User talk:Zimoon

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Item Tooltip documentation

Hey, I was looking over the changes to Template:Item Tooltip/doc and saw a few descriptions that might need to be reworded. The ones that say something like blank or "Yes" to show "Unique" in the right corner of the tooltip were correct before - leaving the value blank will not display anything, while putting any value (not just "Yes") will display the related text. -- Eggolass (talk) 19:44, 8 October 2012 (EDT)

Yes, you are correct, but, I wanted to remove the extra verbiage as it adds absolutely no value to the context, it was just redundant words. Adding extra weight to a sentence, even if the words are correct, also diffuse the content and the reader might miss some crucial part. And it also drains energy and is wearisome having to skip redundancies. What we could do, if anything, is to have a note explaining something like "Whenever we suggest 'Yes' you may use any other text as any text will enable that parameter". A one-note-rules-them-all kind of thing.
I am going to add that right away, but feel free to polish on that note. -- Zimoon (talk) 02:07, 9 October 2012 (EDT)
I think it is more confusing now. It looks as if either leaving it blank or typing "Yes" will make the word appear, which is completely the wrong message. Do we need to explain the blank option in each parameter? -- Elinnea (talk) 10:03, 9 October 2012 (EDT)
Hmmmm, good point. I will polish on my most recent edit and you have another look and fix possible grammar. Notice that the boilerplate is not changed in this regard, it has read "blank or Yes" for quite some time. Honestly, I have not noticed too many editor's mistakes during those long months, let us not make a hen out of a feather ;)
-- Zimoon (talk) 12:55, 9 October 2012 (EDT)
I like that better. I did get a question from someone who was confused by a "blank or Yes" line in a boilerplate. I can't be sure what exactly was confusing him, but it is true that the phrase is ambiguous in English. Hopefully any other confused person will read the note. And of course, if you figure out what it means there, you will know what to do with every other parameter in templates all over the wiki. That's the nice thing with consistency. -- Elinnea (talk) 14:44, 9 October 2012 (EDT)
Thanks Elin, for my grammar and spelin mistakes spotting, too. -- Zimoon (talk) 15:34, 9 October 2012 (EDT)

Old merger proposal

Account Types merged-- see Talk:Account Types Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 00:39, 13 October 2012 (EDT)

Splendid, awesome job! -- Zimoon (talk) 05:15, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
On the topic of the Redirects -- should Redirects have Category statements? I have assumed not. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 17:53, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
No, and I think any other text at that page is either just not displayed or it is disregarded completely. -- Zimoon (talk) 17:56, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
The redirect should be at the very start of the page, else there are cases where it will not be recognized as such. In rare cases, it can look like part of a numbered list. You can put in delete or move request template calls, or anything else you want, but, because the redirect causes you to automatically get sent to the target page, the viewer needs to do something special in order to view the redirect page itself. So, yes, don't bother putting information on the redirect page. Putting a category link is somewhat useless, after all, the normal user is not going to get to the redirect page itself. Just put the category link on the destination page, where the viewer is going to land. RingTailCat (talk) 18:52, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
And they automagically end up at
-- Zimoon (talk) 18:54, 13 October 2012 (EDT)

Scroll cases

Since the lists for apprentice scroll cases is complete I've added all of them into the generic page. I was thinking of leaving each list under each scroll case name, but thought that it would be better to leave them separated since one might not be exactly looking for that when seeing that page, but rather just the list of scrolls alone. So I left the recipes with reward to be easier to find a certain profession by the icon. Any changes you'd make? Gwenwyfar (talk) 04:26, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

That looks great and your decision was wise :) -- Zimoon (talk) 04:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
Good :) We can use that format for the next ones once their lists is done then.
Gwenwyfar (talk) 04:45, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
Sad that we cannot transclude from the generic page tho. Oooh, we can, but that is tricky and needs some serious thought. I would not go for that :( -- Zimoon (talk) 04:47, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
Wouldn't just a section transclusion work? (If its that easy, I'm not too familiar with page transcluding). If its not, could still just add a simple parser coding and transclude it with an option to just say the name of the profession and then a certain part shows up.
Gwenwyfar (talk) 06:59, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
It is easy once you get the hang of it, but what I thought of is messy :(
There was a sample somewhere but it involves quite a bit of extra code. Since these things are pretty static I don't think it is a bother, but, we could use a "meta-page" that just lists the possible results and transclude that one as usual. Such as am "Apprentice Scroll Case - Results".
-- Zimoon (talk) 07:14, 23 October 2012 (EDT)
That sounds good. Would only have to edit one page for all recipes of all tiers too. I'll make it later if you don't beat me to it :)
Gwenwyfar (talk) 09:14, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

