Template talk:Item Tooltip/archive 3

From Lotro-Wiki.com
Jump to navigation Jump to search

This is Archive 3

See Create new item to create a new item.
See Boilerplate:Item for a clean template and other options.


Sealed relics

I added a mode=embed parameter to the Relic template so that relics can be transcluded onto sealed relic or LI tooltips. That would allow us to replace the three relic parameters on this template with a single param like |relic=Device of Vitality, and not have to duplicate icon and attribute information. See Item:Sealed Westfold Device of Vitality for an example of how it could work. -- Eggolass (talk) 03:04, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

This will be a great improvement. It will be much easier to link the sealed relic items to unsealed relics. Hopefully, new sealed relic items will get linked to the relics more often in the future, and it will be easy to retrofit existing relic items with links to the embedded relics. I'd use that revised template right now, if it was available. RingTailCat (talk) 02:07, 13 March 2013 (EDT)

Questreq, mounted, range possition

Recently I was reviewing some Lórien items, and came across Item:Lórien Field Bandage. There are a couple of things that don't show up right in the tooltip. Have a look at the screenshot (04/22/13)
:

  • Melee skill is grey, not green
  • 10m Range is below Induction and above Cooldown
  • Questreq is orange and does not have the text Requires:
  • Not usable mounted is not added to the template yet

The last one about usable mounted only shows up if you're on your warsteed, so properly not necessary to add to the temple. The other point though should be reviewed. Do other items have the same issue?? --Tiberivs (talk) 04:27, 22 April 2013 (EDT)

Quest targets

Similarly noticed... Items which are needed for quest completion now carry the quest name and item count. It also no longer caries an icon.

game image, compaorange to Item:Arcane Mechanism

Proc on

Does anyone know what the tooltips for the new "proc" stuff looks like?


suggested additions

The easy ones. Add:

  1. Usemtd: <!-- blank or No; if no displays "Not useable mounted" in orange text. -->
  2. Questitem: <!-- name of quest this item is required for; display in green -->
  3. Questcount: <!-- number of items required by quest; will display o/<questcount> in white
  • Wiki-Items to do:
* Template:Item Tooltip/doc - update
* Template:Item Tooltip - Verify: transclude Template:Item Tooltip/doc
* Boilerplate:Item - Convert to transclude Template:Item Tooltip/doc
* Template:Item Tooltip/Preload - update with stripped copy from doc file.
* Create_new_item - verify
Minor fix RingTailCat (talk) 15:24, 23 April 2013 (EDT)

Issues

Yet another can of worms as I begin consolidating the 3 different sources of information about Item Tooltip.

  1. Template:Item Tooltip apparently has a value: "single use" -- is this an artifact? It appears to parallel Template:Recipe i.e. when Item was used to create recipes, before Template: Recipe existed. Can it be deleted from Template:Item Tooltip?... otherwise it needs to be documented as existing, and included in the Preload.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:57, 22 April 2013 (EDT)

Undocumented/incomplete changes...

In trying to figure out what | amount={{{amount|}}} is used for in many templates, or was intended to be used for... I noted two topics in this thread which appear to have partially completed changes.

I don't see what, if anything, happens with this parameter filled in. ( |relic= ) i.e. I don't know what it is intended to do.
  • now I can't find the second one... :(

Relatedly, with the existence of Template:Relic can we simply delete those 3 relic parameters.... at best they produce a wrong tooltip.

All of the entries on the Relics page point to the Relic: name space, not Item:.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:57, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
| amount={{{amount|}}} is used to set the number of say items for example. Eg. 10 Mithril Coin
| amount={{{amount|}}} is what makes the 10 appear.
For the relic issue, it looks as though that was an idea that was being worked on here but not finished/not added into the full template. As for whether we can delete those parameters, possibly. I'm not sure whether they are used anywhere else on the wiki, but either way it would be good to make sure there's one clear way to do things. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 13:42, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

I suspected something as such.... now the question becomes -- how do we document that, i.e. which template(s) does it apply to, or does/should it apply to all?

