User talk:Sethladan

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Location Nav-boxes, Question

I just wanted to know if you remember if anything was said or decided on how to proceed with using the more local navigation boxes. I mean for example Archet Dale, Combe, and Staddle. Only Archet Dale has its own finer-scale map, the latter two do not and these boxes are quite empty in my humble opinion (the Staddle-box is disabled at the moment).

I have a vague memory about we would use nav-boxes for areas with local maps, I may be wrong. Either way, I wonder if not location nav-boxes is better used for areas and settlements (or similar) having their own maps? At least when/if their content otherwise borders to the Void.

Even if the Bree-land nav-box is ridiculously huge, or it was, I wonder what is left if we would empty it for each and every area: 4 settlements, a number of areas, what else? Certain PoI:s? But then which? That is why I wonder if we should find a good balance between region-nav-boxes and when to indeed use area/settlement/similar-nav-boxes.
Zimoon (talk) 09:44, 10 January 2012 (EST)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

we miss you :( -Adelas

Agreed. Melodrama should be met with an appropriately equal amount from onlookers. ;) I suppose it's some sort of computer science program that is pulling you away, and I wish you well! All the same, you will be very much missed around here. I'll try to help keep skills from falling into utter disarray while you're gone - and maybe I'll have to actually learn to edit a template myself. :o -- Elinnea (talk) 21:18, 12 January 2012 (EST)
Another "noooooooo" in the choir and a more cheerful "get well soon!"
Best wishes on your education and have fun, make it fun, and then more fun, just to make it worth it the exams :P
See you around!
Zimoon (talk) 02:09, 13 January 2012 (EST)
Good luck with your studies. I'm sure you're doing great, as always. You are missed very much now already, although I could not help but grin at the last nerdy goodbye trick. One more thing... please do not forget to return after you're done. This is an order from Queen Ravanel! ;-) --Ravanel (talk) 08:59, 20 January 2012 (EST)
Thanks all for the support! School is going well - an associate's degree in computer science. On break this week, applying for internships and thought I would come cause some trouble around here in the meantime. :) Sethladan 04:09, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Nice to see you again! Have fun causing troubles :p --EoD (talk) 13:32, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Hello Seth! Trouble is always welcome from you.... --Lotroadmin (talk) 16:02, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Nice to hear from both of you (and Elin below, as well)! Of course I had the bright idea to reformat my HDD, install Ubuntu, and try a dual-boot setup, so here I am two days later only just barely getting myself operating again. Total Linux newbie = Ubuntu looks pretty but does nothing useful at all (won't recognize my wireless adapter nor install software from the boot USB. Sigh.). At least things work on the Windows side and I can get back to editing. LotRO downloading as I type.
@Skunark, got a favor to ask you - should I email you or try and catch you on Messenger/IRC? Thanks in advance! Sethladan 16:57, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
Welcome to the world of Linux -- You're not the first to discover that it's not what it's cracked up to be... and, sadly, it has only gotten worse over the years. But that's another issue completely. The basic question is... are you playing on Gladden these days? I was in a kin-based PUG the other evening doing 12 man versions of Bree and Tuckboro (OTG had 8 of the 12) and saw a name flash by that looked like yours. But was "busy" and didn't have a chance to check before things got wrapped up. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 10:27, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for the commiseration, Bill. It's irksome to see "familiarity with Linux" as a basic necessity for computer science work, and then to run into a brick wall when you try to dive into it. Alas. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever played on Gladden, but I appreciate that you imagined my company all the same. :) Sethladan 13:27, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

How do you add new user pages to the Users Category?

Do you do that manually or do you have a script I can borrow... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SChalice (Contribs • User Talk) at 01.23.2012.

I am not sure how quick Seth will reply as he has paused himself for studies, see User:Sethladan. You simply add [[Category:Users]] at the bottom of your page. But since you already have that on your page I guess you ask for somebody else, do you? If not, please elaborate. Zimoon (talk) 17:53, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Moving

Hi Seth, I have rights to move these days, I've just forgotten to look if there are any candidates. I can clean up after myself unless you like to do that :P -- Zimoon (talk) 04:04, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

Haha, okay. I will leave it to you. Congrats on your admin rights! :) I am just wasting time while PC downloads, so I thought I would do sweeping. Not sure what to work on after so long away. Sethladan 04:07, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Not sure what to work oh, eh? I might have a suggestion. ;)
Just kidding. (I mean, unless you actually want to) Great to hear from you again! -- Elinnea (talk) 11:05, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Why not beautify the NPC template to a more "modern" look, you have done miracles before :) Zimoon (talk) 18:08, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Miracles? What is this miracle you speak of?! And do you have any idea how dangerous it is to invite me to "redesign" something? I went to bed last night cooking up all kinds of revolutionary ideas for the template, but you probably just want the colors changed, right? :-P
@Elinnea: A lass after my own heart; you know I'm always happy to play with skills. Will look into this once I get LotRO reinstalled (see my comment under "NOOOO...!"). Sethladan 16:57, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
Hahaha, oh I've missed having you around. I've updated most of the RK skills but have been putting off the ones that use affinity in case the template gets changed. I'll just keep putting it off until you get a chance to look at it. -- Elinnea (talk) 23:21, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
Hahah, I've missed being around. I find myself grinning like a fool as I read through some of the conversations I've missed out on. I don't even need to go in-game; there's a whole host of characters here to enjoy. Good to know you're keeping up with skills - I know I made a whole stink about making it a massive project of mine, then promptly disappeared two months later. Oops. Sethladan 13:27, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
"Just colors"? Yeah, in a way, I want colors, grey and black are not colours but shades ... I think my old art-teacher once said ;-)
The links are coloured though, but green on grey are no good at today's screens, but was perhaps OK at old CRT screens. Or not. Either way, nice to see you back for a while -- Zimoon (talk) 02:08, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
I had an art teacher in grade school who said much the same - "white and black are not colors," heheh. I always get confused, though: Is black the absence of color and white 100% of color, or the other way 'round? There's my philosophy for the day... Sethladan 13:27, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
You probably know that there are two different mechanism of colour mixing? The one with light is pretty easy: You probably saw at least once in your life that two lamps (in general!) are brighter than one lamp of the same type, don't you? :p
Now imagine, you have a red, a green and a blue lamp. Those three together should be "brighter" than a single one and what is the "brightest" colour? It's neither red, nor blue nor green, it's white! :D . So if you have enough lamps, you might once reach white. (This lecture continues on another day :p)
--EoD (talk) 08:54, 7 April 2012 (EDT)

