In an effort to limit the number of small edits to the template (which causes a massive number of batch jobs) We may here submit a suggestion for next real edit. When an editor finally decides for a real edit, i.e. his/her edit is important or the number of small edits justify for it, s/he also includes these suggestions and empties this list.
Remove "(Icon)" from the following line, use the page Cooldown. Items Effect Cooldown -->{{#if:{{{cooldown|}}}|<li class="darkgreen">[[Cooldown (Item)|Cooldown]]: {{{cooldown}}}}} See history for Cooldown (Item).
Correct "Bind on Acquire" to "Bind On Acquire" since that's the in-game capitalization. Silver hr (talk) 07:09, 1 June 2012 (EDT)
I am not against it but we sometimes bend the in-game text, see Help:Names. If correct English is always lower case "on" this is open for discussion, if there is no grammar rule we will do the change at next time we must update this template. Thanks for spotting it though. -- Zimoon 20:08, 1 June 2012 (EDT)
Bind on Acquire, Bind to Account, Bind on Equip - I'd have to check the game to see how they treat the latter two, but if there's any inconsistency, then it makes more sense for us to overrule Turbine and impose order on their chaos. If they're all BOA/BTA/BOE, though, then there's definitely a solid argument for changing...however ugly it might look. :-P Sethladan 23:27, 16 June 2012 (EDT)
Reputation exceptions need to be added. See, for example, Item:Healer's Ring. It requires friend standing with Elves of Rivendell (Reputation), but points to [[Elves of Rivendell]] (which used to be a redirect until about two minutes ago, heheh). We have (off the top of my head) five reputations with (Reputation) at the end - Elves, Thorin's, Eldgang, and Inn League. (Although why we have split pages for the latter two, I dunno.) Sethladan 14:02, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
Quest Rep doesn't help here. I'm talking about inside the item's tooltip, where it links to the appropriate reputation page at "Required: Friend Standing with Elves of Rivendell." Sethladan 18:19, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
I was suggesting that code similar to what is in Quest Rep could be placed this template to achieve what you want. RingTailCat (talk) 18:28, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
Ah, okay. Sorry for misunderstanding. Sure; it's easy to do, I'm just adding it to the list. :-P Sethladan 01:15, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
add "Man, Elf" and "Dwarf, Hobbit" (and "Elf, Man" and "Hobbit, Dwarf" to be safe) to switch on race which generates "Category:<race> Items" near the bottom of template. See Item:Race Horse. RingTailCat (talk) 06:38, 31 July 2012 (EDT)
Parameters not used
For a new page, once the "full" tooptip is copied, is it OK or not to flush the unused parameters? --Goingbald 17:20, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Channel Duration
There is a channel duration of 1m 30s when using the Prized Mailbag, should it be an additional parameter? It should show in grey between the "On Use:" section and the "Cooldown". --16:37, 4 August 2010 (EDT)
Generally I say whatever it looks like in game is how it should be in the template as far as color and location goes. Rogue 01:37, 5 August 2010 (EDT)
Dye
I added the dye-parameter to the template. Yesterday I came across an item with a dye-type applied by default. -Tiberivs 04:57, 2 October 2010 (EDT)
Adding new elements
When people add sections or new perameters to this template they must also add those to the following:
As all those articles are used to create item pages and without the newly added sections or changed perameters new items will not be correct. Rogue 22:02, 19 October 2010 (EDT)
Collapsing Parameters
Is there still a need for having separate lines for an item's slot/type and bonus damage/bonus type? Sethladan 23:37, 23 December 2010 (EST)
Never mind, realized the point of separate slot and type lines for categorization. What throws me is that the in-game tooltip only displays one line (Ear, Medium Armour, One-handed Sword, etc) but if someone adds a type (Medium Armour) and a slot (Chest), both get displayed, even though that's the most logical way to fill out the template. Will see if this can be simplified. Sethladan 14:56, 24 December 2010 (EST)
Color
Should skilltype not be grey, like Range? And should dmg not be red? I added a new parameter, if an item may not me used during Monsterplay, just put Yes or anything else behind nopm. -- Tiberivs 09:42, 24 December 2010 (EST)
Make sure you update the preload and the documentation. ;) Sethladan 14:56, 24 December 2010 (EST)
Never mind, you did. /footinmouth Sethladan 14:58, 24 December 2010 (EST)
Some items have the text "Destroyed upon exiting the instance" in red text on their tooltip, such as Item:Nightshade Barrel and the water pouches in Forges of Khazad-dûm. How do we represent this? --Gaerlin 16:49, 4 January 2011 (EST)
Example:
I made a quick addition to the template that should accomplish this - add the line | temporary = y to any item in order to display that red text. See Nightshade Barrel for an example. Let me know if any problems come up. Sethladan 18:28, 4 January 2011 (EST)
