Talk:Relative Difficulty Guideline

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Udunion, Dolvaethor, Mordirith, and pals...

I've defintely wiped more times on Udunion than Mordirith, but I also run that battle more often. I also think Dolvaethor is harder than Mordirith... but part of the reason for that is because Mordirith can be easily reset if something goes wrong (like minstrel gets kicked in to lava), whereas both Udunion and Dolvaethor are more difficult to restart or get back to (although getting to Mordirith in the first place is a challenge). Udundion isn't even a very tough boss, he just has an extremely technical fight where one mistake can cause a group wipe. The Dolvaethor encounter makes me sweat bullets every time, just because he does so much damage and everyone in the fight is needed to do their part (and nobody ever wants to run back to HV). Mordirith has a good mix of technical stuff (dealing with hope wipes and adds) plus the furious combat aspect (his final form especially), but his battle never seems to get my heart racing like Thaurlach, Udunion, or Dolvaethor. I'm curious to know how others rank some of the fights in difficulty...
I think Udunion is the hardest 6-man fight in the endgame, just because one mistake or bit of bad luck can lead to a group wipe. I think Dolvaethor is the next hardest, but I've also done that one the least so it might just be a matter of adjusting my strategy. I think Mordirith is probably 3rd, and then I suppose Laugli Goldentongue comes in after that.
It's harder to rate some of the earlier fights like Twisted Heart, Tomb of Elendil, or the GA bosses, because it isn't so easy to get a group of 6 that are the same level as the associated quest, but they typically require more thought than just tank n' spank.
I haven't really fought Thorog (does anyone even try anymore?) but in Helegrod I'd put Zaudru at Very Hard (although if you can teach the hunters to act like healers for just one fight it's not so bad). The drake boss fight is Hard but with good communication, positioning, and crowd control it gets a bit easier. Same goes for Storvagun and the courtyard fight.
In the rift I have trouble making up my mind about difficulty since some groups seem to have a lot more trouble than others, I'd probably say it goes Thaurlach(defintely Very Hard), Thrang is either Very Hard or Hard (right on the edge in terms of margin for failure), Zurm & Barz (Hard), Narnulubat & Zogtark are on the cusp between Hard and Medium, Fruz and Eatey/Bitey seem Medium to me. MysterX 15:07, 10 April 2008 (PDT)

Yeah... as always it's just relative to the competence and gear of the players in your group. I'd say that it should be based off a full group of players at the recommended level with a decent knowledge of their class and "average" gear for the encounter. It should also be relative to the other bosses found in the instance/raid. Average gear would mean mostly purples with some incomparables. More incomparables doesn't make that big of a difference either - I've found that on my Guardian the rare heavy shield (Langlas' Defender or something) is actually better in terms of avoidance and stats than the Hardened Heavy Ancient Shield (incomparable, crafted) or most any other shield I've seen.
I think it might be a good idea to go over all the bosses and create a definite list of "all bosses with relative difficulties" as a reference and where any discussions about the difficulty of an encounter can take place. Perhaps we should set up a time to discuss this on IRC, separate from the chat meeting? --Fedaykin 21:05, 10 April 2008 (PDT)