Did you mean to delete the whole box?

I did. What is a box for if it's empty? :) --EoD (talk) 21:43, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

Most of our walkthrough/notes boxes are empty - I figured we put them there to encourage people to fill them. Sorry to undo your edit since you did as intended! :$ Sethladan 22:31, 6 April 2012 (EDT)
I was considering to add a "feature" which hides empty (or pretext-filled) quest boxes, but this seems against your encouragment. But I might be able to hide them only for non-logged-in people. What do you think? --EoD (talk) 08:47, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
I think an empty box is good to show. It just begs to be filled. "Fill me, fill me." And I like the idea of inviting and encouraging contributions from anyone. RingTailCat (talk) 10:27, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
I don't think the quest chains should be in the Walkthrough & Notes box at all: there is a Quest Chain box that is already treated this way: missing if empty, but it should be added to pages that need it. Zimoon wrote out a whole bunch about some of these things at Category talk:Quest Chains but those ideas have never been discussed as far as I know. Perhaps the time has come for a discussion - and it would be nice if it could be centralized somewhere, instead of scattered across various peoples' talk pages. --Elinnea (talk) 11:16, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
I do also like to have the Notes box left empty, to hopefully encourage someone to fill it in. And I have seen random new users do so, so it works! --Elinnea (talk) 11:16, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
First, a quest chain is a very specific in-game relationship between quests that is shown by the presence of the quest chain name in the quest log. In some cases, page authors have created "fake" quest chains and "Quest Arcs" as a mechanism for showing close pre/post-requisite relationships between quests.
Second, the "Walkthrough & Notes" section should be allowed to contain any sort of notes that relate to the quest, its reward, special mobs encountered, and even prerequisite quests.
A quest chain implies a linear relationship between quests. While most quest prerequisites reflect a linear series of quests, this is not always the case. I have encountered some quests in Great River where there is no clear linear relationship between quests, but there is a prerequisite in the sense that you must be doing another quest, or have completed another quest before the quest is offered, or the quest starting item will drop, or the quest starting landscape item is active. These more complex relationships need a bit more explanation that listing the old style quest chain. RingTailCat (talk) 12:27, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
Please move to Quest Talk:Evidence of Foulplay. --EoD (talk) 14:05, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
Thanks, and I have added some comments there ;) -- Zimoon (talk) 16:35, 7 April 2012 (EDT)

AltRow and AltRowMed

If I remember correctly, you are the master of those css styles, aren't you? I got a question there :) --EoD (talk) 11:54, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

Heh, I'm not sure that I'm the master of the CSS, just played with it a little bit a long time ago. I wondered the same thing you did about the !important styles. I think the only purpose is to override a user's stylesheet, which makes no sense to me. I think it would be safe to delete them - give it a try and we'll see what happens. There's a lot in that file that could/should be cleaned up, but I never got around to it, of course. :-P Sethladan 12:41, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

Duplicate icons, Queston

Hi, I found that there are at least 4 identical Uncommon Heavy gloves icons given as quest reward in Duneland, that have to be replaced with the same icon file with general name: Suspected files: Template:S Template:S Template:S Template:S. And have to be replaced with name "Heavy Gloves 18 (uncommon)-icon.png" to be in line with rare item of the same look . So my question is, how can I mark such files for rename/deletion. Question is common, because same situation is found with other armour pieces. SpellBuilder (talk) 08:58, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

I saw you doing some work on the Category talk:Shoulder Icons and wondered when you'd come with this question. :) People with admin privileges and above can move image files the same way as pages. For those without, there's a {{Move}} template that you can stick on a page, and someone will do the moving for you. For the ones that are duplicates and that we should get rid of, be sure to tag them with {{Delete Page}}, too. Thanks for your help with cutting down these duplicate icons! Sethladan 10:51, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
Thanks. I have marked this 4 gloves files. Eventually I will look for other armour duplicates. SpellBuilder (talk) 16:46, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
There is a (non-automatic) script that can be run to detect duplicate and almost duplicate images. The detection algorithm will ignore small variations in color, so the icon variations that result from anti-aliasing and other graphics effects are ignored. Once this batch process has run, you will see a list of duplicate images on the image file page. The duplicates go in Category:Duplicated Files, as well. RingTailCat (talk) 17:10, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

Answer to "Aged Blood of Man"

Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right way to respond or not, there doesn't seem to be any real way of just sending you a message. Anyway Item:Aged Blood of Man can be deleted, I made it by accident because I couldn't find a page for it. It was confusing due to a single Item:Vial of Aged Blood of Man being called "Aged Blood of Man," there is no "vial" in the name like there is for multiple potions. So a single potion is just called "Aged blood of Man" while multiple potions are called "5 Vials of Aged Blood of Man." Also, how exactly do I delete a page? After I realized my mistake I tried to delete it but couldn't seem to find a way to. Thanks for the help in advance User:Ceolrond.