Update for future reference: Skirmish tokens have this message, too, but in a different place on the tooltip (between "Consumed on Use" and "Cooldown." ...now I know why Starbursty added temporary in two places on the Boilerplate, whoops! Will make sure to add this functionality when the new item templates are rolled out. Sethladan 19:04, 5 April 2011 (EDT)
Reputation Items
Need to work on this section, unless I'm missing a functionality we already have in the template. "Reputation Items" display as such on in-game tooltips, but end up getting categorized in "Category:Reputation Items Items" when you enter them that way. Guess I need to add an exception to the code there...but not touching this stuff when I'm half asleep, heh. Note...to...self...zzz... Sethladan 04:01, 28 January 2011 (EST)
Barskills don't work
The Barskill, Barskill2, and Barskill3 options don't seem to work. Take a look at Item:Grant Jump Emote. It should say:
Barring Passive Skill: Emote: Jump
Instead it says:
Barring Passive Skill: [[]] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gaerlin (Contribs • User Talk).
Syntax for the latest revision looks slightly off to me (although I understand the intent), undoing that to see if it helps. Might take a few seconds/minutes for the undo to take effect; Tooltip is used on lots of pages, heheh. Sethladan 15:30, 17 February 2011 (EST)
For some reason completely unknown to me, moving the barskill lines further down in the template (to where they are for other items) fixes the problem. I'm going to have to look into this, because the location of a parameter when you call a template shouldn't matter at all. Sethladan 15:44, 17 February 2011 (EST)
Okay, last comment: Found the original problem. Barskill and barskill2 were being defined a second time several lines down, with blank values, which is why it worked when I moved barskill, barskill2, and barskill3 down near the end. Sethladan 15:51, 17 February 2011 (EST)
Okay, NOW the last comment. I broke the template a couple more times before just copying it out to my own sandbox and getting it right. Please let me know if any Item: pages look off; I'm hoping this integrates Eggo's change while maintaining the old functionality. Sorry for my idiocy! Sethladan 16:26, 17 February 2011 (EST)
Thanks for adding bquest to both of those! I'd like to eventually get rid of most boilerplates because I think there're too many pages that have to be updated whenever templates get revised, but that's another issue. Re: graphic, colour, nomp, stack, and other new/old parameters - I usually just go into the Template:Item Tooltip edit screen and do a "find" to see if the parameter is used. For example, colour does not appear at all in the template, but dye does. (You're right that dyes are mostly applied randomly on world-drop items and this could probably be set to "varies" or "random" even if "random" isn't actually a color.) Stack does, as well, and is used for the maximum stack size of items (100 for resource items, for example). Questname does nothing, nor does graphic, so I guess they were used in previous versions but have since been eliminated (we just upload an icon for every item instead of worrying about which ones share graphics). Nomp and temporary were only added recently (by Tiberivs and myself, respectively), so doing a wiki-wide search for those fields will only show up items whose pages have been updated since the /preload or boilerplate was changed to reflect the addition. Hope this all makes sense and I'm not stating things that are already blatantly obvious! Sethladan 12:33, 19 February 2011 (EST)
I've never used bquest yet, so I didn't noticed it was missing, but stack should be kept, to know how big your crafted stack can be. I've already removed questname, colour & graphic and added lotrostore, I'll add lotrostore soon to the Recipe template too, I've bought many missing chisel & riffler recipes from it yesterday, planning to continue on Metalsmith recipes. OK to remove dye, not really useful, removed in my home copy. :) I'm also collecting images of tooltips using lots of parameters like range, radius, maxtargets, noeffect, nomp, they are not showing in the right order currently... --Goingbald 13:17, 19 February 2011 (EST)
I can guess that dye was included so that the way we present the tooltip here on Lotro-Wiki matched the in-game pop-up as closely as possible - that at least seems to be the intent elsewhere. I definitely agree that it's not "useful," but can't help wondering if there are any items out there that DO have a certain dye applied to them (as opposed to the usual randomly dyed drop items. I might also suggest that we break the preload/boilerplate into sections, sort of how it is in the template. Can use HTML comments to do this, and it just might make creating and editing items slightly easier. For example, if we have a "Consumable Items Only" section, something like that. I can make an example if I ever get around to cleaning out my sandboxes... Sethladan 21:18, 19 February 2011 (EST)
Any idea if the div height:10 is needed for presentation?
