Talk:Legendary Items (old)

I just wanted to make a page for legendary items since we don't have one. I may come back and expand it later. Kenji03 13:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm seeing slightly different IXP values in-game

Leveling some LIs using this chart, I've found the live game is off by several hundred IXP from this chart at level 32, at least. The chart shows 642,432 IXP to reach level 33 but my level 32 LI shows 527,828 IXP for 33.

It's accurate at several values lower down (I can't check them all). Anyone know if there's something I'm doing wrong or did they actually change this? I can start making note of all the changed breakpoints, if need be.

In fact, it's the section above the table that would need confirmation maybe, then replace or add columns with values pre-Mirkwood and post-Mirkwood expansion values? --Goingbald 00:25, 18 September 2010 (EDT)

Wait, I'm an idiot. It says LIs need different amounts past 30 based on their age but then the chart only lists one set of values and doesn't say what age they're for. That's probably what's wrong. The chart needs to be split into 3 columns past 30. I'll try to figure that out. --Polynices 13:47, 19 September 2010 (EDT)

Ok, just fixed the table for third and second age LIs. I'll try adding a fourth column for first ages later. Someone better at wiki columns can maybe make a full width column header instead of sneaking "Second Age LIs" into the middle box like I did. I double checked my addition but please correct any error. --Polynices 14:28, 19 September 2010 (EDT)

I added a First Age LI column. Now we need some numbers on how much 7 or 8 LIs equipped affects IXP distribution per LI. I haven't unlocked slots 7 and 8 yet. --KermitZ06 09:31, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

I just sunk 600 TP in doing that and put the result on the page. I have to admit, i am a bit disappointed. --NonCircular 18:31, 14 April 2011 (CET)

Was wondering about that myself - thanks for the info, NonCircular! Sethladan 13:00, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

LIs template

I would love to see a LI template to display the LI a player character uses ingame. That should be a nice template project with all the stats / options thru the relics and levels :D --Marble 13:01, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

Be my guest. :D Sethladan 14:44, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

can i book a course on how to make templates? :D --Marble 16:27, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

I keep meaning to write a starter guide of sorts for our wiki editors, but until that happens, take a look at this write-up; it's where I got started. The rest is just looking things up in Mediawiki documentation and trial and error. :) Sethladan 16:52, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

Dev Diaries for LIs

While hunting for which Legacies were group A and which were Group B I noticed that there were many pages missing for LIs.... (like all the ones I needed) ... so I tacked the URLs for the Dev Diaries relating to LIs on to the Category page Category talk:Legacies

I also tried converting that talk page to Liquid Threads.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:53, 20 December 2011 (EST)

Generic LI

Okay, I'm trying to update the LI pages a bit, and I've run into something I'm not really sure I should do, though I'd like to.

I think it would be beneficial to have a basic item page for each LI - sort of like skill pages, where the information that is level-specific is replaced with an ellipses, but the general information is there. But I haven't seen anything like this for any other item - is it something we try to avoid? I kind of feel like it would be a good thing to have a generic LI we can link back to, one of each type.

I'd probably want a naming convention like Minstrel's Sword of the Third Age (Generic), because we already have items that have no level or parenthetical part of the name. (These are mostly the quest rewards for the epic, as they don't have a level). Alternatively, if possible, we could change the quest rewards to (Quest Reward) or something, which would make more sense in my mind. I suppose I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, though.

Thoughts, opinions, glaringly obvious things I'm missing? Thanks!

Kadi (talk) 04:38, 11 January 2012 (EST)

I think that sounds like a good idea. I've always thought that e.g. "Minstrel's Sword of the Third Age (Level 51)" etc was a complete waste of time anyway, because:

1. no visitor would go look for an item with that name
2. info on such pages (mostly only the DPS difference, really) could be included in a generic page, presenting a much clearer overview

but that's just me. :P

--Ravanel (talk) 10:01, 11 January 2012 (EST)

Legendary Items (Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons and Class Items) prior to being identified at a Forge Master are generic by level. After being identified at the Forge Master (and even before being bound), they are server wide unique items that inherit characteristics from the unidentified items.

The characteristics of the item that result from legacies currently appear on the legacy pages, e.g. Hunter Legendary Legacies. This is where the number tables can be found for each type of item by level and rank for the different legacies available.

For third age items - Melee and Ranged weapons currently have three different icons depending on level. Some no-level items have their own icons. Levels 51-65 have one, and levels 66-75 have another. Class items seem to have the same icon for levels 51-75. Rune stones also have different icons depending on their affinity Fire/Frost/Lightning.

