User talk:Neum

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Great work on wikifying those quest rewards. Please keep going on! ^^ --Ravanel 08:46, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

Promoted to Admin! Thanks for the hard work! --Lotroadmin (talk) 22:02, 6 February 2012 (EST)
Awesome! Thanks! --Neum (talk) 19:46, 8 February 2012 (EST)
Promoted to a Bureaucrats! Long over due actually for both promotions. --Lotroadmin (talk) 03:13, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

Collaboration on Armour Sets

Hio! I noticed there are a few editors who have done some work on armour sets recently, and I wanted to give you guys the opportunity to collaborate more closely if you'd like. These are Aesch, Amphoras, KermitZ06, and Neum, among others. If you guys want to touch base with each other so you're all on the same page, I figure that'll help everyone's work go smoother. Also, I can set up (or you guys can) a project page specifically for Armour Sets so you have one central place to discuss/plan. Let me know if I can help with anything and keep up the good work. :) Sethladan 15:33, 10 April 2011 (EDT)

Algraig Rep Rewards

Good job on your work with the Algraig reputation rewards! I didn't have the Enedwaith quest pack until this weekend, and couldn't get rep to be able to talk to them, hence the stub-ish-ness of the few decoration items that had already been done. Quick question -- it looks like the other totems have the same icon as the Bull Totem, yes? I couldn't confirm whether they do have the same icon to change the other icons on the rewards vendor page to match, but if you can, that would be great! Rubyctook 15:50, 24 April 2011 (EDT)

Mobs & NPC Image

Nice job! Zophar (talk) 05:35, 4 August 2011 (EDT)

Thanks! Neum (talk) 07:47, 4 August 2011 (EDT)


Hello Neum. Saw your work on my Urugarth walkthrough. Nice work! you make it obvious that it is not an editorial, but an overview. You also didn't use directions, but just stated where things were. I now realize that the former was a mistake of mine. I think that you forgot to mention how to solve some of the problems, such as the goblins in the second part, and so forth. You also didn't mention that the green water will kil you. Now I know the lot of us did Ferdur first, but some of us have never encountered helchgam's death water before. I think that including the simple mistakes anewbie, who strolls right in (which from the first half of the instance is apparently not a problem) what do do, and what to not do, rather than just were to go. Other than that, your worte a great walkthrough that pretty much is my work with no garbage. Just some contructive notes. --Bonzesquire (talk) 23:25, 4 October 2011 (EDT)

Changes to Destiny Points (PvMP)  coming in Update 6/7

FYI: See the Developer's Diary Update 6: Commendations Developer Diary for details.

Update 6 is rumored to be appearing on Bullroarer "next weeek" (first week in March.)

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 12:34, 20 February 2012 (EST)
Oh! Very nice to know. I was going to work on adding armour sets, but I think I'll wait on that and see how much they'll be changing in the next update. Neum (talk) 03:18, 25 February 2012 (EST)

Thanks for...

...the nice NPC images. Only the little folks can photo little folks ;)
Zimoon (talk) 15:01, 22 February 2012 (EST)

Thanks! If you ever need someone to get down and dirty with the dwarves, I'm your man...err, hobbit. Neum (talk) 03:18, 25 February 2012 (EST)
Recycling this block with a comment on categories. I moved an NPC image of yours to area level. There is no need to track them more narrow than that, sometimes I put them at region level if the area has just one NPC (to avoid too much fuss with categories.
Perhaps you have seen that we use a very much narrower scope for NPCs and quests. But these are the transcluded from the category page onto the location, whether a landmark, settlement, or an area. Often I stretch the border of these somewhat ... if an NPC stands a few or a dozen meters outside the border but still appears connected, what is the problem? But if I know that it is just one NPC or quest for a certain location then I do not create a category. At a quest we can still use the starting/ending-location for the true location, but we use the wider category. At the NPC template you can use the "location = ..." for the same effect, it shows but does not add to a category ;)
If something does not make sense, bash at me :D
Zimoon (talk) 11:06, 27 February 2012 (EST)
Sounds good to me. I try to stay in line with what other people have done, but sometimes it's not always easy to follow. I'm just glad I'm not the only one working on this wiki. Neum (talk) 09:10, 28 February 2012 (EST)

Also wanted to say thanks for getting the rest of the scroll case icons. They weren't all available on the AH when I started them, and I'm honestly relieved that I won't have to screencap the rest of them. You're my hero :-D -Adelas (talk) 23:49, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

Luckily I held on to some on a long-forgotten alt and the rest were ones people happened to link in chat. However, most of the expert and one of the journeyman icons are still missing, but I've got a character around that level who just might happen upon them. Neum (talk) 06:48, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Map images