There's a lot of cleaning up/improving that needs to happen with this template, so definitely thanks for pointing out the deprecated parameters - mental note to go through and clean out any references to those so we can pare down the code. Sethladan 02:01, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
I'll check about the div afterwards.
If we remove deprecated variables, we also might add something like "Deprecated template usage" to all tooltip pages which use deprecated variables. This is really easy :)
Re: deprecated variables, that's a good idea, possibly (for example) {{#if: {{{desc|{{{comment|}}} }}} | [[Category:Pages Using Outdated Parameters]] }}, which would just give us a quick category to look through and clean up references to those variables. My (less formal and perhaps less reliable) approach is to just do a search for that variable in the Item: namespace. Just did that for both "desc" and "comment" and it doesn't seem like they're actually used anywhere, so they might be safe to delete. But, as you said, it's a chaotic template (that's not even being used for its original purpose) so we might have to just work at it one bit at a time. :) Sethladan 19:41, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
I thought about something similiar like the line of code you proposed. Actually I'd prefer something like {{Stub/Parameters}} which says that some parameters of an template need to be updated and which adds it to a category. --EoD 23:08, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
While adding a stub would work, I would prefer a more "quiet" process, since unused parameters don't really affect the way the page looks. I see it more as a maintenance task that doesn't need to interfere with the experience of visitors who don't care too much about the behind-the-scenes aspects of improving the wiki. In short, weighing the benefits of an "announcement" that something needs to be fixed versus the distraction it would cause for the majority of users/editors. Sethladan 00:05, 18 March 2011 (EDT)
Some of you probably don't know yet, but Sethladan and me are working on a complete revamp of this template on Testwiki. The purpose is to have a proper template hierarchy in order to share as much code as possible. Help is of course always very appreciated! --EoD 13:21, 31 March 2011 (EDT)
Any change in using the template?
Hi, just wondering if there is something different now to do, or not, when editing items? Should still use all parameters? --Goingbald (talk) 21:22, 5 October 2011 (EDT)
Not right now, but hopefully there will be shortly. Template:New from the testwiki is going to become Template:Tooltip here, and then new item templates will be added that will only use the parameters needed for each type of item, eg. Armour, Weapons, etc. Could always leave the unused parameters out so there's less cleaning later, but it doesn't matter too much. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 05:08, 6 October 2011 (EDT)
And it came... --EoD (talk) 17:05, 6 October 2011 (EDT)
Item appearing on the left
So I made an item using the "| disambigpage = Item:Diseased Gland" but it moved to the left. I removed the Item: part "| disambigpage = Diseased Gland" and now it moved to the right. Is there a reason why it does this or is it just me? -- Starbursty (talk) 15:23, 12 October 2011 (EDT)
Because you created it at Diseased Gland instead of Item:Diseased Gland. No matter how long you've been here, it's the simple things that trip us up, heh. Sethladan 16:51, 12 October 2011 (EDT)
Seeing you just moved it, I guess you know why. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 16:53, 12 October 2011 (EDT)
I am terrible! Hahaha! -- Starbursty (talk) 11:54, 13 October 2011 (EDT)
Spacing
There should be a bit of room between the slot and the attributes on item tooltips as they show up on pages. I noticed this while working on some pocket items (e.g. Item:Tinderbox) while I had screenshots opened next to them. Anyone knowing how to fix this in the template is very free to do so! --Ravanel (talk) 09:51, 28 October 2011 (EDT)
Various Issues
I've noticed that several of the less-common parameters aren't jiving well with the tooltip appearance in-game. In trying to add Item:Westfold Tactics Signal I noticed the following:
The On Use text in the game is off-white, rather than light green
The On Use section is above "attrib" in the template even though it's lower in the tooltip (Not a big deal, but it was confusing to edit)
The item has an "Effects applied to the Fellowship" section that doesn't have a parameter, although I could add it using line breaks and color tags in the On Use section
The skill requirement line should show up underneath the level and class requirements
The current item page contains the vital information, but it looks pretty different from the game's version. I don't do much with Items, so I haven't tried to use these parameters before. Does anyone know if the same issues are true for other objects that can be used or have special requirements? -- Elinnea (talk) 20:17, 20 November 2011 (EST)