WikiNerds Channel

With the Exiles having a new channel for cross-kin friends and the Exiffs channel inhabited by some old ghosts, I thought it would be good to create one especially for wiki researchers instead. I won't be staying in the Exiffs channel. So, next time you log Sethingy (or something else "Seth"), please:

  • /leavechannel Exiffs
  • /joinchannel WikiNerds

Thanks! --Ravanel (talk) 04:58, 14 June 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for keeping me in the loop! I'll make sure to update my chat preferences for my family of Seths (and one lonely Saladain) today. :) Sethladan 11:22, 14 June 2012 (EDT)

cleaning up stubs etc.

Good to see someone else looking at the "article management tags" pages.

I don't doubt that there are more that can go. Now that I'm looking at them again, I realize that there is still more documenting of them to be done. Not only of these, but of all the assorted editing "tools."

Sigh, one of the joys of having been ADD for 50+ years ... easily sidetracked. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 17:57, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Glad I could do a small bit to help tame the tangled mess that I helped grow (part by action and part by complacency), heh. I've been shying away from the larger projects recently, but as far as I'm concerned, the single most important task I'm setting before myself is documentation and the whole Help: section. I have some ideas in my head and some extra free time coming up this summer, so here's to hoping. Following that will definitely be taking some long hard looks at templates in general.
And I hear you about the ADD - it's hard enough for someone with attention deficits to maintain a steady and solid purpose in a place like this, let alone when you want to do a little of everything all at once. With any luck, a rock-solid help section will provide a little more guidance and structure for all of us going forward. Pipe dream perhaps, but a man can hope. :) Sethladan 21:17, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Here's a couple of pages I started a while back -- don't know if there is anything useful there or not. Feel free to grab if it is.

Another thing I just recently noticed and was contemplating starting: adding the Projects page to the help page; and from the "Stystem Tools project page:

  • make a page with all templates, go through them, check usage documentation and update if necessary

That was what got me playing with Item/Reward/Barter the other day -- could not find any reasonable, let alone rational documntation for where to find documentation.... It must have taken me several hours to find Template/Reward/doc !!! And, at the time, what I was looking for was an explanation of the "Item mode=imlink" parameter which I knew existed when I cleaned up the Moors pages before -- and which has since been replaced by Reward.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 01:17, 16 June 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for linking those pages - it's one thing to have an idea in my head of how to present all this information, but just from a quick skim I see a few things that I hadn't thought of. I tend to work on memory while you do a great job at linking to everything you find, so that helps a lot with following bread crumbs and highlighting what needs to be done. Hopefully we can pull things together in a more orderly fashion and you can pare down some of those links and make your wiki life a little less hectic. :) Sethladan 12:03, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

Repetitive edits

I noticed your edits on the furnishing pages. And your final comment ;)
Have you tried the tiny search&replace thingie at the top-right of the edit boxes? It also has very powerful reg-exp support. Not sure you really need reg-exp for that kind of editing but something like "|| {{Reward|" --> "|| [[Item:" would help half-way, and then "}}" -> ""|]]" ... of course not "do all" but... :P Still there will be some manual stuff but any help. Or am I kicking in an open door?
Zimoon (talk) 05:18, 22 June 2012 (EDT)

Hahah, I never use the editor bar, so I had no idea we had that search and replace feature. If my head weren't so full of cotton (I'm congested with a stuffy nose from the sudden heat wave here), I probably would have thought to to at least copy out the text to Notepad++ and do regex replace there. I didn't realize how much work changing all those Barters and Rewards would be, though! Thank you for your attention and sympathy and suggestion; I will definitely make use of that more often, especially since I recently read about regex and understand it a little now, heh. I need to work harder to protect my hands and use my head, I guess, otherwise my computer career will be very short. :-P Sethladan 12:03, 22 June 2012 (EDT)

ARGH!

Argh! -- see :Talk:Tailor_Westfold_Recipe_Index#Medium_Armour_.28The_Riders_of_Stangard.29 -- starting to look like Budda's Elephant and the Blind men.

--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 13:43, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
Argh indeed - frustrating when things aren't cut and dry and with so much overlapping with names. As I still haven't even taken any characters into Dunland nor have anyone tailoring at that level, I can't help much. I think your idea for disambiguating by (Light)/(Medium)/(Heavy) makes sense, though, so definitely go ahead with that if you like. Other than that...um...good luck! :: flee :: Sethladan 15:47, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

colors - Common.css and Common.js and ???

Sigh... I'm building a color table: User:Magill/Sandbox-6#Named_Color_Chart

In particular, I'm trying to find the color which is used by the "AltRows" table form... for its headers.

The Help:Editing page is thoroughly obtuse.