(Needsless to say, this is all part of my User:Magill/Project-Documentation efforts.)

Of course a similar question applies to the other two opening arguments in many templates, which are currently listed as:

| mode={{{mode|}}}
Leave as is
| arg={{{arg|}}}
Leave as is
| amount={{{amount|}}}
Leave as is
  • And I'm noticing as I play with this... while Template:Barter and Template:Reward are similar -- with Barter having "float" but lacking "plural," but otherwise identical from what I can tell -- Template:Other Outputs is not implemented to accept/pass the Reward parameter "plural!" Aha consistency...

Which leads me to the second thing I couldn't find the "float=" keyword... because it was with Template:Reward and Template:Barter

  • See:
Template_talk:Reward#Proposed_Chages
Template_talk:Other_Outputs#Proposed_Changes
Template talk:Barter
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:30, 14 August 2013 (EDT)
  • I envision some generic documentation to be transclusded into the various .../doc files. It appears that all or at least many, of the Templates use these parameters (or should).
Most noticeably recent modifications to Templates for Skill/Traits/Effects are what triggered my interest.

Defining and providing usage examples. (Hopefully these things are or can be standardized across all of the templates).

Something along the lines of .... Sigh... always happens .. open up a can of worms... just found that most ?all? of these are documented at Template:Tooltip|}

Oh well, back to the Template:Barter and Template:Reward merger ...

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:30, 14 August 2013 (EDT)

My actual understanding of tooltip templates

Actually, our templates Template:Item Tooltip, Template:Effect, Template:Skill & Template:Trait are all using a 2nd template Template:Tooltip which uses a 3rd template Template:Icon.

Parameters mode={{{mode|}}}, arg={{{arg|}}} & amount={{{amount|}}} seem only there to "pass" the parameter to the 2nd template Tooltip.

  • Item Tooltip uses all 3, arg to optionally override name, considered by template Tooltip (rename doesn't seem used, could be removed in template)
    • Template:Reward is a shortcut to not use prefix "Item:" but ends calling an item page, it uses arg, rename or plural to be passed as arg and uses by default "mode=imlink_plain"; if Item Tooltip was using imlink_plain instead of imlink by default (2nd line of template) and if we don't mind using as example {{:Item:Silver Token of the Wilds}} instead of {{Reward|Silver Token of the Wilds}}, Reward could be considered obsolete
    • Template:Barter is not calling any template or item page so that's why it lacks the ability to fetch the proper icon, but this allows to place the text as needed; if the float option would be directly in template Tooltip, Barter could be considered obsolete
  • Templates Effect, Skill & Trait are all
    • not using amount, that's OK not needed
    • using mode, still useful to control the look of the link
    • using rename, but I don't think of any situation where the text should be renamed for an effect, skill or trait, so those templates could be modified to remove this line
| rename       = {{{arg|{{{rename|}}}}}}
and change
| name         = {{#if:{{{arg|{{{rename|}}}}}}|{{{arg|{{{rename|}}}}}}|{{{name}}}}}
to pass the parameter as is
| name         = {{{name}}}
and remove this line in /doc pages, not used anyway in template
| arg={{{arg|}}}         Leave as is

-- Goingbald (talk) 02:37, 15 August 2013 (EDT)

From what I remember, this seems right. The reason for the arg/rename thing is that originally, arg was there to change various things as necessary. It ended up that the only thing it was really used for was renaming stuff. So in some places rename was used instead.
There's so much half finished stuff going on with templates. The plan was to re-write how a lot of stuff worked, eg. using separate templates for different item types to cut down on the number of unused parameters all over the place. I actually created several of the new templates, but they were never put into use. I think the amount of work it would have taken to convert everything and make sure nothing broke was just too much, and people got busy with other stuff and it kindof fell away. I'm sure there was a load of stuff with traits, and auto-updating tables (currently if a trait changes, you need to make edits on several pages) I was working on to make things easier to maintain, but again it was a lot of work to get it going. Most of it was on the test wiki, and I think I saved it in various pages in my userspace as well if anyone is interested.
In summary, there's lots of stuff that was planned/started but wasn't quite finished, so we still see bits of it around that aren't being used properly yet. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 16:51, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