Hacked these fixes together quickly this afternoon. Not perfect, but Elin seems to be happy with them. If any parameters are appearing in the wrong order when they were previously fine, feel free to blame me. Note that I had extra braces in my first attempt, so you might see some wonky-looking items until everything's fully updated (about 8660 jobs on the queue as I type this). Sethladan 21:51, 21 November 2011 (EST)
Thank you for your work. I'll keep an eye out for any wonky-looking item fallout. *cough*UpdateTheBoilerplate*cough* -- Elinnea (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2011 (EST)
If the "messed up" look was that all the additional text on the page got "eaten up" into the template, that was my fault - see above - but it should be fixed now. Had too many closing braces. The page you mentioned looks fine to me otherwise, unless I'm missing something. Thanks for keeping me honest! ;) Sethladan 21:51, 21 November 2011 (EST)
Yes, I think that was the problem. It looks fine to me now. RingTailCat (talk) 22:42, 21 November 2011 (EST)
Categorization by race
I have added automatic categorization by race.
The documentation suggests that the race field can contain multiple values, however the code I wrote will not handle more than one value. It could probably be more efficient if it lower cased the value before using it in the switch.
I would also like to have the value translated where the race value is inserted in the text as a link. Right now, the template uses the race value directly as a link. I would like to have the entered value translated for some values. Specifically,
with the remaining 3 races inserted without translation.
In addition, there is the multiple race issue to contend with. Not just the mechanics of multiple values, but establishing a protocol for entering the multiple values. An easier approach would be to do something like class,class2,class3. It would be nice to know how many or what percentage of items exist with the race non-blank. Perhaps we will be able to see that from the results of the automatic categorization.
RingTailCat (talk) 18:27, 26 November 2011 (EST)
Set Information
I tried with no success to have a section Set Information being added automatically, how to avoid having this section being shown by the Reward template? --Goingbald (talk) 13:57, 11 December 2011 (EST)
Please limit edits to this template
Please limit edits to this template. We should probably consider splitting this template in the near future if possible. --Lotroadmin (talk) 01:31, 12 December 2011 (EST)
It is planned to split it up and some work as started on it, but I don't think anyone has had time to see it through at the moment. Until then its probably better to practice on test-wiki as there are far fewer pages linking to that one so it will update much faster and put less strain on the wiki.Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 04:56, 12 December 2011 (EST)
class3 category
The class3 parameter is not getting categorized. See: Item:Radiant Valor which does not get added to the Category:Minstrel Items as it should. RingTailCat (talk) 10:42, 15 December 2011 (EST)
class3 seems to have been added to the description, but never actually added to the template. Should be fixed now. Amphoras (talkTalk to me!) 13:06, 15 December 2011 (EST)
Pattern: <profession>
Hmm, this is the first time I have seen the line "Pattern: Metalsmith" between "Bind on Equip" and "Heavy Shield" in an item. (Reference item: Wyrmshúd) -- Starbursty (talk) 08:54, 17 December 2011 (EST)
Do you still have the screenshot? RingTailCat (talk) 09:03, 17 December 2011 (EST)
No, I just deleted the screenie. The lines were "Bind on Equip" then "Dye: Grey" then a white "Pattern: Metalsmith" then "Heavy Shield". Maybe it will show up again in another item. -- Starbursty (talk) 09:42, 17 December 2011 (EST)
Effects applied on fellowship
In addition to the one above, here's another missing set of lines (with screenie this time!)
The new Isengard cluster armor items require a deed to be completed before they can be equipped (an example of which is attached below). While there's a line in the template for requiring a quest, there isn't one for requiring a deed just yet. JnK (talk) 07:54, 4 January 2012 (EST)
When added, need to update armour pieces of the Armour of the Glírberion set and maybe more items unknown to me. --Goingbald (talk) 23:53, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
Added this today, finally! Sethladan 11:48, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
Updated as many of the Isengard set items as I could find. I forgot how gross (and groß) this template is, and the 20,000 jobs still pending stand as a reminder how badly we need to break it up, heh. Hopefully I'll have more time for template playing this summer, sigh... Sethladan 12:59, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
Adding Faction to Category
I would like to add the following to this template within reasonable time.