The Common.js page implies that the css Class should be AltRows -- except that it is not defined.

As best I can tell, darkorchid is the header color -- except that the only place css defines that is for "div.itemtooltip"

I can find the css definitions for the Monster Play tables (MP).

Is there some other css definitions that get used? In theory, I'm using the lotro-wiki defaults.

Any guesses what I'm NOT looking at?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:27, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
Not easy to find this stuff unless you know what to look for, that's for danged sure. AltRowsMed's header color is #BBBBFF - check Mediawiki:Common.css and do a "Find" for "AltRowsMed". Your first hit should be the line (about two-thirds of the way down the page) table.altRowsMed th {, and the "th" there is for table header. Right...(re)writing the help files and documentation...didn't I say I'd do that? Oy. Hope this helps! Sethladan 19:37, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Re: Hunting for Sport

Hi. I was aware that Quest:Venturing Forth linked to the categories I marked for deletion (Category:Hunting for sport Quests, Category:Wolves at the Door Quests) and I intended to update that as well, but I guess I forgot :). Anyway, it's updated now and nothing links to the categories so they're OK for deletion. Silver hr (talk) 15:09, 11 July 2012 (EDT)

Hiya! Thanks for following up and completing the update. Looks like Zimoon beat me to it for deleting the categories, but cheers to you for doing the updating in the first place! :) Sethladan 15:57, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

Select-a-Cat Captcha

Hello. I'm sorry to bother you, but I really don't know who to ask. The select-a-cat Captcha is not working for me. I just don't see a submit button. I can select all the kettehs, but if I press enter it just resets the captcha and loops. Am I doing something wrong? P.S. I LOVE the fact that you have a captcha. When I see the state other Wikis have fallen into, I am so grateful this site has maintained its sanity. Dinnae Fenmyre (talk) 17:49, 11 July 2012 (EDT)

Hi Dinnae! No bother at all; sorry to hear you had trouble with the "cat-ptcha". I've changed your user privileges so you should be able to bypass the captcha check automatically. We've had other people reporting problems with Internet Explorer getting caught in the infinite loop, so if that's the browser you're using, then take solace in knowing you weren't doing anything wrong. :) Thanks also for the kind praise! Lotroadmin is the guy in charge here, and he definitely works hard to keep out the trouble-makers and spam accounts. It's definitely rewarding to have everyone's hard work appreciated with our popularity, but a shame that the same popularity makes us a target, heheh.
Your character page and images are lovely, by the way! Sethladan 15:45, 12 July 2012 (EDT)
Thank you so much for the help and the comments! I was trying the captcha on both explorer and firefox, so perhaps it was something to do with my firewalls. I'm not tech savvy enough to know what would do that, though. Thanks for all the work you put into making this a friendly site. Dinnae Fenmyre (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

FYI -Changes to the Ettenmoors

major change coming to PvMP with RoR Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:56, 20 July 2012 (EDT)

Saw the Dev Diary. Makes me both happy and sad I don't play on the Moors. Hopefully they can really tighten the systems up and make it more enjoyable for more people. :) Sethladan 07:38, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
I am trying hard to reserve judgment until I get to actually play the new content after release.
The trend seems to be to force fellowing and virtually eliminate even the possibility of soloing in some areas. Changes to the moors look like it will be much harder to take back the map. That sounds like it will virtually eliminate enjoyable play outside prime time.
It sounds like there will be much more and faster real time interaction. This I see as doomed to failure when the client/server interaction is so heavily dependent on internet performance, something that is far beyond the control of both Turbine and the player. I've been playing on different servers recently, and observing that the speed of the servers is highly variable. Tiny delays on some are really annoying: select mob, fire skill, get "Invalid target" message. Worse yet is target switching: tab through mobs, fire skill, and attack previously selected mob! Both these problems arise from a combination of client/server messaging delays and server speed.
RingTailCat (talk) 14:56, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

One thing which has "poped-up" on the LOTRO Forums lately, which I don't really comprehend (i.e. why the sudden interest) is what is being called "1v1". It seems that on some servers they have been trying to write what I would call -- "rules of dueling." Dealing especially with the intervention (ala ganking?) of others as one side or the other is loosing. I don't know if this is an "under 20" thing, but based on my son and his friends game playing, it's not a 20-something "thing." "Sparing" has been in the game, I think, since the beginning. But sparring was essentially a "no winner" contest -- no looting the other guy's stuff, no "Renown" points, etc. ... and in the posts I have read, there are clearly two radically opposed factions -- Those who regard 1v1 as formal dueling, may the best man win; Vs those who believe that winning is everything and that any means available is acceptable. There is/was one thread where one poster was trying to propose some rules on the Lorebook, and someone opposed to his point of view, kept deleting the posting. I don't know how or if that particular issue was resolved. I have no idea if the Lorebook is even monitored by ANYONE anymore. To me it's clear that Turbine does not.