Hey Neum,
I appreciate your efforts in updating the maps, but I'm usually overwriting them as you might have seen. So it might save you work if you just tell me to do something about it instead of uploading them yourself :) --EoD (talk) 11:01, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

Generic icons

Hey! You did good work on User:Neum/Sandbox, I discovered that page only now. I started to generalise some de/buff icons a while ago but I saw that you had a different naming scheme. I'm open to rename the icons like File:Fear-debuff-icon.png to something you prefer, like "Fear_(debuff)-icon.png" although I would like to skip the numbering where no other version exists (like Fear 1). What is your opinion on that? Can we maybe move your Sandbox page to a more public place and create links toward it? I can fire my bot up once again, which can help us renaming the icons (especially as you collected all of them already). --EoD (talk) 14:26, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

I just set up an experimental page which should show all generic icons at once: Generic Icons. Any opinions on that, too? --EoD (talk) 18:28, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
Sure, you can move it somewhere more public. I did this back on April 15 as a way to consolidate Category:Effect Icons, then I realized how much work it would take and put it aside for a bit. While I tried to be thorough, it doesn't contain every icon; there are plenty in there that do not have a duplicate or follow a pattern. These were just the blatantly obvious to me.
As for the naming scheme, I'm pretty open. I tried to match names to existing files (e.g., Category talk:Defence Effect Icons). Numbers are there in case Turbine adds new icons of that type, though I don't mind if we forego the numbers for those with only one type. I guess it'd be a decision between "Fear", "Fear 2", "Fear 3", etc. or "Fear 1", "Fear 2", "Fear 3", etc. Whichever way we do it, as long as it's consistent, I'm happy.
Oh, and that generic icon page -- super nice. It takes so much time to go to every talk page, especially if one is trying to upload armour sets, so that would be a huge convenience. Category:Other Icons actually contains lots more categories than what you're showing. Though frankly, I'm not sure what makes them "Other" while other categories aren't. That whole area could use a little more finesse. Neum (talk) 05:06, 13 May 2012 (EDT)
Yeah indeed, I intentionally skipped Category:Other Icons because it looked a bit unorganized to me. I'll see if I can incorporate that page into lotro-wiki during the next days. I still have to think about the naming scheme though. --EoD (talk) 07:49, 13 May 2012 (EDT)
Glad to see this sort of stuff getting documented as it is being created! -- Help:Generic Icons is desperately needed (along with about a skazillion other similar pages). BTW, don't forget to include some "extensive" verbiage explaining both what you are thinking (the problem, and why you created "xxxx") as well as how you expect them to be used (the solution). Don't assume that others have a clue as to WHY you are doing what you are doing the way you are doing it.
We here at LOTRO-wiki take A LOT for granted when it comes to "knowledge of what is going on" -- why something is being done the way it is done. A simple example: why we use Creatures instead of Mobs as a designator. (I have no idea myself. Is is a purely arbitrary designator?) There is a tremendous amount of "institutional knowledge" which needs to be passed on from generation to generation of editors and 99% of that is not written down, and consequently gets lost.
Also As you are working this topic, keep in mind -- User_talk:Lotroadmin#Proposal: install the Semantic mediawiki extension -- Meaning -- Assuming these icons are actually going to show up on a "suck" from the api. How should we index this stuff, etc. It (should) make life easier overall. I.e. what kind of "design" changes do we need to be contemplating.
Just as a side comment and pat-on-the-back-to-all-at-LOTRO-WIKI -- As a Founder/Lifetime account holder, I have a bunch of toons. Only two of them are 75s. As I have been leveling up the others (mainly because "mules" can no longer craft T7 without REP from lvl 65+ (and now 75!) factions (Heroes of Limlight Gorge)... sigh... I find that LOTRO-wiki is the only place with even vaguely current information across the entire world of Middle Earth. Many other sites "stopped at Moria." They have not kept pace with the changes from the various areas which have been re-worked, let alone the new areas.
--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:24, 13 May 2012 (EDT)

Jacket of the Shade-finder

Holy efficiency, Batman! I had just put in an email to the editor that added the info and I turn around and you've finished it. Cheers! :) Sethladan 13:45, 14 May 2012 (EDT)

Hehe, sorry about that. I saw the edit, went back to the game and realized it was staring me in the face. I'll try not to be so quick next time and let others have their share of work. ;) Neum (talk) 13:48, 14 May 2012 (EDT)

New Item Summary

Please put some text in the new item summary.