Since we are asked to not edit this template too frequently (it causes massive background jobs that runs for many many hours) I suggest we get together about more minor or larger tweaks we want to see. Are there any? -- Zimoon 13:00, 6 March 2012 (EST)
No response in 4 days equals no objections nor further wishes for edits, I am going to add the suggestion in a few minutes. Zimoon 06:46, 10 March 2012 (EST)
Thoughts about Icons
Recently I have a few times run into items, or rather their icons, and found that nothing links to the icon file. I guess that is since we do not specify the complete name of the icon but omit the file/media type. In my humble opinion this is less useful when we want to track down those items that are using certain icons, for one reason or another. One example is when we want to replace icons with generic/shared versions. Or am I just silly and have not figured our how to do this? If not, then I suggest we go back and ensure all pages are possible to find via the "File usage" section that images have. -- Zimoon 09:22, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
Can you give any specific examples where this occurs. I'm not sure if we will be able to see the same behavior when we get around to visiting them, but perhaps we can glean more information about the circumstances underwhich the odd behaviour occurs.
I believe there is a timing issue with the "What links here" tool, where that linkage information is collect asynchronously to edits. From what I understand, a periodic script collects the linkage information. Touching a page, not just visiting, but editing and saving, even if there are no changes, updates the links from the page immediately. Otherwise, waiting 24 hours may show different results. I suspect that this odd behavior only occurs for a "File:" or "Image:" or "Media:" namespace page, and not for the more regular text pages.
In the meantime, I would urge caution when trying to consolidate icons to a generic version. Perhaps that process should be driven by the results of the off-line duplicate file detector utility.
There is some template code which looks for the presence of the target icon file, and substitutes a generic "?" icon. (It has logic something like: if icon exists, use it, else use missing icon icon.) If a page that links to a missing icon gets cached, the links from the page to the icon may not, or may not immediately, get updated when the real icon gets created. That suggests to me that pages in Category:Items missing an icon may encounter the problem you describe.
Goblin-tooth-icon versus Item:Goblin-tooth. I will look at that discussion. -- Zimoon 13:11, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
And you may be, or rather are, right about the synch thing. Opening the page and saving without edit and the link is now visible over at the dentist's side. Hmm, sorry for the noise. Zimoon 13:13, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
This is not a trivial problem. Everyone of us that has the rights to delete a File: page needs to be aware of this issue.
When I was investigating, a few days ago, every time I tried to link to an example of the problem, the problem went away. As soon as I saved the talk page that linked to the icon file, the what links here got updated and showed the previously missing link.
BTW, as a general rule, I do not use generic itemsicons for quest item icons. If the icon is in Category:Quest Item Icons, I do not replace it with a generic icon. I force them to be duplicates if necessary. There are so many other places where using generic icons provides big benefits, that it is not necessary to use generic icons where there are only a handful of duplicates. In general, I only try to use generic icons for items that can be equipped. I try to never save a new item without having the correct icon displayed when I "Show preview". RingTailCat (talk) 14:30, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
I always check the 'What Links Here' for a file as well as the File Usage section, and I've often found that pages will show up in the former even when they're not in the latter. Then when I go back a day or two later, the File Usage has updated and it shows the correct pages. Or, as was said, forcing the item page to update will also force the file to recognize it. -- Elinnea (talk) 17:58, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
Scrollable Box, Why?
I noticed just not when hovering over Item:Sealed Device of Accuracy that the hover-over box chops away content from the relic-attributes. And it is impossible to scroll that box when hovering. Thus little or much info is not visible.