Item Icons

Hi Zim! I was working on the Eastemnet vendors today and realized that when I put up the items Jagged Norcrofts Axe and Sharpened Norcrofts Axe back on 10/20, I hadn't created a generic icon :/ Is there any way to change the icon, or will we need to leave it as-is and maybe create another icon named generically? Thanks for your input! Garabrand (talk) 11:06, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Hi, you can use the Template:Move to request that a user with higher privilege perform a move on your behalf. This places the page in a hidden TODO category, see Category:Move Candidates, where users that can do the move will find and execute the request. Usually, they will do any clean up necessary. Note that there is also a Template:Delete Page to request page removal for unnecessary pages (and files), see Category:Articles for deletion. RingTailCat (talk) 11:23, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Thanks a ton, Cat....can you tell me if I did it right for those two icons? Still pretty green at a lot of things... Garabrand (talk) 11:46, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
That seems perfect. If not beaten to it I will fix it when I come home. There is always the behind the scenes checks to do, "is the target file name occupied?", "are the still something in what-links-here?", etc. which I cannot really do at the job ;)
-- Zimoon (talk) 12:03, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Thanks a lot :) I did look at the generics and only saw up to style 9, so I put those 2 as 10 and 11. Garabrand (talk) 12:20, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Just one thing, the page Category:Move Candidates is empty ;)
Next time, do not add the |nocat=y}} as it disables adding the page to the tracker category, but we really want to have them there for easy access. I do not know why that parameter is there in the first place and I will research and possibly remove it. I found two image pages anyway and will move them as requested. -- Zimoon (talk) 13:33, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Having the nocat=y parameter allows you to give an example of template usage in the doc, without requesting that the doc page get moved somewhere inappropriate! I suppose the doc should be clearer about why you might want to use that parameter. (fixed spelling) RingTailCat (talk) 16:25, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Rightoo, hmm, I guess it should not be mentioned at all, but in a foot note. The only place I can find it useful is at the template page itself, or its /doc page ;) -- Zimoon (talk) 16:34, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Template Magic

Regarding this. I'm not sure what you mean, but it works for me at least.

Example One

| parameter1    =

Example Two


If you now do a

{{#if: {{{parameter1|}}} | did it | fail }}

both Example One and Two, will/should give you a "fail". Basically because "{{{XXX|}}}" will only evaluate to an empty string if XXX hasn't been specified or is empty (aka consisting only of whitespaces).
(Only exception here are things like {{templateX|parameter1={{{mode|}}} }}, but I don't think you should or even want to worry about that kind of stuff ;) )

Everything clear now? :p You can also have a look at mediawiki's explanation.

--EoD (talk) 18:53, 5 November 2012 (EST)

My problem seems to be that creature Faerdûath does not work for me (neither does Faerdûath's Shadow). Both are using Template:Creature and both have nocat=yes set at their pages respectively. I had probably just complicated things by the #if: clause in this diff. Removing and using a simple |nocat={{{nocat|}}} worked. Thanks for you help.
PS: Yes, that wiki-help page was the one I studied over and over again, but I think there is some magic with my try to use an #if: that I do not really understand. Yet. DS. -- Zimoon (talk) 01:25, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Update 9...

...completely revises Stable-master window and Travel structure
See: User_talk:Magill#Update_9_completely_revises_Stable-master_window_and_Travel_structure —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magill (Contribs • User Talk) at 28 Nov 2012.

Whoah! You'll be overtaking me in contributions soon enough!

Haha! That's what I get for taking a long break from Lotro! I feel like taking my time with Rohan instead of screencapping everything like I used to do. Starbursty (talk) 14:31, 3 December 2012 (EST)

I enjoy the editing and finds lots of stuff to polish and improve. But indeed, without much of the stuff that already is added it would quickly become a chore. Do what you enjoy the most :-)
-- Zimoon (talk) 14:55, 3 December 2012 (EST)


... to your sons on becoming fully(?) mature! ;) Sethladan 17:49, 13 December 2012 (EST)

Will they ever? :P -- Zimoon (talk) 17:50, 13 December 2012 (EST)

Quest: Crafting: A Superior crafting facility

Definition of terms:

I took several characters through these quests in the last few days. I did not notice that the expert craft NPCs offered the superior crafting facility quest. It seemed unchanged: You had to go find a novice craft NPC to get the quest. Then go tod the named expert craft NPC. The named expert craft NPC (and only that one expert craft NPC) would have the same quest comment as the novice craft NPCs when you found him. I don't believe he would offer you the superior crafting facility quest. He would just offer you his artisan craft quest, and after you completed that, he would complete the superior crafting facility quest.