Second and First age items, and crafted items are a little less diverse in level and icons.

One thing that I believe it is very important to remember is that we are reporting what we discover. We absolutely do not know the rules that Turbine currently uses, or in the future may use, to characterize the items in their game. Nor can we reliably guess at or rely on rumours of how statistics are calculated in-game (formulae, tables, or something else). These things are subject to change for reasons beyond our understanding. When we chose to make generic items, we run the risk of loosing track of underlying observations on which the generic is based. I know that some L.I.s have incorrect icons today, because they used a shared icon that got changed from the level 51-65 icon into the level 66-75 icon. When we find a different icon, it is often very difficult to determine if that single item's icon changed or if the generic icon used by a group of items has changed. I think we need to report what we see, even though that may not be the most efficient way to do it. RingTailCat (talk) 10:45, 11 January 2012 (EST)

I'm not looking to get rid of the specific item level pages - though I do plan on going through and cleaning them up, because we should have one per level, 51-75, for each item, if we're going to do it this way, and we should make sure they're named consistently. But I still think one generic LI page would be handy, for linking to and organizing. It could have on that page all the different icons for that type of LI, a link to the legacy page, a copy of the DPS chart, and possibly a link to each of the LI's by level. I'm again comparing this to skills - we have one page that has all the generic info at the top, then more specific info below it.

If I'm a new user, coming in and looking for information about LI's, I don't want to have to look at a list of 26 items with the same name as what I'm looking for, uncertain which one will have the information I need.

On a side note, we don't have a category for LI's. Should we have one? Especially since we're going to have 25-26 items per LI. Holy cow, I just did the math, that's 1700 LI's, just for drops of 3rd ages - 2nd ages add another 680 for drops, plus another 18 for the quests, plus another 544 for crafted. That's a total of 2942 pages of LI's, and doesn't include anything bartered. I think we're going to have a glut of information. Is this really useful for an end user? Kadi (talk) 11:48, 11 January 2012 (EST)

Edit: This is what I'm kind of thinking of: User:Kadi/Sandbox. It's messed up because there's no disambig, but you can kinda see what I'm going for. Kadi (talk) 13:56, 11 January 2012 (EST)

Fun :) This topic is wandering all over the place (i.e. where people are talking about it!), almost as much as trying to follow the links on the other discussion about legacies.

1- Kadi, I like your idea of an index -- much like the Crafting Index pages, Tailor Recipe Index for example, and with a top level index for each class. I don't believe there are any non-class specific (i.e. restricted) LIs. And I would definitely organize things by class simply because the player is going to be looking for information about his or her item, not about some random item they picked up.

2- And a Navigation bar for each page like: {{Tailor Recipe Index}}

3- Similarly, there needs to be a Legendary Items Navigation Bar!

4- And Lo and behold, we do have a Category for LIs... Category:Legendary Items -- I just found it myself -- yet another reason we need the Nav bar. I don't know why that concept was abandoned somewhere along the way.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk)

Well, the categories for individual classes was added by me a few days after I wrote the above comment.  ;) A navigation bar would be useful, you're right. I'll add it to the looooong list of things I'm planning on doing for LI's, lol. Right now I'm trying to figure out how I'd go about making an LI template, to make LI's a lot easier to add. Kadi (talk) 19:06, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Hmmm one wonders if this is a bug.

I was just trying to use a scroll of Lesser Renewal with one of my RKs.

The issue is -- which "Level" are we talking about?

On this toon, I have 4 LIs equipped -- all are (what I thought) were "Item Level" 60, and that was the "level" which I thought the Scroll referred to.

Since I can never remember if "up to Level 60" means "up to "Item Level" or "Minimum level (i.e. the level needed to equip)," I tried it, expecting to be told I had no Items it could be applied to.

Lo and behold -- "up to" refers to "Minimum Level!" -- see screen shot.

