not even realize that I didn't know about them...

Trying to write up a global description of the Moors has been fun... reading and re-reading all of the various Dev notes, forum postings and release notes, trying to find out which things which existed in 2008 no longer exist and which ones have been modified.

Aha well, back to the grinding. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 02:13, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

Hardware replacements

Sigh. The past 10 days or has seen a succession of hardware problems culminating in my replacing my iMac with a new one... and slowly putting the pieces back together again. (I have to blame everything on the fact that we had our first heat-wave (90+F for 3 consecutive days) of the season two weeks ago.)

Old system:

iMac6,1 Core 2 Duo [2.16GHz - 3 GB 667] OS X 10.6.4 (Circa 2007)
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT- 256MB

New system:

iMac11,3 Core i7 [2.93GHz - 4 GB 1333]OS X 10.6.7 (Circa 2010)
ATI Radeon HD 5750 - 1024MB

is actually quite a joy. Major in-game performance improvement -- Jumped from an average of about 20FPS to 60+!

Oh well, back to work on the moors.

Edhelharn Token updates

Someone mentioned to me that the WIKI entries for various Edhelharn Token tool-tips had funny cool-downs ... yup..

Matched them all to my Jeweller toon ... and added an itemization list on the token page.

The changed cooldowns are currently bugged. They should still be the same as they previously were and this is going to be fixed in the next patch. See link Amphoras (talk) 09:25, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
I just saw the announcement in today's "release" notes for Monday's patch.... however, they don't indicate what the cooldown corrections will be -- as they mention one for each of the crit tokens, and I can't say that I ever remember any of them being ONLY 15 minutes. ...must have been broken for a long time.
It will also be interesting to see what happens to the LACK of difference between the T5 Crit and T6 non-crit tokens ... other than level.... Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 20:38, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
* item:Glorious Edhelharn Token
* Item:Sparkling Edhelharn Token

Deleting Pages

Hi there, I saw your note on the talk page for the picture of Golloval which had the wrong name. If you want a page deleted, you can just add {{Delete Page}} to it, and that will put it in Category:Articles for deletion so someone with deletion rights can do so when they see it. Amphoras (talk) 08:21, 20 June 2011 (EDT)

Remember to use {{Delete Page}} rather than {{Delete}} or it won't be put in Articles for deletion. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 15:13, 1 July 2011 (EDT)

Ettenmoors update page done

Please check out User:Magill/Sandbox -- the updated page for the Ettenmoors.

As soon as I get a "readable" (i.e.larger type) version of the Annotated Map done, I'll upload it and the page will be ready to replace the current page.

Let me know if any comments.

I realized that much of what I was adding to the Moors really belonged in the Monster Play page so that is now in User:Magill/Sandbox-7. This is especially true as the more or less official rumor is that there will be an additional F2P PvMP area included with Isengard.

Bullroarer (apparently) does not yet have anything but the Update3 Patch 1 information yet. I can't tell at the moment if it is up or not, it does not seem to be.

Preferred syntax for Quest inserts and ???

I noticed a couple of recent updates where changes went from

* [[Quest:Assault on Tol Ascarnen]] to * [[Quest:Assault on Tol Ascarnen|Assault on Tol Ascarnen]]

Other than finding this usage in various pages, I don't recall seeing it (or any of the insert tags) documented anywhere.

1- Are they documented?

2- I gather that the second form: <name-of-quest>|<text to be displayed> should be used all the time, rather than just when different text is needed?

Hopefully I can help with both of your questions here. First, I think it's "preferred" that quest links, like item links (these are the only two commonly used namespaces - aside from the main one - off the top of my drowsy head), appear without the "Quest:" bit in front. To accomplish this (relating to your second point), we use the pipe - | - character to display alternate text, as you mentioned. A shortcut that a few editors use is to just enter the wikilink as normal ([[Quest:Assault on Tol Ascarnen]]) but with a pipe between the text and closing brackets ([[Quest:Assault on Tol Ascarnen|]]). In MediaWiki documentation, this is known as the pipetrick and will automatically substitute the name of the article you're linking to without the namespace.
Because of this substitution, it might look as if editors are adding <text-to-be-displayed> (from your example above) to every link, but it's more a matter of the pipe being added to the end to prevent the Quest: part of the link from displaying. Hope this clarifies somewhat - it's kind of a vague area. :) Sethladan 16:46, 23 June 2011 (EDT)
Surprisingly, at least to me, it makes perfect sense.... must be my Unix background :) I'll have to remember that "pipe trick" Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 17:14, 23 June 2011 (EDT)
Whoo-hoo! Sometimes it feels like I'm inventing my own language when I try to explain things and it comes out all backwards to people. :) Glad your background helps here - namespaces are/were originally a Unix thing, right? Sethladan 18:11, 23 June 2011 (EDT)
I noticed you're changing the Species to Regmyl. I think the entry for Species is meant to be the singular. For orcs, its entered as Orc, goblins its Goblin, bears its Bear, etc. Amphoras (talk) 19:53, 23 June 2011 (EDT)
duh ... Guess I got it backwards ...main page is plural, with a singular redirect! ... I still haven't figured out what causes (or should cause) in the templates (boilerplates) causes entries in the appropriate categories, other than sticking the [[Category:xxx]] on a page ... thought that would have done it, but it didn't! Easy enough to change. I'll see if I see anything change, when I change the entry Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 20:05, 23 June 2011 (EDT)
What happens is in the creature template, it looks at what has been entered for species and if its on the list it puts it in the correct category. Here's the part that does it:
{{#if: {{{species|}}}
   |{{#switch: {{{species|}}}     
     blah blah blah, don't need all of them
     | River-maid    = [[Category:River-maids]]
     | Roots         = [[Category:Roots]]
     | Rogmul        = [[Category:Regmyl]]
     | Sabertooth    = [[Category:Saber-tooth Cats]]
     | Salamander    = [[Category:Salamanders]]
     miss out some more
     | Wraith        = [[Category:Wraiths]]
     | Unique        = [[Category:Unique Creatures]]
     | #default      = [[Category:Stubs/Mob]]
So when you've entered "species = Rogmul" on the creature's page, it goes through this list, finds Rogmul is on it and adds [[Category:Regmyl]] to the page. If whatever has been entered for species (or if nothings entered) doesn't match anything on the list, it puts the default entry, [[Category:Stubs/Mob]]. As it expects the singular, putting Regmyl means it won't put it in the correct category, and will instead mark it as a Stub/Mob. Hope that helps. Amphoras (talk) 20:19, 23 June 2011 (EDT)

