Template talk:Infobox Quests
Reflecting pools
I propose that we add a new optional parameter, reflecting-pool, indicating which reflecting pool the instance is available at (if any).
- This parameter would add the quest into an "Instances at the <reflecting pool> Reflecting Pool" category.
- The Reflecting Pool page would not have to be maintained separately; we would just use
<categorytree ...>to display the list of instances at each reflecting pool.
—Thurallor (talk) 18:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
Obsolete Quests
Today obsolete quests are still thrown into a bunch of categories. Would it be possible to add an obsolete parameter to the template? And put the category magic inside a conditional block that is not run when such a parameter is set?
I believe that is how some other templates are handling obsolete, but I don'y have a good example straight off. Any thoughts? — Zimoon 15:30, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
- In Discord I was told that nocat = yes would do the trick. Almost. It wouldn't handle any manually added category links, so there will be some extra work to clean out such things when adding an Obsolete template. I think this means "case closed". — Zimoon 00:45, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Extend this template
I would like to extend "Infobox Quests" with one new parameter, sitting next to the "startinglocation" parameter. Its job would be to add the quest to a location category.
Background: Already 7+ years ago we discussed having "startinglocation" to automagically add quests to a category, for example to Category:Archet Quests. However, we concluded that would not work in 100% of the cases. That parameter can be multiple locations, and other things that would create a red link. Instead we continued to manually add pages to location categories such as for Archet and other places.
Since this involves manual work, and there is nothing goading editors to do that, that would not happen. At least not a lot. The result is, when updating location pages we have to trace down quests that pertain to each location. With a category for the location it would just be a matter of transcluding a list of quests from the category.
I am thinking (but haven't completed my thoughts yet) of a parameter such as "starting-loc-cat". (In due time we make it mandatory but we cannot do that from start.) Editors set it to a fitting location/settlement/area which will add the quest to [[Category:<LOC> Quests]], that either exists already or the editors creates one. A parameter would goad editors to use it.
Also, if this parameter is set and "startinglocation" is left empty, the value of "starting-loc-cat" will be used. Meaning, for all normal use cases editors need to set only "starting-loc-cat". And only when that won't work they must set "startinglocation". Or in the case they don't like to create a category for that single quest given at that landmark.
So, initially we could let a bot walk over a few existing categories at a time and add "starting-loc-cat = VALUE" where VALUE is taken from startinglocation. Manually walk through the edits and fix those that failed. I am interested in that job, of course, but if others are interested there are plenty of regions.
Another great thing with this is if a quest becomes obsolete the location category goes away by itself. But sadly not from the lists that are transcluded from CAT pages. Until we use a database-driven model we cannot both eat the cake and have it :-(
Thoughts and ideas? — Zimoon 16:38, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- Adding an example:
- If you look at e.g. https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php?title=Quest:Bear-hunter&action=edit you will see it has a manually added [[Category:Othrikar Quests]] at the bottom. And if you look at Category:Othrikar Quests you see a list of quests which is transcluded onto Othrikar. This is what I want to address and automate. — Zimoon 16:51, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Tasks
It seems the tasks have been at some point renamed in-game to '<specifier> Task: <task item>'. Also all tasks should have 'questgroup=task'. I propose to remove the '| Task = [[Category:Tasks|{{realpagename}}]]' as it than puts the the page into the Category:Tasks but it is already in Category:Task Quest because of the questgroup. Seems to me like duplicate categorization. --Drono (talk) 11:27, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- As noone opposed, i went trough with the change. --Drono (talk) 08:26, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- Great work! — Zimoon 15:00, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Skirmish Quest Levels
All Skirmish quests have a minimum level as well as {{Level Cap}} but players may set any level between them. In LotroCompanion I notice that such quests have level = Skirmish Level, which basically means one must know the Skirmish' minimum level by other means.
At Lotro-Wiki we do not have a good way to tell minimum level and the quest is scale-able to a certain level, usually level-cap I guess. Time and again it bugs me that we do not have a good way to express "Skirmish Level". We can use "Scaling" or "..." but that does not express anything for Skirmishes' lower level.
I do not know if this topic has been discussed already but I did not see it on this Talk page. Is this something we plan to do anything about? Somehow display quests as being scaling between a min and a max levels? (Maybe max level is not needed if it is always level-cap.) — Zimoon 17:48, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just some notes for info. Some quests, very few maybe, seem to have an upper limit to availability as well. If I remember correctly from LotroCompanion a trajectory quest to Trestlebridge has it. Meaning a few quests are available just within a narrow level range.
