Talk:Video Tutorials

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LotRO-Wiki Talk with T13 (ShoeMaker)

How would everyone feel about a Twitch stream every Tuesday morning from 9-10AM Eastern titled "LotRO-Wiki Talk with T13 (ShoeMaker)" hosted by me on the official LotROstream channel in a similar format to DDOwiki Talk with T13 (ShoeMaker)? Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 21:06, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

  • I personally don't have time to watch the videos you linked (and I suspect others are in the same boat), so could you give an idea of what you would stream? -- Gestrid (talk) 21:24, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
    • In the first episode, I walk people through how to create an account. Then I show them how to make minor edits, how to upload images, how to update templated pages... Then at least a few episodes in I start showing how to make templates starting with easy ones and working up to more complex stuff and how to edit and make JavaScript gadgets or css. I show how to be productive on the wiki. Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 22:24, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
      • I'd be okay with that as long as there was something on not being too disruptive while editing or creating templates. Of course, others would have to agree as well. -- Gestrid (talk) 22:34, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
        • That's why I posted it here first instead of just doing it. ;) Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 23:26, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
          • Sounds great to me. I'm all for this idea. --Tharondir (talk) 08:02, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Interesting idea. I can easily see how this could be quite useful and educational -- for both new and old editors!

Discussion moved from main-talk page

As this particular discussion is quickly going to get far afield from discussion about the main page, I've created a new "first pass, straw-man, prototype" page called [[Video Tutorials]] and copied this discussion to that talk page: Talk:Video Tutorials
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 17:04, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Getting started

I know that when I was starting out with the WIKI many years ago, it was EXTREMELY difficult to make sense out of anything, being new to the entire concept of creating or modifying content for any WIKI. And back then, WIKIs in general were still quite new with nowhere near the options of today.
The basic question is (as always) Viewership? 9-10AM on a Tuesday is not exactly "prime time" for gaming or anything else (except sleeping through one's first class of the day or standing in line at Starbucks or the coffee cart).
  • This means that to be truly effective and useful, these videos need to be incorporated into the WIKI in some fashion.
The first step of incorporation is to figure out what to call it - some name that is both catchy and informative - "Video Tutorials" is informative, but boring -- or is it?
To that end, I have made a placeholder page called Video Tutorials and shifted this dialog over to its talk page since I can see it quickly getting extensive, and having virtually nothing to do with the Main page.
  • What I've done on DDOwiki is create a special user account in the first episode (User:DDOstream) that doesn't get any permissions granted for account creation. As the account goes through and edits, it makes requests for permissions just as anyone else would (thus demonstrating how to do so) and may be approved or rejected just like any other editor based on contributions and other factors. I'll likely create the account LotROstream (Contribs • User Talk) for this purpose here if there is consensus to move forward with the project. From that point on DDOwiki, I've created pages for all the official channel shows including the DDOwiki Talk w T13 (ShoeMaker) show that includes a link to the show's archives on YouTube. Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 03:00, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
  • One simple way to make this VERY useful for the WIKI is to create an "index page" where the recorded streams can be found, and a brief synopsis of their content, and the content of the upcoming stream. The prototype I created indexes the first couple of episodes.
The next concern immediately becomes - do you have a script or basic outline of content you will present and meaningful titles -- not simply "Episode xx"? Or is this going to be simply a stream-of-consciousness broadcast? Put another way, can you (Shumaker) operate within such a framework? I'm not talking about detailed scripting, but general topics -- which in reviewing the existing DDO videos is always a problem -- what to talk about. The assumption will clearly have to be -- nobody will be on-line during the broadcast, so it will have to stand alone for content.
  • I typically do my streams on-the-fly with whatever requests/input I get from my viewership. If a specific topic was wanted to be talked about, and an outline put together - I'd be happy to work from that outline (and encourage and appreciate such guidance and help). Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 03:00, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
Our main Help page Help:Contents is clearly one such list of topics.
Similarly, should we have a basic Course Outline -- which takes a new editor from creating an account to creating images -- which would include reviewing the vaious guidelines for content along the way? And then other more advanced topic course outlines?
Are there topics which might be fun for the presenter, but which are far beyond the scope of all but a very fewe editors. Especially considering the differences between the two Wikis.
  • Great questions, I'll reserve my thoughts on the answers until others here have had a chance to respond. Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 03:00, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Some General considerations and questions off the top of my head

  • We need to consider the difference in size, and possibly scope, of the DDO WIKI compared to LOTRO-WIKI. The LOTRO-Wiki is roughly 6 times the size of the DDO WIKI -- 70,000 articles compared to 11,000 (according to their respective home pages). This has particular impact when considering Templates. There are many templates which will cause the server to go to its knees when they are updated - simply because of the HUGE number of pages some templates are used on -- "Item" is one which immediately comes to mind.
    • According to the non-cached counts seen on my userpage, DDOwiki has 50,710 pages including 12,201 articles, 16,975 files, and 32 active editors out of 8,294 total. Template update considerations are done by the job queue, which works just fine even for wikis using this same software with millions of pages and files. Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 02:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Should we rate the content for the viewer -- for the new editor; for the casual editor; for the experienced editor; etc.
    • I wouldn't think so. I try to offer something for almost every level of editor in each stream, although with the lack of viewer interaction, I've been leaning much harder on the more advanced stuff lately. Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 02:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
  • What relationship will exist between Turbine and the Streamers. Between the WIKI and the streamers. I have not looked into whatever NDA exists nor what benefits accrue to the Streamers, and how they would impact the functioning of the WIKI.
    • Relationship between Turbine and it's streamers is strong, between the wiki and the streamers will yet to be determined but it's received a lot of positive feedback for DDOwiki Talk, there is no NDA specific to this situation and if anything came up it would be between the streamer and Turbine directly (as the streamer, I'm not worried). Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 02:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
      • As someone who has been in closed betas with Turbine before (such as the Helm's Deep expansion), I can say that if there is an NDA and if it's the same one used for closed betas, it shouldn't be a problem. If someone in Twitch chat asks, just tell them that anything under NDA isn't allowed on the wiki. I did make a note about NDAs over at World:Bullroarer (which might benefit from some softer wording, honestly), and I edited one already on The Eyes and Guard Tavern#Special Note. -- Gestrid (talk) 20:13, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Is it possible to have multiple presenters from multiple locations participate in a Twich Stream? I know that there is software available which does allow such "video conferencing" but have no idea how or if it is compatible with whatever software Twitch uses.
    • Absolutely. That is the basis of the LotROstream public Discord server. I'm also willing to do Skype calls on stream (although I have not yet done one on stream, I'm sure I could easily figure it out). Technical 13 ( t | e | c | [ h] ) 02:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
. . . Putting Bacon and pepperoni on a pizza instead of picking out cats -- cute :)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 17:32, 31 July 2016 (UTC)