New Dev Diary for Isengard... big changes in stat infor

It would really be nice if Turbine dated their Dev Diary entries on some kind of regular basis

I saw that. I don't even want to think about how much editing and updating work that's going to make for us on top of the new content. Oy. Sethladan 19:26, 24 June 2011 (EDT)
As far as when content gets added to the wiki? Not really - there's no "deadline" for things around here. Stuff just goes up when it goes up; that's the nature of volunteer community editing. We're still missing tons of things, doubtlessly, from the original Shadows of Angmar release, for example. Sethladan 20:56, 24 June 2011 (EDT)

And now for something completely different

I happen to have the complete Turbine Released LOTRO soundtrack. (As well as what they released for DDO.)

The 61 MP3 tracks were released back sometime in 2009 as part of their trial of the (now failed) Turbine Download Manager (TDM). (nominally a 337meg zip file)


The soundtrack for Lord of the Rings Online has received much praise for its quality and variety. It features compositions from acclaimed video game composer Chance Thomas as well as original songs from Turbine. According to Thomas, all references that were made to the music of the peoples of Middle-earth in the books were used to extrapolate as much information as possible about the instruments and styles that each race would have used to create their music. This information was then used as the base for creating the score. Additionally, 61 songs from the game were made available for free in mp3 format using a download manager released by Turbine.

Both are available from my website...

... just thought I'd mention it. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:37, 24 June 2011 (EDT)

Dev blog for Isengard/PvMP updates...

Once again, Serendipity strikes.... Kelsen is either the lead or simply the "front" for PvMP development...

Allan "Orion" Maki is apparently another major player on the PvMP development team

His blog contains comments on the upcoming changes.


LOTRO forum thread.

And I don't know why I didn't see/read this before:

(I wish Turbine would date these...) [This one apparently appeared on 21 June based on the Forum thread]

Looks like Item templates will need to be revised:

New Stat – Finesse

For all of those players who think the random number generator has it out for them this is the stat for you. Finesse is a ratings-based stat that will directly reduce the Resistance of monsters as well as their Block/Parry/Evade ratings. This stat will appear primarily on instance/raid/pvmp loot but there will be a few pieces available with Finesse from quests and crafting.

This new stat is a two sided weapon because monsters will have access to it also. Most landscape monsters won’t have much if any Finesse but expect high difficulty instance/raid Boss monsters to have quite a bit.

Some major changes to Infobox MP-NPC

Hey magill,
I started to work on that template yesterday and I did some major changes to the image parameter to be consistent to most of the other templates (e.g. Creature) and I also added some more categories to the template in order to save you a lot of work (I saw that you manually added categories). Both parameters have been/are changed by Amphora's Bot and should be working now. --EoD (talk) 11:44, 2 July 2011 (EDT)

  • Great!! (I think).... still trying to figure out a lot of this WIKI stuff ... "I think I understand" :) I guess the main thing I don't comprehend is the Image parameter "stuff"... i.e. what did the change do?
  • Also, am I to understand that I should no longer find pages with {{PAGENAME}} visible? (or in fact {{subst:PAGENAME}}) since that string gets replaced on save.
  • Before you had to enter a long string like {{{image|[[Image:{{PAGENAME}}.jpg{{!}}150px]]}}}, but now you can leave it blank as it defaults to the {{{name}}} parameter. You should only use it, if the image file is different than the name, as in Falgashud.
  • Yeah, we got also rid of {{PAGENAME}}, thanks to Amphoras!
Please try to sign your posts on talk pages with --~~~~, so we can all read who posted it ;). Greetings --EoD (talk) 19:57, 2 July 2011 (EDT)