- Other than that I have just seen "Skirmish Level" and "Character Level" in LC, so far. Plus normal level, ofc.
- Sadly, some editor(s) have added the level-cap template to some quest pages that are not "character level". Meaning in-game those quests have static levels but will incorrectly bump up next time level cap is changed. But that is another story entirely. — Zimoon 18:05, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Reflecting Pool fails for Chronicle of Events
Instance replays provided by Chronicle of Events in Rivendell cannot use the reflecting-pool parameter. This template expects a text-string that it can linkify and tag for a category. I find that a bit troublesome as that field is supposed to be used for quests that can be replayed repeatedly and I wonder if there are more editors that think the same.
While at this talk-page, the "Reflecting Pool" text that is displayed by this template is too long to fit into just one row but breaks into two rows. I find that a minor flaw on an otherwise good looking info-box. If we somehow decide to fix the issue with "Chronicle of Events", maybe it would be possible to change the text at the same time. I guess we need to do that anyway if we like to support CoE, right, as CoE is not a Reflection Pool even if it mimics its features.
Kindly — Zimoon 15:29, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Region heading
I would like to suggest renaming the Region heading in the Quest Box template to something that doesn't have a specific meaning on the Wiki. See The Brigands of the Wold for an example of many. Under Start Region it says The Wold which is incorrect, at least to how the Wiki is generally structured, The Wold is a capital-A Area, not a Region. I propose changing Region to something more generic relative to the Wiki, such as:
- Domain
- Locale
- Place
- Realm
- Site
Territory(removed as it has reserved use in the game files)- Zone
Very open to suggestions, Ayapo (talk) 19:23, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- My first thought would be It's meant to be Region so if the information provided is not a region THAT information needs to be corrected not the template information as that is what was intended. I'm not as familiar with the labels in the Quest / Deed Logs as they often conflict with the actual Locations (maps/) section of the wiki (because SSG HATES to be consistent. See: User:Rogue4ever/Subregion for reference.
- Second thought after looking I can see why people put The Wold in the "region" parameter becausse it has it's own map and to me (I never did impliment it and it got lost - BUT I classify those "areas" as Sub-regions) because that was after SSG took over their terrible changes in how the maps layer. It is an Area but it's also it's own Region that has it's own Areas. :P. A WHOLE DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.
- And since the template asks for coords it's customary to put whatever "map" those coords belong to. This being said, I'm not the one who works on (or kept up with when it was created) the quest template and how it's organized by categories and all so hopefully other's will chime in. Perhaps mention to check here in discord as well (for those who are on discord more than here). I was directed by someone who saw this post. Rogue4ever (talk) 23:23, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- RE rogue, it was discussed on discord first.
- Out of the proposed names i like most Zone, or Location. Googled what is the difference between location and locale, and i think Location would be better name. --Drono (talk) 08:59, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Following up a conversation with Rogue in Discord, there are three locational systems used in the game, none of which mesh with each other:
- the Map system (parchment maps placed arbitrarily over coordinates, not useful structurally but very useful visually in game)
- the LRA system (Land > Region > Area, very well structured and consistent, it reduces and fits everything in the game on a 0.8° grid)
- the "Location" system (Landmarks, POIs, or Settlements, yet another method of representing position, a circle defined by its center and a radius)
- since all three have their uses, it would be preferred to show all three in the Quest Infobox in the following format (using Payment in Full as an example and starting with the quest giver):
- Starts with: Adso Haybank
- Location: Adso's Camp (indicates Landmark/POI/Settlement)
- LRA: Eriador > Bree-land > Southern Bree-fields (L may be omitted, it seems plainly obvious)
- Map: Bree-land (the parchment map, doesn't follow the LRA system with any consistency, it's best to be added as its own field)
- Map Coords: 29.1S, 56.8W (Rogue suggested renaming "Map Ref" to "Map Coords" for better comprehension)
- The idea is to not sacrifice any of the three positional systems, nor combine them (as they each represent a location in a different way).
- Please vote or add any thoughts/comments regarding this structure.
- Alternately discuss here: https://discord.com/channels/403441002091642884/1187822481617190962.
- Ayapo (talk) 19:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
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