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Crafting Guilds

The Crafting Hall in Galtrev also leads to the Craftguilder's Hall, which contains all of the Superior facilities as well as traders and vendors for each of the crafting guilds. It's a pretty full room, with five NPCs for each guild, so I'm not sure the best way to present that information on this page, or how much detail is needed. --Elinnea (talk) 12:59, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

Make another Vendor table, separating each group by guild, and stick it under "Crafting Guild" as the heading below the table for "Vendor". -- Starbursty (talk) 14:21, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
Why not make the crafterguilder's hall as good as possible, then in the Galtrev article link to where that is appropriate, each with a short summary of the extra stuff that is contained at the hall-article??
We have a problem at the wiki -- perhaps some disagree but indeed we do -- we have same-content material at several locations. Somebody updates at one place but do not know, forgets, or is stressed out and does not update all of the other locations. But we can have a discussion on that elsewhere :) -- Zimoon (talk) 14:53, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
Hmmm 1... "Craftguilders Hall"??? ... don't know anything about that... where/how is it accessed? ... during the beta there was a "Master of Crafting Guilds" NPC, who I no longer find there. I also don't find anything on this Wiki by such a name. Or is this "level gated" that you only wind up in the "Crafting Hall" if you do not have access to "superior" facilities as your skills are to low? (I'm SM in all crafts on one toon or another.) Galtev is "almost" a copy of ""The Hall of Making" back in Lhanuch.
Hmmm 2... Starbusty ... that's an idea. Galtrev seems to be "different" than other similar locations. So far I've just been collection information and verifying/updating stuff from the beta while leveling. Have't worried too much about format. I simply started out with the Boilerplate layout for location and "ad-libbed". I note that Lhanuch only partially follows that "design." It is also "interesting" in that most of the "working" NPCs in Galtrev have no names, unlike other areas.
Yeah 3... Zimoon... I run into this constantly, and try to do some of the (as it turns out) Major updating necessary to bring things into sync. It is clear that A LOT of this problem is "historical." That is to say... structures (like Epic Quests listed as "chapter" only) are clearly artifacts of documenting the SOA release with neither forethought to the future, nor expectations of how Turbine was going to warp things on us. There should clearly be much more transcluding of information than takes place now. I realize that sometimes things really ARE different, but many times they just appear different on the surface. Similarly, it is also "fun" guessing what the "root" names of many things and NPCs are ... i.e. the WIKI name vs the in-game name -- [[NPC Healer|Healer]] being a simple example. The other "same content" problem has to do with "survey" articles... Tasks/Tasks Bulletin Board is one such -- a ton of links, but no transcludes! ... and personally, I would like the list of Tasks called "Alphabetical" to be a sortable table, but that's another project also. However, for Dunland, I have verified that at least 3 of the Task Bulletin Boards are identical, and probably all of them for the Men of Dunland part, and then the ones for Theoreded's Riders, Gap of Rohan probably also. I stopped adding "stuff" to my User:Magill/Projects-_ROI-update page as it was taking longer to add stuff than to do anything!
One related annoyance.... Apparently all of the Galtrev quests are NOT assigned to Galtrev, but to Category:Dunland: Pren Gwydh Quests ... thank you Turbine for making things "logical." Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:45, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
Quote: "Apparently all of the Galtrev quests are NOT assigned to Galtrev, but to Category:Dunland: Pren Gwydh Quests" ::::: THIS is one BIG reason to rethink the quest template and rather than automagically add quests to region we should add it to the narrowest location. If a location just has one or two quests we perhaps link it to next "tier" (area?). I discussed it with Seth earlier and we need to think this through. My vote always go to stick to old Wiki-standard which is narrowest category, which is contained by a bigger, and so on, and NEVER having redundant entries. That it is possible to display all of the items below a certain category is another story ;) And this is true for as well quests as anything else, but we take that discussion where it is better suited right ... where? -- Zimoon (talk) 19:52, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
I didn't know that Glatrev has its own Craft Guild Hall until now. I went inside and, sure enough, the NPCs exist. I stuck an example below the Vendors. Stuff the headers with the name links and it should be fine. -- Starbursty (talk) 18:19, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
Ok, I give up... where is it. All I can find are the Auction Hall, Crafting Hall and Training Hall. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:30, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
Oooo, it's like the TARDIS, bigger on the inside. Or perhaps the Craftguild Hall is in the basement? RingTailCat (talk) 00:53, 2 October 2011 (EDT)
It definitely was that way in the beta... walk in the door from Galtrev and wind up in Esteldin! Maybe they can't spell Gallifrey. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 13:07, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

Ok, here's a question... * {{:Tasks Bulletin Board#Dunland (Levels 65 - 68)}} includes the ENTIRE page, not just the section... However the reference * Tasks Bulletin Board#Dunland (Levels 65 - 68) goes directly to the section. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 18:04, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