Item Set template/boilerplate

  • Found another template which should also get {{subst:PAGENAME}} ... "create item set from Help page" -- has a blank "name=" parameter.
  • Also, the sample data/explanation presented by this "item set" template is confusing/confused.
  • It indicates and item "stats" and another "effects" but does not show or provide them in the template
  • It has a parameter "Sockets" which makes no sense at all (unless it is attempting to reflect Legendary Item "rune" sockets.
  • "Pieces" instructs to use {{loot}} but template shows {{loot|Item:}}
  • The Template does not place "all" items into the edit window -- Description/Source /Items and Lootbox
  • After all that, the template does not format/display information provided or correctly --- unclear at the moment if this will change as I create the individual components
Logic would seem to say create the set first, but who knows.

This template is very weird -- I have several things on the Jewels of the Defender page that "don't work," or apparently don't work correctly.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:43, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

You missed out the onlyinclude tags, and in the {{loot|quality|Item:blah}} you can't just put {{loot|quality|Item:blah|}} like if its a wiki link, you need to put {{loot|quality|Item:blah|blah}}. Remember to add the quality of the items as well. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 17:05, 4 July 2011 (EDT)
Only include tags??? I just worked with what appeared in the edit window from the "create" page. Missed them in the comments at the top
Quality? is that what <caption> means?Oops never mind - caption is from the lootbox
  • Sigh, just did the Fem quests and was looking at that to figure this out... oops... that is now no longer accurate numbers (and left out medium and light -- which, of course, means there should probably be 3 entries -- light medium heavy, and maybe a "overall" 4th one?
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 17:47, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

Items which are left justified

Items get left justified, if the value of "disambigpage" and your current pagename don't coincide (that's why we also have to use & #39; instead of just '). Just check and decide which value is the corrent one ;) --EoD (talk) 19:58, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

interesting. I clicked on a link from the "Jewels of the Defender" page, to open a new page to create the "Defender's Bracelet" ... however, I did notice that it did not put up the "normal

no page exists create it page with the open window, but rather one with a "Create" tab at the top.

Now that you have mentioned it, the "created" page does not have the apostrophe. Any idea what happened?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 20:01, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

ARGH.... found the issue ... punctuation missing on the Jewels of the Defender page! Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 20:06, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

Ettenmoors icons

Hey magill.
I made a screenshot with a lot of ettenmoors icons, but I don't remember what icon belongs to what item. Can you help me identifying the items so I can upload the icons for the wiki? Would be great :) --EoD (talk) 12:06, 19 July 2011 (EDT)

Most of them seem to be "generic" items -- collected by both Freeps and creeps -- Greenwood logs branches, sacks of food, hoarwood ale.
I'm guessing that the "bloody leg/foot" is the "hobbit-leg" you just turned in.
Let me go see what I've got that matches. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:33, 19 July 2011 (EDT)
See User:Magill/Sandbox-answer Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:21, 19 July 2011 (EDT)
Thanks. I will upload the new icons asap :) --EoD (talk) 08:09, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Mis/Confused classifications of Epic line and Intro Line

Here I am trying to get ready for Vol III and the Isengard update.... and I trip on yet another "clean-up" issue.

I started to update the random "Halbarad (Rivendell)" like items, discovered that the corresponding Epic Volume III "stuff" wasn't near complete... and opened yet another can of worms. Sigh

[Needless to say, I get bugged by consistency ...:)]
1- The "easy" issue -- none of the Volume 1 quests are so labeled ... they are simply "Book 1," "Book 2," etc.
2- The "almost easy" issue -- those that are labeled use "Vol." instead of "Volume." Not a biggie, but is is a consistency issue, especially when one begins to try to add the nonexistent "questchain" parameter and goes looking for the appropriate quests.
3- There are Epic Quests and there are Category:Epic Quests
4- Then there is Category:Introduction Quests, which only has a "Bree-land Introduction Quests" sub-section which itself is ok, but many of the quests in it are cross linked as "Epic Quests," which they are not... except the ones which are and are NOT intro quests.... sigh.

So, concerning the redundancies introduced in the major Ered Lune and Shire updates (and both old and new quests are there). I can, I think identify the "originals" as almost all of my toons were created before those updates. So my Quest Logs should tell me about Men/Dwarves/Elves -- never did a Hobbit. I'll get around to tagging those quests in their descriptions.

BTW: Does anyone know a way to "dump" the quest log? It's really painful to have to copy and past one teeny-tiney-Turbine-sized quest screen at a time!

Renaming Files

Admins and above can move files just like anyone else moves pages - feel free to use {{Move}} if you like. Sethladan 19:04, 14 August 2011 (EDT)

Except that you can't rename/move image files (or at least I don't get the same pulldown for images). Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:07, 14 August 2011 (EDT)
duh... now I see. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:08, 14 August 2011 (EDT)
Yeah, I don't make those rank rules, heh. :-P Sethladan 19:21, 14 August 2011 (EDT)