I believe the hovering support we have is one of the best things with our Wiki, it is great to not have to follow a link just to realize, after some seconds page-loading, that it was not for me. The scroll-box I mentioned above lessens the value of our gem a lot. Why was it added and does that reason outweigh loss of hover-ability? Perhaps it was just deemed fancy at the time, and hovering was added afterwards? ;) -- Zimoon 18:04, 4 April 2012 (EDT)
I think the box for the relic stats needs to be a bit deeper. The Sealed Device of Whatever may be the first place we have seen 3 line attributes for the relic. RingTailCat (talk) 18:09, 4 April 2012 (EDT)
I've tweaked that part so no more scrolling should ever be displayed now, it auto-expands as you add more lines in relic-attrib. :) --Goingbald (talk) 02:15, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
Thanks a bunch. I just thought there was a real good reason :) -- Zimoon 06:58, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
It looks like you might be aware of this, Goingbald, but item tooltips are not displaying correctly in IE, at least for me. There seems to be a superfluous blank line that is displaying above the "Worth" (value) line. Also seems to be above the flavor text line(s). For instance, on Item:Westfold Footsoldier Herald Armaments, the blank line appears between the "Requires:Armament Use" line and the '"When equipped..."' line. Uzekh (talk) 15:14, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
I just examined the tooltip that shows for the above link in Firefox 11.0, IE 9.0, and Chrome 18.0, and all display the expected single blank line above and below the flavour text. RingTailCat (talk) 15:25, 5 April 2012 (EDT)
I think the spacing is OK, except the one in front of the item's name. --Goingbald (talk) 00:52, 6 April 2012 (EDT)
Could it be the added by Template:Tooltip right after the icon? The generated code contains and as far as I can see it is only Tooltip that could have added them. I guess we want them for many use cases (such as in rewards), but in this case it seems to break havoc. Is it an issue with which font-size is active at that particular context? -- Zimoon 04:59, 6 April 2012 (EDT)
The computer I'm on at the moment has IE 7.0, which of course is used by so few people at this point that the issue might not even be worth addressing. There's still an extra blank line on every item tooltip for me (in addition to the single character space you noted at the beginning of the item name). See my screen below. Uzekh (talk) 18:53, 6 April 2012 (EDT)
Have you sent Microsoft a bug report yet? Just kidding. There are so many very good reasons for upgrading to a later version, it's hard to imagine any person or business wanting to stay on that version. I've worked in a few shops where they were locked in with an old version due to corporate policy or mission critical applications, but generally we were not supposed to use those machines for personal browsing.
All that aside, is this extra blank line showing up on all tooltips, or is it tied to the presence of a skill requirement (above) or flavour text (below)? That could help in figuring out where the extra line comes from. RingTailCat (talk) 14:08, 14 April 2012 (EDT)
Apparently, every application that my employer uses has been fine-tuned for IE 7, so despite it being extremely outdated, they are reticent to upgrade. There's quite a bit of downtime at my job, so thankfully, my employer's pretty lax about personal browsing.
Anyway, the extra blank line shows up on all tooltips, regardless of which lines have data in them. For instance: Uzekh (talk) 17:23, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
No change; double blank line still present on all tooltips. Uzekh (talk) 10:42, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
I suspect there is an empty line that IE7 displays at full height which more modern browsers collapse to no or minimal height. There is another level of template below this one. Perhaps the problem is there. In any case, I'm not a proponent of adding browser dependent code, let alone browser version dependent code. I hope you don't mind too much, but I'd like to leave this problem for someone else. RingTailCat (talk) 11:19, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
Although I'm a bit late, isn't the problem here that IE expands DIVs too much? Like the <div style="height:10px"> </div>? The article I linked suggest to change/add a style parameter "line-height". --EoD (talk) 14:36, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
I have the same problem here with that empty space, but on FF 15 AND Chrome. So I don't think it is something specific to IE.
--Gwenwyfar (talk) 19:56, 6 October 2012 (EDT)
Target parameter needed
I think the template needs a new parameter to cover the fact that some weapons have target effects, such as "Target: You have a small chance of lowering your target's Armour.", as can bee seen e.g. in Item:Arth-pastun. The current way to do this appears to be to add {{Color|khaki|Target: You have a small chance of lowering your target's Armour.}} to the end of attrib, but I find it messy and user-unfriendly.
