User talk:Markus
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 Hello, Markus, and welcome to LotRO-Wiki, the Lord of the Rings Online Wiki! Some useful pointers:
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Good job with all those Wildermore quests today! Always takes a massive amount of discipline to copy and log everything, so my hat's off to you. :) Sethladan 14:20, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
- Thanks! Unfortunately I lacked a litte bit of discipline, so the last couple of Balewood quests are still missing... maybe with next character :-) Markus (talk) 19:15, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
A convention
Use "<name>" rather than "<Player>" to be consistent with other quests.
This one is a toss-up
Consider simply leaving the word "amount" off the IXP and SXP templates -- i.e. just use {{IXP}} and {{SXP}} when you don't have the actual amount. Especially since determining those two amounts can be difficult, what with all of the differing XP bonuses around these days.
It's a toss-up as to which technique you use. Some prefer to leave "amount" simply to indicate that it needs to be filled in. I leave it off simply because it seems "cleaner." (And because I usually simply type in the names rather than cut and paste from the boilerplate.)
Changes I made in Kingstead/Entwade
Thanks for all of the work on the West Rohan Quests. I still haven't really done any questing there, so your work will be a useful guide! Been busy trying to "catch up" all kinds of other missing pieces from all the recent updates. :)
I just realized that I never really finished "setting up" the Categories for the areas in West Rohan. (I have to to do this with the other areas also.) Briefly, quests should be in Settlements within Areas.
- I've revised Category: Kingstead Quests to match "east rohan" areas Category: Sutcrofts Quests, for example.
- Creating: Category: Entwade Quests, Category: Middlemead Quests, Category: Underharrow Quests, Category: Edoras Quests.
- These "Settlement Categories" are then transcluded into the "Area" Category. (It also cleans out the extra entries from the Contents listings in the quests!)
- To keep the Quest listings, the quest group entries are changed to match.
- In the process, I've also tweaked some of the quest infobox descriptions. There are really no quests which begin in the Area itself (Starting Location), in those cases, they should either be blank or the nearby settlement. Similarly, the Entwade Mead Hall will not get its own page as it doesn't have any information there except for the one NPC, so I "un-wikified" it.
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 22:18, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
- Great, thank you very much! This startingarea-thing I always was unsure about and I always wanted to ask how to do it properly. Under startinglocation I always put the area-name under the minimap, hence every quest in Entwade was either Kingstead or Entwade Mead Hall, but I wasn't sure that this was correct. Will do as instructed from now on :-) Should the startingarea always be the nearest settlement or should it be more detailed if neccessary, or for instance for Quest:No Word from Middlemead should it be just 'Entwade' or something like 'crossroad west of Entwade'?
- Markus (talk) 09:33, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
- This is another of those "judgement calls." There are no hard and fast rules. -- The boilerplate describes "starting location" as:
- the most specific of Landmark, Interior, Settlement, Area, or Region
- To understand "most specific," view the subsequent list as being from "most specific" to "least specific."
- "Landmark," "Interior," and "Settlement" are almost both self-defining and clearly "unique." So a quest which begins with an NPC located inside the Entwade Mead Hall, then "Entwade Mead Hall" becomes the starting location. Whereas quests which begin with Thane Edric standing by the Stable-master the starting location would be "Entwade."
- Kenbert becomes a toss-up. Kingstead is a HUGE area, so the nearest "logical" location would be "Entwade" -- primarily because that is where the quest relates. Alternately if the quest related more to Middlemead, you could pick that.
- The goal is to simply proved logical information which will help a player "place" a given quest and find the quest-giver. Ideally, the coordinates do that, but they are more difficult to use in-game, than a verbal description. 'crossroad west of Entwade' makes as much sense as anything, The trick is to prevent the "infobox" to the right from getting "ugly."
- This is another of those "judgement calls." There are no hard and fast rules. -- The boilerplate describes "starting location" as:
- All of that aside, another "topic" I just realized has gotten "dropped" -- the issue of quest gating. (This discussion exists someplace, but I don't recall where.)