One wonders, now that Turbine is WB and therefore competing against/with Universal -- how much they (management) buy into the Comcast/Verizon explanation of "high-speed" internet capabilities -- (xfinity and FIOS). To me as a networker, it's obvious that the idea of being able to stream video from "edge cached servers" at high speed is radically different from being able to cross the net at high speed, at all! Let alone consistently for hours on end. At the moment, I believe that with the final release of Riders of Rohan Mounted Combat will be severely curtailed. Turbine has high expectations for Mounted Combat, which when you analyze their statements so far, clearly resembles Creeps Vs Freeps in the Moors -- large groups of undefined sized attacking other groups of unpredictable size, War-bands. Ignoring the basic game-play mechanics, which I'm convinced Turbine will have, or has gotten pretty correct (i.e. the actual mechanics of the mounted combat), I believe that like the Moors, as combatants sweep out across the Plains of Rohan in search of foes, the issues which still permeate the rest of the game will manifest themselves into very problematic issues for Mounted Combat. The "Lag" issues of "graphics blocks loading", "zone transfers", "turn your graphics down and your capes off to cut lag", etc. will dominate the problems.

I expect Rohan to be gorgeous, but I'm not certain the Internet is yet ready for "real-time gaming." Hell, even on Internet 2, we had to block all other traffic when two sites wanted to "play in the Cave" (Virtual Reality). The Real bandwidth needed was enormous, barely within the capabilities of Internet 2 when run as a pure point-to-point connection! Then we have the issue of "supported hardware" -- LOTRO still supports the 2005 hardware it was written to run on. In itself, that is not a bad thing. However, the capabilities of contemporary hardware are much, much greater. Will Turbine come up with a "minimum hardware for Mounted Combat?" That might help, maybe even dramatically, but it will increase the "cost of entry" from Free to Play to, Pay to Play -- even before you get into the "LOTRO Store-bought equipment" issues.

Hmmm. Hepaticas, and VR Helmets... yeah, now that's the Ticket! Just like in Disney World's VR games. VR sword fights are fun AND physically demanding, so you'll have to get a Doctor's OK to play :).

BTW, your observations about different server performance are interesting. One wonders "why" -- just server population load? All the servers are located in the same location outside Boston, so unless Turbine has a random selection of hardware, while not hard to believe for financial reasons, not logical from a performance predictability point of view. ... but then us Operations types never won a single argument with the Bean-counters.

Egads... in six months, I'll have been retired from all this for 10 years!

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:33, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Almost forgot:

The Ettenmoors is a unique place within the world of LOTRO; a corner of Middle-earth that allows players the ability to take up the banner of Sauron and openly battle against the forces of good. Over the course of LOTRO’s lifetime, the Ettenmoors has been updated several times.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:32, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
Not that I know much about this stuff, but I'm given to understand that the actual servers from Europe were shipped to Turbine by Codemasters last year; it's imaginable that there's different hardware running the former EU servers and the original NA ones. Who knows, unless you work for 'em, though, right? Sethladan 21:21, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Item template and colours

When talking about mobs and sub-titles and stuff it struck me that I have been evil and added quite a few <font colour="khaki"/> to items. I know too little about items to know if all of the colouring follows a pattern, or not, if it possible to automate colouring better, or not.

Maybe the khaki I have seen are only for weapons? Should we have different templates for weapons, armour and other items if that would help?? With a bot that job would be done in a snap, but the question is, do we benefit from having specialized templates for those trickier items?
-- Zimoon (talk) 18:09, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Yes, you are indeed terribly evil. >:]
Joking... maybe. Regarding adding khaki to items, I guess it's mostly on stuff like what was covered in this discussion? It's been planned to have more specific templates for certain kinds of items, which would hopefully a) help us make the code for each one much less complicated, b) mean less jobs whenever one needed to be updated, and c) be easier to edit (much fewer parameters). I think Amphoras got one or two of those ready - my brainstorming page has some comments from him about progress there.
Also, as a side note, try {{Color}}. It's a little shorter and the font tag has been deprecated by the W3C. It still works, but who wants to use outdated methods? :P I was going to suggest <small> for you to use on creature pages, but that doesn't work as nicely. Will have to wait for someone to update the creature template with the new parameter, then you can clean out the font tags. Sethladan 19:09, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for the link and yes I think that one covers it all. Sorry that I had missed that one, I prolly noticed it at some point but was too much to read so ... :P
-- Zimoon (talk) 20:47, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Issue with Safar and Liquid thereads

Until LOTROadmin mentioned it, I have been running "the latest" Safari since the day it was released as part of Mountain Lion.

I just checked and Version 6.0 (8536.25) is the current version.

If you look at the thread where LOTROadmin mentioned the Safari issue.... I had posted there previously, as well as to Zimoon's LQT and my own. (Just noticed, it was 2 hours earlier than LOTROAdmin's post.)

Now, LQT does not even load or update. Which is to say, I suspect a server side issue, not client.

Please pass this comment along, as I can not convince LQT to do anything except there and spin it's pretty little swirllies -- reminds me of the problem that, I think it was, RTC had some time ago with LQT -- they worked fine for everyone else, but his would not work.

Smells to me like a buggered cache, but that is simply a "blue-sky" guess.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 10:51, 14 August 2012 (EDT)

I cannot figure this one out...

I've been creating missing Hunter armour sets....

Using "Create Item Sets" from the help page,

I created The Huntsman's Armour The Bowmaster's Armour and Armour of the Trapper.

Armour of the trapper is fine, but the other two are NOT right justifying the set box. I cannot figure out why.