Comment from RTC on "Relic:" names and parameres

| amount={{{amount|}}} ensures that the parameter has a value. There is a subtle difference between a parameter that is undefined, and a parameter with a blank value. This ensures that the parameter has a blank value. The whole line is creating a parameter for the call to Template:Tooltip which does a lot of common formatting for different kinds of tooltips. Basically, the input parameter is being passed along to the next level of template.
BTW, "Relic:" is not actually a namespace, as far as the search page is concerned. All the namespaces are (or should be) listed when you display the advanced search. Just using a "Name:" does not make a namespace; the admin has to do some configuration changes.
RingTailCat (talk) 13:03, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

Changes for Update 12: Helm's Deep

So far the most obvious change is the addition of "Item Level: ##" between the "bind" and "barter" parameters. This is easily done, however, if we want to categorize based on this, we may have a conflict with Category:Items by Level and the "level" parameter. Anybody have a resolution for this? Any other additions to be made? Neum (talk) 10:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

  1. The parameter "item_level" has been added to the "Create a new item" and "Boilerplate:Item" - but it does not "auto categorize"
  2. I have "commented" the Category pages for each of the Category:Items by Level pages to include the two lines:
    * NOTE: These categories refers to the minimum level of the Player Character able to use the item.
    They do NOT refer to the "Item Level" parameter introduced (displayed) on the tool-tip with the release of Helm's Deep - Update 12.
  3. Ideally, I would change "Category: Item Level xx" to be "Category: Minimum Level xx" and then introduce the revised "Category: Item Level" -- fixing the Categories themselves is easy; however fixing the CONTENTS of those categories is beyond my "botting skills."
    1. - Build the new Category tree: Category: Minimum Level, and its 99 sub categories. A manual process
    2. Bot Step 1 - change all occurrences of "Category: Item Level" and "Category:Item Level" to be "Category: Minimum Level"
      Note that ":space" is the recommended syntax today, but it has not always been.
    3. Bot Step 2 - IF "item_level" EXISTS, add the new category to the page
    4. Bot Step 3 - IF "item_level" DOES NOT exist create "| item_level = " as blank -- possibly categorize it as Level 00 until the correct level can be identified.
Other comments
  1. I have read rumors on the forums that this entry in the in-game tool-tips was left in in error, needed as part of the Epic Battles "auto leveling" to 95 business, the display was "not intended" to remain. However, now that it has been in place through one update, the probability is that it will stick around.
  2. Epic Battles and "Character Upscaling while maintaing the level differential" may necessitate the ability to compare things by "Item Level," but I don't see what use there would be to simply finding items of a higher "item level" which the character cannot use. Although being able to find "Item Level" within "Character Level" would be potentially useful -- I don't see ANY mechanism on the Wiki which could support such a search/display (ignoring hand made tables).
  3. But then again, it may not. I don't have any idea how people might try to look for information.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magill (Contribs • User Talk) at 19:24, 24 December 2013‎.

Needed for Update 14: Slotted Armour: Essences

Update 14 has added a new form of Armour (and ultimately Jewellery) -- Slotted.

You can see a screen shot of the in-game tooltip at Essence.

Quest:Book 1: Chapter 2: The Ruthless Dead has the first Item rewards with slots --

I have fudged these three (so far) by inserting "| flavor = This item has 3 Essence slots" - which provides the information, but not "at first glance."