What was the question? The link looks and works fine to me. -- Starbursty (talk) 18:19, 1 October 2011 (EDT)
The problem is you can't transclude by section. There's a discussion regarding selective trasnclusion here. Sethladan 18:25, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

Aha... but you can... see the the end of that talk section... also ... Tasks Bulletin Board#Dunland (Levels 65 - 68) now includes (ignoring the content) in Galtrev... with the exception of the fact that the Tool Tips don't work either in the original or the transclustion. One assumes that { has an equilivent to {{!}}? Fortunately I use EMACS and have no problem doing mass changes like that. :) ...Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:30, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

Quest strings or "gated" quests

I notice that all of the Category:Dunland: Pren Gwydh Quests quests appear to be "gated" and do not list their "quest strings" or groups.
I am trying to note that in the list of quests by indenting them.... hopefully to make it obvious that the quest is (or appears to be) contingent upon some earlier quest.
I also note that none of these quests have any "History." '
All of which is to say that Turbine has apparently changed how they Identify and display QuestsWm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

I get a strong sense of being managed. I like to go into an area and cherry pick the quests. Skip the boring and stupid ones, and just do enough of the ones I like to move on. In Dunland, I find that is not possible. The quest "experience" is heavily managed. You have a quest starter that leads you into a chain of quests where you get passed from quest giver to quest giver. At most I have had four, IIRC, quests in an area going at the same time. When you finish all of a set of quests, you can get the next set, and not before. Of course you could be working through the series of quests in Trum Dreng and the series in the Bonevales and the series in Pren Gwydh all at the same time, but they do not overlap geographically. Previously, I often ran into situations where my quest log was full. It doesn't look like that's going to be a problem here, at least as soon as I get rid of all those old grey quests. I just finished the Quests in the Bonevales deed. There were exactly the correct number of quests for the deed - no more and no less. The Bonevales is completely and forever done for that toon, so it seems. RingTailCat (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

Trum Dreng is just as bad... it's also bugged at the moment ... only 35 quests, but the deed wants 36. At least its a "Known Problem." Don't know if Turbine's fix will be to add a quest or to lower the deed. At least "Galtrev" (Pren Gwydh) has more quests than the deed... including one repeatable. And you can't even fill up your quest log with Tasks ... they're all the same! :) Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 13:02, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

I'm getting a feeling that I've gone through a time warp. I'm reminiscing about Adventure, where you got the rod to scare the bird to frighten away the snake so you could cross the bridge. After finishing the Bonevales quests, I felt like I had been jumping through hoops, following a rigidly scripted quest progression. On my first trip through that area, I don't think there was a single puzzling moment, as in no challenge at all. I can't visualize a way of going through that area with another toon that is not identical to my first trip. Is it going to get better later on? RingTailCat (talk) 14:06, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

someone needs to read and comment on the header to the quests section I've just written. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 14:20, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

NPC Coords

These NPC coords were cleaned out with revision [325906]

Ruthless Tom, White Hand Guard  {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.8S|17.2W}}
White Hand Guard - East Entrance  {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.4S|15.3W}}
White Hand Guard - North Entrance  {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|79.7S|16.4W}}
White Hand Overseer - Overseer 1 {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.7S|16.9W}}
White Hand Overseer - Overseer 2 {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.9S|16.7W}}
White Hand Overseer - Overseer 3 {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.5S|16.2W}}
Flint Ironheart {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|79.7S|16.5W}}- White Hand
Wunne - Labourer {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|79.8S|16.5W}}
Rhianu - Labourer {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|79.8S|16.5W}}
Gethin - Labourer {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.0S|16.5W}}
Gethin - Labourer
Luned {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.0S|16.4W}}
Goronu {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|78.2S|13.6W}}
Urien {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|79.9S|16.4W}}
Mari {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.3S|16.6W}}
Tomos {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.5S|19.9W}}
Envus {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.0S|17.0W}}
Myve {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.1S,|16.6W}}
Owena - Labourer {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.0S,|15.6W}}
Hopcun {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.0S|17.0W}}
Louri {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.0S|17.0W}} 
Rook {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|79.5S|19.0W}}
Macsen {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.2S|17.0W}}
Bron {{Tooltip Coords|Galtrev|80.1S|16.8W}}
Anwen (80.7S, 16.7W)
Catrin - Falcon Clan (80.0S, 16.6W)
Hulun - Ox Clan (80.2S, 15.5W)
Dai - Ox Clan (80.0S, 15.7W)
Esult (80.3S 17.0W)	
Idwal - Ox Clan (80.2S, 15.7W)
Léolin - Falcon Clan (Gravenwood, 77.8S, 10.3W)
Nerus (80.3S 17.1W)
Resident of Galtrev - Ox Clan ''several''
Tavu (80.2S, 17.0W)

-- Zimoon (talk) 15:45, 4 October 2011 (EDT)