- Starting back with Dunland, Turbine began seriously "gating" quests -- i.e.you had to complete X before you would be offered Y.Previous to Dunland, one could simply go around to NPCs with rings over their heads, collect a bunch of quests, complete them and then turn them in en-mass. With Return of Isengard (Dunland), that began to change. You might see one or two NPCs in an area with rings, but that was all. You had to have completed some previous quest (one of the Epic quests) before you would see the remainder of the NPCs offering quests. And even then, those quests were "sequential."
- We experimented with simply using "Prerequisite" phraseology, but that typically only took you "one step" back -- you still had to figure out how to trigger THAT quest. So what we started doing was "Numbering" the quests in the sequence in which they were required, "Indenting and Dotting" those quests which could be done simultaneously. Again, Category: Sutcrofts Quests, is a good example.
- This structure worked well with East Rohan (Riders of Rohan). However, I do not know how "completely" it still works with West Rohan (Helm's Deep). Other than the fact that the quests don't unlock until you have completed Chapter 1 of the Epic, I do not know how the rest are linked ... other than the sequnce of areas:
- Kingstead
- Eastfold
- Broadacres
- Stonedeans
- Westfold
- That sequence is (theoretically) the progression of quest levels. i.e. the starting level of each quest gets higher.
- That said, within areas, I don't know the sequence -- Kingstead appears to begin with Eowyn vectoring you to Entwade at the end of Chapter 1.
- One presumes that next will be Middlemead -- but the "placement" of Edoras and Underharrow are, to me at the moment, a mystery.
- I do not even know if Quest gating is as significant an issue in West Rohan as it was in East Rohan! So far, in the parts I have done on Bullroarer, I have had Eóomer tell me twice to go "check out" Aldburg "when I have time," but no real "vector quest" -- typically a: go to x, talk to y, do z - kind of quest.
My apologies for "brain-dumping," but much of the Wiki is very much "oral" tradition and techniques tend to get lost even as Turbine revises their own "stuff" and makes them obsolete!
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 19:35, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for all the info, this is really helpful :-)
- I my experience this 'quest gating' is used in West Rohan to the same extend as it has been used in East Rohan, so I will proceed with the quest numbering.
- There are really some vector quests missing at the moment, this check on Aldburg thing had me puzzeled as well. And, when I was playing West Rohan with my first character I sometimes was unsure what the 'narratively correct order' would be for epic quests vs. non epic quests. Maybe this will be more clear on my second round :-)
- Markus (talk) 17:35, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Markus, is there anything I can do to help with West Rohan quests? I'm new to wiki-ing quests, but maybe I can help fill in stuff. Please let me know, thanks! :) -Laineth (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Laineth, I'm quite new myself, so I'm not sure what to recommend... :-) I just startet on the Help Quest Page, and then picked some quest and put the information in the boilerplate. Markus (talk) 11:20, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Markus, is there anything I can do to help with West Rohan quests? I'm new to wiki-ing quests, but maybe I can help fill in stuff. Please let me know, thanks! :) -Laineth (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Promotion to Editor
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Quest Sequencing
Following up on the above discussion of sequencing (quest vectoring) - I was going through some old screenshots from the Beta and created Quest:Word from Edoras and arbitrarily stuck it at the end of the Category: Edoras Quests. I happen to know (from the sequence of screen shots) that at least during the beta, Gandalf appeared by the fountain BEFORE I had done any of the Entwade quests. However, I don't know what level I was when he appeared. (I was 95 in the screen shot.) I had completed Book 11, so I don't know if he appeared AFTER I finished that last instance or when. I also haven't "re-found" when Éomer tells you to "keep an eye on" Aldberg.
So, keep an eye out. :)
- Sticking my nose in: Éomer mentions Aldburg at least twice, one is during the instance where Théoden and company ride off from Edoras. I also do remember Gandalf appearing at the fountain near the entrance of Edoras along with the messenger bloke who phases in and out to vector you around the Westemnet. The messenger, once he appears (after the same instance?), seems to offer his quests based on your level regardless of any other prereqs, as he had two or three for me at around level 90, one of which was to talk to Gandalf who happened to be standing right next to him.
- This was in the live game, about a month ago. My initial impression was that you sort of had the option of going to Aldburg or to Entwade once you'd finished with Théoden, but I can't confirm that for sure - I did the Entwade side of things first. Hope it helps somewhat! Sethladan 18:13, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Moving/renaming pages
I guess I forgot to stick this here for you. See the last tip for how to move.
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