As far as I've noticed, the text is not arbitrary but rather there is a handful of texts related to the respective effects, so the allowed values of the parameter would be Armour, Attack Speed etc. and the template would fill in the text. Silver hr (talk) 12:16, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
I've thought about this from time to time (usually whenever I'm considering working on the separate templates for item types that have yet to be implemented...) and wondered if we could just add that text automatically based on the weapon type. All clubs have the same effect, all swords have the to-hit ("Wield") bonus, and so on, right? Or at least they should, and any inconsistency is on Turbine's part insofar as displaying it in different colors and different places at times. Sethladan 12:41, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
If anybody implements this, remember the topmost section of this page ;) -- Zimoon 15:47, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
It seems you're quite right, good catch. I guess I had unconsciously assumed that only crafted weapons have this. Anyway, I have conducted a survey of most crafted weapons, many quest reward weapons and whatever I could find on the AH and I've come to the following conclusion.
Non variable text:
Clubs and Great Clubs
Below attributes:
(brown)Target: You have a small chance of slowing your target's Attack Speed.
Hammers and Great Hammers
Below attributes:
(brown)Target: You have a small chance of lowering your target's ability to Evade.
Spears
Below attributes:
(brown)Spear-pierce:
(green)1% chance to apply
(green)X (damage type of the spear) Damage every 5 seconds for 15 seconds.
needs a parameter for X, other numbers are constant from what I've seen
Axes and Great Axes
Below attributes:
(brown)Target: You have a small chance of lowering your target's Armour.
Daggers
Below extra mob type damage:
(green)Wield: 1% Auto-attack Critical Hit Chance
Halberds
Below extra mob type damage if non-legendary, attributes if legendary:
(brown)Wield: Your attacks generate greater threat.
Maces
Below attributes:
(brown)Target: You have a small chance of slowing your target's Movement Speed.
Swords
Below extra mob type damage:
(brown)Wield: Your Hit-chance is slightly increased.
Great Swords
Below extra mob type damage if non-legendary, attributes if legendary:
(brown)Wield: Your Hit-chance is slightly increased.
Bows
Below extra mob type damage:
(brown)Wield: +1% Critical Hit Chance to ranged auto-attacks.
Crossbows
Below extra mob type damage:
(brown)Wield: Your Ranged auto-attacks are 5% tougher to Block.
Optional effects, from what I've seen they may come in any combination and they are positioned below the attributes (or one of the upper effects if present):
(brown)Target: Chance of increasing your target's susceptibility to (damage type of weapon, except see below)-type damage.
(green)(1H/ranged 5, 2H/staff 10)% chance to apply
Rune stones can have this too, but the damage type of the effect doesn't have to be the same as the damage type of the weapon, and their chance is 10%.
I've seen a crossbow that has both Fire and Light susceptibility so we'll need to accommodate two susceptibility effects.
The text for Ancient Dwarf-make damage is just Ancient Dwarf, so it would read "Ancient Dwarf-type damage", not "Ancient Dwarf-make-type damage".
(brown)Weaken: Opponent's power is transferred to you some of the time.
(green)5% chance to apply
(green)Target is drained of X Power
(green)Attacker gains X Power
needs a parameter for X
(brown)Demoralize: Opponent's morale is transferred to you some of the time.
(green)5% chance to apply
(green)Target is drained of X Morale
(green)Attacker gains X Morale
needs a parameter for X
(brown)On Hit: Chance of lowering your target's Armour.
(green)15% chance to apply
(brown)Wounding:
(green)(1H/ranged 3, 2H/staff/runestone 6)% chance to apply
(green)X Common Damage every 5 seconds for 15 seconds.
damage type is always Common
Although I've sampled a lot of weapons, there might be something I've missed so corrections are welcome.
That's some hardcore research! I was thinking in terms only of your "non variable" effects, which are predictable based on the weapon type. For the optional effects, I suspect we're going to see more of those as Turbine comes up with ways to make equipment more interesting and varied. Do you think these optional effects occur frequently enough to justify a whole new block of code for them (as opposed to the current method of Template:Color)? Using Color is certainly not the most attractive way to enter item info, but it's probably more manageable than any combination of parameters we could come up with. Definitely open to other ideas, though, and can get behind at least working in the weapon-type text somehow. Sethladan 23:23, 16 June 2012 (EDT)
IIRC, the spear target effects are different, when the spear is wielded by a warden vs any other class. RingTailCat (talk) 23:41, 16 June 2012 (EDT)
Thanks. Yes well, the initial idea was the non-variable stuff but as I went through weapons I noticed the optional ones as well. Even though they don't appear on crafted weapons (except a westfold crossbow; I don't have many westfold recipes so there could be more), they do crop up on drops and rewards often enough that we should include them, I think. I know it's work getting stuff into the template, but ultimately it makes contributors' jobs easier so I'm for it.