Is it the Possessive (i.e. the apostrophe) in the set name? Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:39, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Seems to be, yeah. Use {{subst:PAGENAME}} on that |name parameter to slap it into shape. Sethladan 17:20, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

No problem! And thank you for reminding me that I thought of a fix for all those PAGENAME and apostrophe problems. Now I just have to work it in as I make my rounds. :-P Sethladan 19:58, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Tabs

Thank you for the delete tab id :) With that, I guess that makes its way along with the last 3 tabs to be added. (In fact, there's another called "message" that appears on mediawiki pages like css, but I don't see much sense in it, I think I'll just use page instead) --Gwenwyfar (talk) 10:46, 14 September 2012 (EDT)

I've just added the delete tab. Could you give a look to see if everything looks ok? (image not cut off/all working as they should/nothing missing)
--Gwenwyfar (talk) 12:25, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
Looks good to me - nice job! Sethladan 13:11, 18 September 2012 (EDT)
Alright, thanks again :)
--Gwenwyfar (talk) 13:15, 18 September 2012 (EDT)

Yet another template question

On the page Shadowfax, I have entered his role as "Leader of the Mearas" ... however, this generates a "one-entry" category of the same name "Leader of the Mearas NPCs." Is there a way to prevent that other than simply not using "role?" Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 17:20, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

I guess the other option would be to use the "|title = " parameter, which I don't think autocategorizes, but it's usually only reserved for when the NPC has a title displayed below their name. Is there any reason for "Leader of the Mearas" to be in the infobox other than for lore/flavour purposes? (I haven't done Discovering the Descendant or the beta, so I've yet to see this guy in-game.) Sethladan 18:14, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Just lore, that's just who Shadowfax is. We have actually not encountered him in-game (or beta) except as part of the ending sequence in Discovering the Descendent. I had just never encountered the "role" parameter and was surprised to find it generate a category. Title works fine. LoL -- Title vs Role ... an interesting semantic difference. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 14:13, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Don't ask me - I didn't invent this stuff, I just maintain it. :-P Sethladan 19:02, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

2nd opinion

Heya, could you come into irc tonight? I need a 2nd opinion on something :) --EoD (talk) 15:14, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

You were totally right, thanks a lot! {{ts}} and {{te}} seems to work perfectly :) --EoD (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2012 (EDT)
Sorry, but your 2nd opinion might still be required at the infobox quest talk page. Feel free to tell others to comment, before I break everything :) --EoD (talk) 18:56, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

I need an interpretation

I think you're around more than EoD of late, so I'll pick on you, even though "he did it!"

I've been playing with User:Magill/Sandbox-4A off and on for a while now, including over on the test wiki.

The original came from User:Marble/Sandbox and the last change, by EoD, there is my question...

{{Item:{{{Weapon_Secondary|None}}}|mode=icon}}

If you look at User:Magill/Valwood for example, The Rune-keeper has no secondary weapon.
As I interpret that parameter, one of two things should happen -- either it should display "None" when no parameter is present OR if you specify the value as "|weapon_Secondary | None" -- it should display "None".

What does display in the latter case is "Item:None", and if you leave the value blank, you get "'''{{Item:|mode=icon}}'''"

So... am I wrong in my interpretation, or is the "phrase" wrong, i.e. the actual template parameter doesn't exist, or doesn't work as expected.

The original goal is to someday be able to automate the retrieval of information from data.lotro.com and then slap it into the Character Sheet. Something we could do on a periodic basis "server wide" rather than on an individual query basis. Buried down on User:Magill/Sandbox-4 under Notes, is the explanation of the data.lotro.com html call.

I haven't checked recently, but the last time I looked, the Lorebook was still missing A LOT of the ROI items. (Like most of the Armour Valamar has.) I have to check the character sheets at my.lotro.com to see -- those sheets are a "cross-product" of data.lotro.com and the lorebook information.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:30, 23 September 2012 (EDT)

I remember back when Marble started playing with it, and again when you picked up on it, and have even used your data.lotro notes myself for fiddling around with stuff. Really exciting, if we could ever get the SOAP processes to work and data.lotro catches up to the current state of the game.
It looks like the code is doing what it's supposed to do, and you're using it the way it's supposed to be used, but what it's outputting probably isn't ideal. I guess it'd look nicer if it displayed a greyed-out empty box or something, like what you see in-game for a slot with nothing equipped? This could certainly be done pretty easily with just a bit of rejiggering the #if statements (and uploading some icons for empty slots). You'd then need to do | weapon_seconday = (that is, leaving it blank), although we can also configure it to blank on none if you like that, too.
Let me know how you'd like it to look, if you do want it to just say "none" or if you like the unequipped-boxes look from the character sheet. I can either do it up real quick myself or see if EoD's up to the task - he's on holiday and has been playing with a couple of wiki things recently, so he might enjoy the diversion. Sethladan 01:26, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

I guess what should happen is when "None" is supplied as the parameter value -- which is apparently intended as some kind of "default type" value, the word "None" without the "Item:" prefix should be displayed. Put another way "Item:None" can easily be created and displayed like the in-game shield on that lower row, except that any of the 5 locations in that row can have nothing equipped and each has a different icon. Similarly, the other "positions" have a "generic grey" clothing icon for their "nothing specified" display.

My.lotro.com Character Sheet "equipment" from a low level LM - File:Generics-1.png

The character sheets on My.lotro.com display a blue question mark if they do not have an image for an item, but do have a tool-tip for it, so that is not a "none" situation.