There are lots of crafting areas, see South Bree and Snowbourn as examples, where there are no novice or expert crafting NPCs near the regular or superior crafting facility. There is just a nearby supplier from which to purchase crafting ingredients (but not recipes).

The problem with this arrangement, is that you just stop gaining craft experience. There was no message. Unless you are standing beside a novice crafter and notice that he gains a quest ring when you gain enough experience to get expert proficiency, your might have a WTF moment. If you aren't beside a novice crafting NPC, you might have a major WTF moment. Often, you will end up wasting a bunch of materials for no crafting XP.

I based my changes on what I noticed in the newly beefed up Three-farrow Crafting Hall in Bree. I had the initial quest and actually dropped it to check whether the Expert crafting vendor offered it or not. This was the new Expert Jeweller there, and I assumed this to be symmetric for all experts. -- He offered both quests.
Could it be that you had already accepted the initial quest from the novice? Or do you think only some experts offer both quests?
It could well be the latter, perhaps based on whether there is a superior X near them. Notice that the beefed up crafting hall in Bree now has a Superior Oven. Looking at the in-doors map it shows also superior of all facilities, but those are yet not realized in-game. And this Expert Jeweller is standing just near where the superior workbench show at the map. (Perhaps those facilities are planned for and will come, planned for and forgotten, planned for but withdrawn but forgot to fix the map; I think the first option.) Either way, I have done mistakes before and have always fixed them ;-)
-- Zimoon (talk) 08:17, 22 December 2012 (EST)
Now that you mention it, I had taken the Quest:Crafting: A Superior Workbench (Jeweller) some time ago but I had not made the dangerous trek off to Esteldín until recently. I will have to be more observant, and slow down a bit as well. I too have taken and dropped such quests back when I was researching them. Looks like a new round of research is called for.
I always get a crafting vocation for my characters as early as possible. Hopefully, there is someone out there who hasn't done that who can see what the situation is like in the guild branch offices in Galtrev and Snowbourn for un-guilded, and even un-crafted characters.
RingTailCat (talk) 08:34, 22 December 2012 (EST)
As I said, I may well be wrong with the generality of those edits, but until proven wrong...
As you do I pick up vocations early on, and I have not paid much attention. This time I brought my Cook (and I specialize in just one profession until a character until completed tiers so they do not compete about resources, and this Cook is back in the queue except Cook). He had the Jeweller (Tinker) quest pending and I noticed a quest ring on that new NPC. That was it. This could also be changed with the recentmost changes to crafting; the crafting hall in Bree now has a lot new services: auctioneer, Mailbox, vault. Though the Throphy Broker is gone (obsolete crafting trophies, I have to check Michel Delving and Esteldín as well). Perhaps there is an ongoing strategy to improve services within all or some crafting hubs. I will drop this quest (as it is definitely not urgent for me) and travel around for the other experts and see what they have to offer. That is still just the Jeweller, but I would be surprised if this is not symmetric over all experts.
-- Zimoon (talk) 08:41, 22 December 2012 (EST)

Rare scroll cases

Just saw the info you added about the rare scroll case, and it looks rather confusing. It says it "may also be obtained from the lottery", but rare scrolls do not drop from humanoids, they are rewards from quests and can be bought in skirmishes. They are not really related to the uncommon scrolls. Its interesting to have info about the rare scrolls there, but I think we should do it in another way (no ideas for it right now, maybe leave it at the end saying that rare versions of the scrolls are from quests and skirmishes and the lottery info along). Gwenwyfar (talk) 21:36, 26 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks for spotting that, I do not recall exactly where but will hunt it down and see if I figure something out. Later. -- Zimoon (talk) 03:51, 27 December 2012 (EST)
It was here. If you don't get at it first I might think of something later, then we can add it to other pages as well :P
Gwenwyfar (talk) 07:22, 27 December 2012 (EST)
I edited somewhat but realize that we really need to settle on a format, but also decide how to deal with anomalies such as Expert Metalsmith Scroll Case versus Expert Metalworker Scroll Case. So...
On format -- I like the style of Item:Expert Scholar Scroll Case. Notice that hover-over actually displays both scrolls ... nice :)
The shared information comes first, then the "rare" information. Which is quite informative. At least as soon as the this-scroll-yields-this is in place---and certainly since the "uncommon" scroll really yields "rare" recipes.
On Metalsmith -- I would not hesitate to suggest the two pages are merged: the "uncommon" takes the load and the "rare" redirects to the one page. After all, this is only a naming issue, and if Turbine continues to change names on recipes as they have done the recent year this is one that definitely is queued, don't you think?
My recent-most edits are not intended to be etched in stone, feel free to come up with a better thought out style. Best is a style that can be applied on all of these scroll pages, no matter the crafting tier.
On another note -- while I like the idea of a template to display what scrolls may yield, I find it a bit awkward to edit and think new-comers will not easily get around doing it. That said, I have not really a great suggestion to suggest.
-- Zimoon (talk) 13:04, 27 December 2012 (EST)