It's not even that many parameters. Susceptibility would only take damage type; weaken, demoralize and wounding would take a number, on hit would be yes/no; chance to apply can be inferred. That's 6 parameters for the optional effects (counting susceptibility twice), and one for spear-pierce.
RTC, that's interesting, can you give an example? Also, do you mean spears for the warden class specifically, or a regular spear whose tooltip changes when a warden wields it?
I think I see what is happening with spears. At level 15 a Warden can purchase a passive skill Expert Spear Training, which gives "+2% Spear Damage" and "Damage from intrinsic spear bleeds is multiplied by 5". That means that the target parameter text for a spear that the Warden with that skill sees is different from what he sees below level 15 or without that skill, and from what all other classes see.
This is the usual situation with equipment stats and prices: the observer's vendor discounts, buffs, passive and active skills, and traits all modify the information displayed in the tooltip. With travel prices, we have tried to show the pre-discount prices. For item stats, it becomes more complex, expensive, and perhaps even impossible, to compensate for the effects of those skills and traits. It reminds me of the difficulties with the KoLM ratings. So much is relative to the observer. Another can of worms opened!
Ah, I see. I suppose it could perhaps be solved by adding some kind of Javascript toggle on spears to switch views between warden with skill and warden without skill/non warden? In any case, the problem seems fairly complex, best to get the basic stuff down first. Silver hr (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2012 (EDT)
Bonus damage
From what I've seen, the bonus damage bit is always "+X Damage to (mob type)" so I propose that the template takes as parameters only the number and the mob type and fills in the rest of the text. It's a minor thing, yeah, but I'm a perfectionist :)
If this were implemented, there would need to be a global search and replace to convert the existing items, and I also noticed that some have the whole text in only one of the two parameters, so that would need to be considered in the conversion.
Either I fail to understand how to suppress an icon for items, which is highly possible. Or it is not possible to suppress an icon. In the latter case I would like to add that to the wish-list. But why?
I find it convenient to use this template (but I might do it wrong) for quest-items such as Item:Gauradan Basket. That way there is a tooltip available at the quest page, though the "item" is quite volatile in the sense it is only active in the world during the quest, after that it is still there (often at least) but deactivated.
Unless I am doing something wrong, the wanted feature would not indent the item name. Right now I have use Black.png but... :P ... Perhaps having a special "icon-name" such as "empty-icon" which is specially handled? I would prefer that over yet another parameter to this overloaded template. -- Zimoon 17:42, 8 September 2012 (EDT)
What you are talking about are landscape objects. Often, you interact with them to start a quest, or like a resource node, collect an inventory or quest log item from them. Usually, I put a snapshot of them on the collected item page, and if necessary, and some verbiage to explain them.
This class of object might benefit from have its own template. It should pop up a tooltip on hover, but would only require filling in a few of the parameters used by an item. You might be able to provide one or more locations, perhaps with map coordinates. I suppose it would be a combination of the item template and the location templates. IIRC, there was a passing reference to a previous (i.e., several years old) discussion about making such a template, but I have never heard that it was finished.
Template:Object was started way back when by yours truly, but I never got anywhere with it. I was hoping to do the same thing you guys are talking about - put something together for those interact-able glowy landscape things for quests and deeds (and also perhaps resource nodes?). Barring that being done, I don't think there's any standard procedure yet for entering that sort of item/object - resources still use an old item template (see e.g. Rowan Branches). Sethladan 18:53, 8 September 2012 (EDT)
Thanks, I do no what you did but it works. Yesterday I added another such "landscape object" and without icon I faced the ?-mark, same as using -icon. Or I did something wrong, I do not remember :(
Pass in the rest, too tired ;)
--Zimoon 20:23, 8 September 2012 (EDT)
Unique
It seems we do something wrong with "Unique". It is right-aligned OK but there should be a line-break too, so the following text continues at a line of its own. At least most items where I have seen "Unique" should have had it in a unique--har-har--line of its own. Before anybody fixes this, don't forget the Next Edit section. -- Zimoon 09:32, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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Uzekh (talk) 18:53, 6 April 2012 (EDT)