My.lotro.com Character Sheet "equipment" from a hunter where a tool-tip exists but with no icon - File:Generics-2.png

The "reality" is that the data.lotro.com feed often simply does not supply certain values, so I guess the CORRECT answer is, the template (User:Magill/Sandbox-4A) should provide the generic "grey" icons as defaults to be over written. In which case "None" would not be a value required but rather the | weapon_seconday = (that is, leaving it blank). Now I just have to figure out how to modify the template that way.

What you'll probably need to do is change each of these lines:
{{Item:{{{Head|None}}}|mode=icon}}
to
{{#if: {{{Head|}}} | {{:Item:{{{Head}}}|mode=icon}} | [[File:Unequipped Head-icon.png]] }} (That is, if a "Head" item is defined, use it, otherwise (if blank) display the grey box. You'll need to upload those grey box images from the game, though, or you can use File:-icon.png as a placeholder.)
Hope that helps a little! Sethladan 11:16, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

So far so good... collecting the icons now. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:08, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

OK, That worked well. Here's a related(not much) question... is there an easy way to superimpose "level" on top of the Shield? Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 20:41, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Glad it worked! I did a little relative positioning with the level, so it should nicely overlay the shield now. Notice that if the level cell gets wide enough for the level to sit next to the shield instead of flowing underneath it, this will break and the number will end up going above and to the right of the image, but seems to be working for now. Sethladan 22:34, 25 September 2012 (EDT)

Very nice. Thank you! I think the rest of the cells are now static. (I hope.) Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 10:49, 26 September 2012 (EDT)

For you?

Talk:Cosmetics - Head -- Zimoon (talk) 13:10, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

Just to let you know in case you didn't notice yet: Your message got cut off in half there :P
Gwenwyfar (talk) 20:04, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

Creatures Discussion

Talk:Creatures#Longer Discussion on Same-name Creatures -- Zimoon (talk) 08:00, 29 September 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Creatures#Longer Discussion on Same-name Creatures -- 2 -- Zimoon (talk) 14:09, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
This was most for info, not so that you should quit studies and dig into MediaWiki again ;) -- Zimoon (talk) 01:54, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
Heheh, thanks for the clarification. I do check in once in a while and read random conversations, but no diving into MediaWiki seriously. Still... can't help trying something new every once in a while. :) Sethladan 19:50, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

Epic Icons are no more...

I moved the 3 icons in what used to be Category:Epic Icons into Category:Bonus Icons with the rest of them. (Except for the ones which are actually in the Store category.)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 21:47, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

Another question

Elinnea and I have been beating some of the Mounted Combat stuff over the head: User talk:Elinnea/Sandbox-MountedCombat. (Trying to force Turbine's square pegs into the round holes of the Wiki.)

I created: User:Magill/Projects-Ror-Mounted Combat skills by class and encountered a "thingie."

Is it possible to put (and or float) the individual Template Skill boxes onto one line?

Basically, besides the three Disciplines: Red Dawn, Rohirrim, and Riddermark, which "need" to be compared to each other, to realize the different effects...

Each Discipline has the same six "Skills" -- and just to confuse things, with the Hunter they are all the same name !!! Other classes have slightly different names.

So, as I started at the top of that page, in "narrative form," the ideal display of the "tool tips." would be columnar:

Red Dawn Rohirrim Riddermark
Establishing Shot Establishing Shot Establishing Shot
Seeking Arrow Seeking Arrow Seeking Arrow
Flay Open Flay Open Flay Open
Noble Arrow Noble Arrow Noble Arrow
Spread of Arrows Spread of Arrows Spread of Arrows
Kill Shot Kill Shot Kill Shot

You'll also note on her page, a couple of the "needed" Template mods we encountered. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 22:06, 1 October 2012 (EDT)

You can put each one inside a div that floats left, and they will stay on the same line. Alternatively, if you think this can be useful for other pages, you can add in the template an option to clear/not clear it. Because it does at the end (that's why you need the divs, otherwise I believe it would line up normally).
Gwenwyfar (talk) 15:24, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Bingo! Thank You. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:26, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

I was going to suggest the same, or just use tables and hang them each in a cell. School is picking up again, though, so I'm not going to be much help around here for a couple of months again. (Add to that - ugh - looking at Master's programs.) Sorry to abandon y'all with lootboxes still not working and RoR imminent! :( Sethladan 23:05, 2 October 2012 (EDT)
Eggolass has been working on a nifty Template:Other Outputs for handling the multi-outputs for crafting, and lootboxes seem to be working adequately for their other purposes, so it should be ok to leave that project hanging. You take care and study hard. =) -- Elinnea (talk) 23:56, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Template assistance?

Hi Seth, I know you're away, but if you get any chance, could you take a look at Template talk:Effect#Category Leakage? And similarly, the template I made at Template:War-steed Trait? I'm wondering if I'm interpreting and implementing the #ifeq construction correctly for the categorization. No pressure if you're busy, I just don't know who else is still around who does templates so I can ask these kinds of questions. (If you're some other mystery template expert reading this, your help would also be welcomed!) Googling "wiki template" only gets one so far. -- Elinnea (talk) 01:43, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