Happy New Year

And good luck with the onslaught of real life. You've been an excellent steward of the site (in addition to far and away the most prolific editor, so it's a wonder you juggle as well as you have. See you around! :) (And I think I'm going to send you an email sometime - you're a great software engineering mentor. -smile- ) Sethladan 17:53, 31 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks, and same same. And sure, send a mail any time :)
And I said "trickle" .. not dead stop :P
-- Zimoon (talk) 15:57, 2 January 2013 (EST)

A cute toy

While reading up on stuff over at the main MediaWiki site, I encountered a sig by one of their Admins. It made his sig stand out in discussions.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC talk 00:59, 9 January 2013 (EST)

I prefer the less intrusive version. But I am the old school :P -- Zimoon (talk) 02:32, 9 January 2013 (EST)

New Effects

Hi Zim! I was trying to look around for some clues on how to set up effects, but I've got no clue. I wanted to create the effects for the new rings and items, specifically the might boost from Item:Flask of Rancid Oil and the crit bonus from Item:Wyrmfire Warrior's Ring of Rohan.

The bonus from the flask is called "Major Might Boost", gives +113 Might for 20 seconds, and has the same icon as is used for the Warden's Potency.

The stacking Crit bonuses are: "Minor Critical Rating Boost", which gives +760 Critical Rating for 20 seconds; "Major Critical Rating Boost", which gives +1139 Critical Rating for 20 seconds; finally "Greater Critical Rating Boost", which givse +1519 Critical Rating for 20 seconds. These 3 boosts all share the same effect icon as Terrible Retribution.

I'm wondering if it's not too much trouble for you (or anyone else reading this) to create these icons? I don't have an an item that gives a major will or agility boost, so I'm not sure if those are the same icons. Thanks for all your help! Garabrand (talk) 11:32, 14 March 2013 (EDT)

Got a Item:Mooncandle Warrior's Ring of Rohan recently, which gives the same effect icon as the flask, but gives +122 Might. Any progress on the new effects? Garabrand (talk) 17:24, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
This topic seems to be much like Character Stats -- an old topic that needs serious work to "sort out" and bring current.
I note however that the breakdown into sub-categories is ignored more than observed. Of course categorizing many of the listed effects is likely to be VERY arbitrary... Coldbear's Dish is that a Category:Damage Effects or a Category:Debuffs (like Chilling Howl?)
Also, Turbine has apparently gotten some "new blood" in the "Effects Department" -- the verbiage is being changed with the latest rounds of Lvl 85 stuff.
As for the Icons... two things happen - 1) Turbine frequently uses a "duplicate icon" as a place holder until the Art Department makes a new one. And 2) Turbine is in fact moving more toward Generic Icons for many things (just as we are)... to many art assets to track.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 12:12, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

Class Traits/Skills

Hi Zim,

I saw that Magill is working on a few classes, but I'm wondering if there are big plans to overhaul the class pages now that we have new traits and skills. I'd love to help out with your overall plans and have a champ, rk, cap, warden, and burg that I can contribute to. Let me know what we're going to need! Garabrand (talk) 16:32, 7 November 2013 (EST)

Hullo Garabrand! Magill and I have talked a little bit about it at his talk page and a few of us have started collecting various types of information in sandboxes. There will need to be some changes to the class pages, and I'm planning to make a mock-up of how they might look, unless somebody else gets to it first.
Info on champ, captain, warden, and burg will all be welcome, as these are classes we don't have well covered among the editors I know. -- Elinnea (talk) 22:51, 7 November 2013 (EST)


Hello Zimoon, I was hoping you can send me a private message with your email. --Lotroadmin (talk) 03:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

ping --Lotroadmin (talk) 01:42, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Ping again :) If you can, under the tools option of my talk page, can you send a message with your email (or add your email to your talk page). --Lotroadmin (talk) 07:23, 25 August 2014 (UTC)