  • What is needed is a new paramter "Essence" which could have a value of 2,3 or 4 (that I know of at the moment.
This would display 2,3 or 4 "empty icon boxes" plus the adjacent text "Empty slot" - stacked vertically.
  • Who feels like making the update?
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 16:22, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
I'm game. Taking the opportunity to clean out a lot of the template code while I'm at it (instead of making several smaller edits) so give me a couple days to get this change in and make sure I haven't broken anything. Sethladan 19:44, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
How does Item:Light Nadhin Shoulders (rare) look? Sethladan 03:53, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Looks good... rotating (spinning in circles) sorting out what should be new naming conventions. :)
Item:Medium Nadhin Mask (incomparable) - is a 4 unit version
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Update to the Nadhin Armor items. Since there are so many level and rarity versions of each item I decided to organize the item versions the same way Legendary Items and Essence were organized. Creating rarity item versions in the wiki. Each rarity item page will have a table with all the level versions and all Nadhin Armor items will link to its matching rarity versions. Example:  Light Nadhin Shoulders - - Matthew.zellmer (talk) 13:18, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Looking for a way to account for same-name-items with different number of essence slots. Anyone know if the template can be made to account for x essences? Matthew.zellmer (talk) 11:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
The template currently supports from one to five essences via its essence parameter. The item pages for these special cases could be updated to accept the parameter and pass it forward e.g.
  {{Light Nadhin Shoulders (rare)|essences=3}}
but that sounds like a bad idea to me. Better, I think, to just create separate item pages for each and transcode common boilerplate:
  {{Light Nadhin Shoulders (3 essence)(rare)}} Snarpel (talk) 17:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Right now the Boilerplate:Item uses '+x stats' or 'x armor' as a standard format for multi-level items. I am thinking extending this same idea to the essence would be about the same and avoid adding extra suffixes to the item page name. -- Matthew.zellmer (talk) 15:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Had a good discussion at User_talk:Castorix#Nadhin_items, User:Tharondir built disambiguation item pages for all the Nadhin items, so we can use the disambigpages to divide out some of this. -- Matthew.zellmer (talk) 15:18, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
Has anyone looked at / figured out what Turbine is doing now? The entire way in which Items are identified on the WIKI is based upon the way Turbine identified things in the past.
As best I can tell, beginning with Helms Deep, when Turbine began displaying the "Item Level" on the tooltip, Turbine changed the way in which items were created and identified, and in particular, how icons were applied. I'm guessing, but do not know, the technique now being used here -- a common page with a table of values -- is much more consistant with how Turbine now does things.
Misc consistancy problems:
  • The main thing I noticed on the couple of pages I looked at for Light Nadhin Gauntlets -- the Tooltip shows Item Level as X -- but the table does NOT include the Item Level. Compare that to: Medium Nadhin Jacket -- the "Item Level" is completely missing from the former's table.
  • Personally, I would arrange the table left to right, to match the top to bottom display of the ToolTip
  • The "level" column in the table should be labeled "Minimum Level."
  • The Boilerplate:Item#Scaling_Item_details form - should be used for these tables. (Just drop the un-necessary columns)
  • The tooltip is now missing the "Worth" entry; the Jacket table is labeled "Sell" instead of Worth, and that information is missing from the gauntlets.
  • The two links at the top in the line: * This item has the same name for many levels and quality are worthless.
"Many Levels" and "Quality" are seriously Microsoftian. They point to things which while valid, provide no useful information for the current situation. They should either point to the index page for those items - Light Nadhin Gauntlets. (I don't like the term "Disambiguation page" - see the discussion Category talk:Disambiguation Pages) or point to
The thing that is really missing an Armour Set page, which lists the full set of items with the family name Nadhin.
  • And don't forget to wrap the Category statements with <noinclude></noinclude> statements!!!
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:01, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Big change today

Firstly, added in support for essences - currently 1, 2, 3, or 4. Also corrected the colour of "skilltype" and moved "range" to below "induction" per Tiberiv's bug report last April.

The following parameters have been removed from the code: "single use", "prof", "characteristic", and "bonustype", as they were unneeded/unused or duplicated by newer versions. I'm doing some bot work to remove all references to these (and other old parameters) from items out in the wild.

Finally, I stripped out all the comments in the code and tried to rearrange things to make it more readable (at least to me, hopefully so to others as well). With that much fiddling, there are bound to be missing braces or other little errors that I couldn't catch, so keep an eye out for weird behavior.