I probably can't help much too, but there are some good manuals of parser functions out there, on wikipedia too I believe. I didn't understand a thing of what they meant when I started learning it, but its a good way to see all the possibilities once you know the basics (which you probably do) :P Although I still think many wikipedia examples are too confusing with all the numbers and random letters.
Gwenwyfar (talk) 07:34, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
I sure miss Seth, EoD, Adelas, and those gurus hehe. To save myself the time to walk over older locations and polish on whatever needing a polish I have tried hard to stay out of coding. I also get enough of coding at my daily work :P But if need I may take a break from all other stuff on my todo-list and dive into this, it will take a while to get even ½-way of our gurus :( -- Zimoon (talk) 07:47, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
Yes, indeed. I used to just toss out an idea and one of them would have it whipped up in no time. Not having them around has forced me to learn a lot about this style of coding in the past few weeks, which is a good thing - but I still wish we could have a guru around from time to time, hehe. -- Elinnea (talk) 09:50, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
It looks like you got the ifeq working on Effects, so hooray! I hate not having the spare time to work on templates for you guys; it was fulfilling to be able to make cool stuff happen when people asked for it. :) War-steed Trait looks okay to me, too, at least the ifeq/disambig part - was there something in particular you wanted a hand with?
Also, for the masochi...I mean, curious, I got started with reading about templates here (the link is also on my user page, near the bottom). Everything from there on in was just practice and preview. The people who'll read this are already familiar enough with wiki-things to get over the first step (which took me a while) of wrapping your head around what a template actually is in the most general basic of senses; beyond that it just boils down to keeping your braces and bars organized. Sethladan 21:54, 28 October 2012 (EDT)
Huh, I followed that link, and then went to bookmark it, and apparently I already had it bookmarked? I have no memory of this site. It must have been sometime back when I was using Firefox, and then I switched to Chrome and my bookmarks automatically shifted with me. What do you know, I ought to keep better track of the resources I already have, haha! -- Elinnea (talk) 22:51, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

I see you...

... go back to your Calculus now, shoo, shoo...
:P -- Zimoon (talk) 19:11, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

Hahahah, I am innocent! School closed for two days on account of the storm of the century. Safe and cosy in my third floor flat here. Sethladan 20:30, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
If anyone was following the hurricane situation here in the northeast US, the situation is pretty bad for a lot of people, but I am fortunately fine and staying with family now until power is restored to my town. Building was surrounded by about three feet of water throughout Tuesday, and some of my friends had their apartments flooded and things destroyed. The wonders of living on the coast... Sethladan 19:01, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Good to hear you're all right out there, Seth. I hope everything is returned to normal there soon (although not good for the wiki, of course :P). --Ravanel (talk) 19:08, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Glad to hear that you are safe and hope that anyone dealing with the aftermath is fine as well. (I will point out that there was a small spike in traffic on Monday :) ) --Lotroadmin (talk) 20:56, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
Have been watching the news but felt good to know you were "safe and cosy in <your> third floor flat" though wondered how long you would be able to stay up there until food & stuff were drained. I indeed hope the restoration work for those living lower will go quick and smoothly, ready long before the winter-cold freezes it all over. Take care mate! -- Zimoon (talk) 03:00, 2 November 2012 (EDT)
Thanks all for the concern. Now back at home with power and internet. Hot water heaters need to be replaced, but that should be taken care of in the next couple of days, and now I'm off to restock on groceries. Lots of people in the area still without power, but things are drudging their way back to normalcy as we continue to clean up all the crud the flood brought through our town, heh. Sethladan 15:22, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for keeping us updated. Glad to read you are doing OK even though I now understand you got in more troubles than I first anticipated. Keep smiling, there will be a tomorrow! -- Zimoon (talk) 05:52, 4 November 2012 (EST)


He lives! Nice to see you poking around these parts again. :D -- Elinnea (talk) 22:37, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

Hah, I wondered how much mischief I could cause before getting caught. How've you been?! :) Flirting with coming out of retirement for various reasons, and figured I'd do some clean-up work while redownloading/updating the game client. Any areas in particular most in need of help? Sethladan 22:41, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
Pretty much anything at this point, heh. Our regular editors have dwindled down to very few in the last couple months, and it's been tough to keep up with everything. I've got more half-finished projects than you could shake a stick at!
We did finally convert the skill template to enable tooltip popups, which is very cool, even if it did briefly break every skill page on the wiki. The fallout is mostly cleaned up, but it's not being used to its full potential yet. Of course, with big class revamps coming up "soon", I'm very un-motivated to do much of anything with class/skill updates. Until I get to quit my job and have somebody pay me to write wiki pages.
I'd love to have you back editing with us, only if your time and energy permits of course. Retirement can be a pleasant thing as well. ;) -- Elinnea (talk) 22:53, 28 August 2013 (EDT)
Those major incoming updates constitute one of the reasons I wanted to come back; seeing that it was only you and Magill among my contemporaries still doing heavy lifting was another, heh. I'll see what strikes me, and check in with Bill and Lotroadmin as well. Thanks again for the welcome! Sethladan 23:02, 28 August 2013 (EDT)

Altrows js

Hey, seth, when you have the time, could you give a look into this? Seems simple enough to just remove the code related to altrows, but I know nothing of js, so I'd better not try :P Gwenwyfar (talk) 20:06, 21 December 2012 (EST)

Are you back?

If you are, I have a number of questions about botting and templates... of course I have to remember what they were...:) Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 08:59, 30 August 2013 (EDT)

Yes sir! Although not yet sure to what capacity yet. Can't help much with botting as I never managed to get one set up (still thinking about trying, though), but I can definitely field any template questions you can remember and want to throw at me. I was planning to ask you what all needed doing around here (see exchange with Elin above), anyway... :) Sethladan 13:14, 30 August 2013 (EDT)
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