Look at [1]. The default summary is the first part of the page text. This causes each entry in Recent Changes to have several lines of non-useful information displayed for each new item. Putting any non-blank text into the summary avoids this default behaviour.

I put in "Create page" when I'm not feeling more creative.

- RingTailCat (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2012 (EDT)

Heh, just noticed that. I will do that in the future then. Neum (talk) 15:42, 26 July 2012 (EDT)

Nice job on those images

My warmest commendations, I try to add a stub rather than replacing when time or light of day is not on my side. And sometimes when older images are not great but neither awful, those on the border line so to speak. -- Zimoon (talk) 18:05, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, I just wanted to take it easy today and slowly chip away at the Stubs/Image category. Neum (talk) 18:40, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Mystery Cloaks

Hello! Nice job with all the images at Item:Chain Cloak of Mystery. How did you get pictures of all those? I've been working on collecting the hauberk patterns, but couldn't figure out how to get them all, other than buying lots and lots of cosmetics until I run out of new ones. Is there a shorter way to find the patterns, or did you just have a lot of marks to spend? -- Elinnea (talk) 20:00, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

I used the LOTRO Compendium plugin and the Item Scanner add-on to troll through some of the newly added items. I've been picking up a few cloaks at the skirmish camp every now and then and comparing them with what I found in the plug-in until I felt comfortable posting all 20 of the patterns. All those anniversary tokens really helped recoup my mark expenditures. Neum (talk) 04:52, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
Oo, very clever! I'll have to give that a shot. With proper verification, of course. :) -- Elinnea (talk) 10:22, 6 August 2012 (EDT)


Hiya, Neum. Happened across this unused image which I guess is supposed to go with Item:D.R.A.G.O.N. Since there's already another icon there and I've never done much festival stuff, I wanted to check if you were trying to replace the icon and/or if one or the other is misnamed (missing/extra period). Thanks in advance. :) Sethladan 11:27, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

That was supposed to be the icon for one of those festival skills (e.g., Foul Blast, Frosty Beverage) but I guess I forgot to create the pages for it (Consume Consumables: D.R.A.G.O.N., Item:Festival Skill: D.R.A.G.O.N., D.R.A.G.O.N.). I believe that the item itself is missing a period at the end, but I no longer have the item to confirm that. Neum (talk) 13:49, 19 August 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for the clarification - those festival items and skills and deeds are a nightmare, hahah. I'll leave it then and hopefully someone will catch up with the details next time around. Sethladan 15:16, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Mounts Infobox

I just happened across this today - Template:Infobox Mounts - very nicely done! Is there any reason this hasn't been picked up for, at the very least, the Mounts page? They could probably go alongside each of the mount skills, as well. Sethladan 13:58, 1 September 2012 (EDT)

Oh gosh, that was back in the day when I was more ambitious. I believe my original intention was to redo the Mounts page using this template, but I was having trouble getting the templates to sit side-by-side nicely. It was that float parameter giving me problems, but I suppose that having them left-justified is okay. At least that's how they are currently on the mounts page. I don't think I intended to put them on mount skill pages, though, that might not be a bad idea in an abbreviated format. However, that might take a little more massaging to find something that works well.
I still think it would be a good addition to the Mounts page and I'll be willing to do the conversion, but the template needs a little bit of polishing. Basically, the template should hide the default name cells if there's no input and the template should default to left-justfied instead of right. Any other suggestions? Neum (talk) 15:29, 1 September 2012 (EDT)
Depending on how you wanted to get them sitting side-by-side, it should be pretty easy to do, either using a nested table or <div style="display:inline-block;">. The tables approach is more reliable and old-fashioned, but sort of cheating now that we have CSS. I threw together an example of both at User:Sethladan/Sandbox3 - is that something like what you were going for? I can definitely help if you need to finangle the code some more, but I think it otherwise looks great and don't have any suggestions to add. You might talk with Elinnea, RingTailCat, or Magill, though, as they're more hands-on with mounts and might have feedback or ideas. Sethladan 16:00, 1 September 2012 (EDT)
That box looks really cool, Neum, me like :)
-- Zimoon (talk) 06:40, 2 September 2012 (EDT)
Ooh, I like it! It's like a horse/pony/goat trading card. It would be very nice on the Mounts page, and I think it'd be good for the mount item page too (such as Item:Prized Rivendell Steed). Although it could be just me, but the text on the bottom section seems a bit small, especially when it's next to any other text on the wiki.
The other person involved in Mounts is Jadzi (User:JnK), who has been working on collecting the default mount names and improving formatting. If it comes to the point of implementation, he (she?) could probably be a help. -- Elinnea (talk) 11:10, 2 September 2012 (EDT)
I agree with Elin, and suggest you leave the font as standard, just use bold or italic when necessary. Partly to let the wiki-engine do its job, and partly if individual players apply their own skins or browser specific settings for fonts.
Hopefully it is possible to sort out the differently sized thumb images, or simply top-valign the two. Also, Id suggest keeping the table under the thumbs separate so that text in the right column can do without line-breaks and the left column is not super-wide. But that is the nit-picky part ;)
When it comes to Tooltip, how will that look like?
-- Zimoon (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2012 (EDT)