I think that's everything, although skimming the talk page again I realize too late that there's more work to be done as well. One thing at a time, heh. Sethladan 17:08, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Next edit

To avoid kicking off a bunch of jobs for a trivial edit, posting this here for inclusion in the next revision, whenever that is: The essence icons I added should probably be set to |link= (to link to nothing) so that they're not clickable and don't send people off to File:Empty Essence Slot-icon.png by accident. Sethladan 17:17, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Suggested addition to race line

Hey, I didn't want to just edit it without understanding completely if it would just break everything,

Currently the race tag only allows for the listing of 1 race, this doesn't work 100% when you have items that are listed for multiple races ed: Item:Return to Thorin's Gate it is listed for 4 races in game and while they're listed it lists the entire string as the race.

On my Test Page I've copied the coding lines for classes and substituted classes for race & Race(s) where needed. As I am not 100% on how to do this I have made this topic, but if this is indeed a correct way about going by it either let me know or add it in, thanks

--Ketrez (talk) 14:56, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll have to defer comments on your code to others who are far better at template syntax and logic than I am.]
However, the particular issue with a change such as this is actually simple. (Talk about funny usage of words.)
  • This template is VERY widely used (in all Items and any other pop-up!).
  • Therefore#1: any change needs to be 100% backwards compatible. I.e. the change does NOT require modifying existing usages of the Template.
  • Therefore#2: any change to this template will cause the MediaWiki engine to kick off MASSIVE updates of every usage.
All that said, there are only 5 races in PvE: Dwarf, Elf, Man, Hobbit, Beorning. And highly unlikely that there will ever be any others added as they do not fit the Lore.
The probability of any of the PvMP races sharing Items with PvE races I believe is similarly nil.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 08:11, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, I was only suppose only have up to race5 - but now thinking of it, it should only be up to race4 - as past that point it would be all races and would not be listed.
The problem with the edit is yes, that I don't know what it would do to all the existing pages that use it already that only use 1 race.
Only a few items I have seen that have multiple races listed are the kindred return to place skills and some other items. This isn't a huge deal - just a thought and if someone knows how to implement without killing us all it would prevent some items would link to [[:Category:Beorning, Elf, Man, Hobbit Items]] as an example
  • Unless you just want to make disambig pages for things like this going forward.
Ketrez (talk) 14:11, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
There were already 2 lines for multiple races in the categorization part of the template, I've modified these only for now so they show correctly for Item:Return to Thorin's Gate & Item:Return to Bree. -- Goingbald (talk) 23:55, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Unique Use

Unless I'm just not seeing it in the template, I think there's yet another variation.

The essences from Quartermaster_(Men_of_Ringló_Vale) / Quartermaster_(Men_of_Lebennin) / Quartermaster_(Men_of_Dor-en-Ernil) have a green "Unique Use" between the title and item level.

--Meyla (talk) 17:42, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Hmm... never saw that line before. Given the tool-tip descriptions I would assume that these are the standard "Uniquie" item -- only one per armour piece.
I know there has been discussion on the forums about using certain Essences multiple times, so this might be new with Update 18.
It looks easy enough to add.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:50, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
I was just checking those quartermasters, and it appears they were all re-worked recently.
Thanks for catching this one.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 18:57, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Some new colour name will need to be created then used for that new parameter, I've replaced green by darkgreen for now because green was coming out as white, not sure where they are currently defined... -- Goingbald (talk) 22:45, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
I believe that the colour definitions are in MediaWiki:Common.css. There is a "Item Tooltips" Section which appears to define allowable colours -- except the Green is, or should be, a default colour - see: Help:Named Colour Chart. I don't know why it didn't work, unless I spelled it wrong.
I don't know enough about the template language to know how/where things like inheritences are defined.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 02:34, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
I should ask before doing it blindly, do you want to add "| unique_use = " into the Template:Item Tooltip/Preload page for any or future items?
-Ketrez (talk) 02:45, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://lotro-wiki.com/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Item_Tooltip/archive_3&oldid=1463737"