So:

• Did something change?
• Is all the documentation wrong?
• Is this a bug?
• Or is this even worse -- the term "level" has multiple meanings, depending on context?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:03, 19 January 2012 (EST)

From what I understand from my own experience, the Item:Scroll of Lesser Renewal will work on items which have a minimum character level of 60 or less. Your scroll should only work for your "Stone Six" item. For items with a minimum character level of 61 or higher, you need an Item:Scroll of Renewal. (There was a bug from U4 to U5 where that item did not work on items with min char level of 66 to 75.) The "60" in Stone Six's advancement bar (which shows 11/60) is something different. RingTailCat (talk) 16:17, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Yes, there are two meanings to level. Item level - which is what level your LI is at. Item XP increases this level, this is the level that you have to reforge when it hits every 10 levels, etc.. Then there's minimum equipment level - your character level has to be that (or higher) to use the LI. That's what the Item:Scroll of Lesser Renewal and similar scrolls (Item:Scroll of Lesser Empowerment, for instance) are referring to when they mention max level. The difference is mentioned here: Legendary_Items#Slotting_and_Advancement. In general, any references to level are referring to equipment level, not item level. If it is referring to item level, like the text of Item:Lesser Scroll of Delving, it'll say so. Kadi (talk) 19:14, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Slotting and Advancement

I just tested this out

NOTE For each item at max level and/or set to disabled leveling, the TOTAL exp 
gained is reduced by 1 item according to the chart. 

And it is correct, i disable ALL but 2 items to see if i could power level those 2 BUT only got a gain of +20% instead of + 116% (i have 7 items). which means that chart is for 7 items NOT maxed level OR disabled level (in my case). Asurmen32 (talk) 00:09, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

I'm not sure we need this note - it's specifically pointed out two paragraphs above that maxed/disabled LIs don't count for calculating/dividing experience, isn't it? Sethladan 09:52, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

EDITED, If your talking about this part (that item XP will be divided amongst all slotted items unless an item is already at max level or you have disabled leveling on it.) that does not say anything about the bonus xp. The way it reads is "the bonus XP is divided by the total items not maxed or disabled. but implies that granted bonus XP is still ranked at total items equiped." Asurmen32 (talk) 23:39, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

Regarding the above: Perhaps the original text needs to be "upgraded" or even rewritten.

I am not really into the Legendary items yet but close, hence I tried reading this article the other week and I'd say it is not a text that is easily understood. It misses an initial summary what the system is all about, there is a lot of text for each thing rather than a short and dense leading sentence per paragraph and then example(s) and/or explanation.

I do not doubt the accuracy being good enough, but this article could be improved. Still it is better having an article than no article at all. -- Zimoon 02:47, 21 September 2012 (EDT)

Updating

I'm going to try to update this page again - I worked on it over a year ago, but had to quit before I finished due to real-life stuff. Feel free to let me know any changes desired/tweak the updates yourself. I might be jumping around the page a bit. I'm also thinking about splitting the page into more than one - it's rather long and intimidating as it is.

Kadi (talk) 12:35, 10 February 2013 (EST)

I just noticed that this page on LIs makes zero reference to the LIs introduced with Riders of Rohan -- ie. Legendary Bridles. Some information is found here: War-steed#The_Legendary_Bridle. Missing from that, which I know of, is information about the Crafted Relics for the Bridle (at leaset I believe there are some.)

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC ^talk 18:34, 14 February 2013 (EST)

Yup, adding info on Bridles to the main page is on my to-do list - especially since the relics for LI Bridles are different from any other relics. I did add the crafted Bridle Relics to the main relics page, but I haven't done the melded ones yet. But I didn't know there was a relic list under the War-steed page - I'll either add the crafted to that, or just send them to the Relics page for all of them, which I think is probably a better idea (since I'm sure they'll add more eventually). So much to do! Thanks for the input.  :)

Kadi (talk) 18:53, 14 February 2013 (EST)

I took a stab at "reorganizing" the Overview section. Hopefully it is somewhat clearer... (reflecting on Zimoon's comment above). Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC ^talk 21:08, 14 February 2013 (EST)

Complete revamp of the Legendary Items page.

I revamped the page to make it less clunky and more clear; check out LI scratch pad. I intend to replace the Legendary Items page with what's on the LI Scratch Pad now. I de-duplicated a lot of stuff, re-organized it a little bit. I also incorporated the Imbuement changes. I want someone with a higher pay-grade to check out LI Scratch Pad to see if there's anything that needs to be changed before I do the replacement. Someone check it out and leave me a message on my Talk page or something.
--Perfectapproach (talk) 14:02, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I like the changes to the page. A few suggestions - move the 'how to get started' Moria section to the top, move the list of "real" LIs to the bottom, and for the big table referencing LI imbuement legacies, put some kind of break between each of the classes and make the whole table collapsed by default. Before you make the changes, duplicate the existing page and keep it as a reference for a time so that we can easily make a few minor tweaks. Maybe flag it for deletion in 3 months or something. Rmnixon (talk) 14:33, 5 September 2015 (UTC)