Yay, nice job on the Mounts page! I like it with the templates, and think it will be easier to update with new mounts too. -- Elinnea (talk) 14:24, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

Yay! Hopefully this'll hold up for the foreseeable future, at least until we figure out a better way to display them. ;) Neum (talk) 14:49, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

War-steeds are not Mounts... but...

The question is how to relate the two.

  • War-steeds have "cosmetics" which directly map to Mounts. I.e. if you purchased (I think it is) a Class Mount from the LOTRO Store, you will receive a "matching" War-steed set of cosmetics when RoR releases tomorrow.
  • They also have "unique" cosmetic items for purchase as well as Quest rewards.

At the moment, I have barely made mention of the Cosmetics issues on the current War-steed page. However, it clearly needs to be done. It is a completely separate page, War-steed Appearance The topic is a "lengthy" issue -- 5 components per steed, and I have no idea how-many options in the Store and as drops and quest rewards.

See: Lotro_Store#War-steeds for the classifications and nomenclature Turbine uses. That list is correct as of the last day of Beta 6.

One other thing which I just noticed, and don't know the in-game implications...

i.e. do having acquired these "War-steeds" do you get matching barding for your Rohan War-steed? (As with the:

from the RoR pre-purchase.

I'd say that war-steeds are mounts and so are all the standard steeds, but we need to modify Mounts to reflect that and become more of a portal and information hub about mounts in general then provide links to things like war-steeds, mounted combat, war-steed appearance, war-steed traits as well as a standard steed directory broken down by category (what exists on the page now). That's just what I envision it as, and I don't know what others had in mind.
Most of those meta-deed war-steed skills were changed in a recent update to great-horse/pony. They didn't seem to change the item names, though, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I've got one of them so I'll see if I get the matching barding upon next login, though I doubt that's the case. I saw neither hide nor hair of those in my beta travels. Neum (talk) 06:08, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
I would consider War-steeds to be mounts as well, especially since you can ride them even in areas where mounted combat is disabled. I like Neum's idea, to have Mounts be a hub page that links to the other related pages. What would you call the current (old) mounts though? Non-combat Mounts? Basic Steeds? Standard Mounts? Standard Steeds? (Nice alliteration on that one.) -- Elinnea (talk) 10:57, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

Image question

Neum, do you recall which of the three Angmarim Silkspinners that is pictured at ? -- Zimoon (talk) 12:07, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

I don't remember precisely, but I'm fairly confident it's the one from Helegrod Treasury since I don't remember taking screenshots of the other two. Neum (talk) 12:36, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
Thanks, I will go with that, tomowwow . wow what late it is. -- Zimoon (talk) 17:22, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

NPCbox - region

Since the region is the "default" unless no previous condition is true your edit won't work either, I think. I guess it should rather not have any #if but be a catch-all [[Category:{{{region|}}} NPCs]]. Would this not either put them in any value for region, or second-hand into "Category:NPCs", right? But as I read your change, if there is no region the NPC won't fall in any category whatsoever, unless quest or so. Am I wrong?

It was indeed sloppy of me to miss those extra curly braces, I apologize. -- Zimoon (talk) 11:38, 9 November 2012 (EST)

No worries. Everything looks to be in working order now. Neum (talk) 12:32, 9 November 2012 (EST)


Saw some of your quest page moves. I'm curious, what is your reasoning behind adding the (Optional)? --Savi (talk) 13:32, 22 May 2013 (EDT)

Some time ago they switched the level 58 class quests to be soloable so they dropped the last quest in the series as a requirement for the class trait since they involve going through an instance and as part of that they appended "(Optional)" to the name of all those quests. Neum (talk) 13:54, 22 May 2013 (EDT)
Ahhh, I was unaware; thank you for the clarification! ^_^ --Savi (talk) 14:49, 22 May 2013 (EDT)

Do you know anything about: Template_talk:Item_Tooltip#Undocumented.2Fincomplete_changes...?

Do you know anything about: Template_talk:Item_Tooltip#Undocumented.2Fincomplete_changes...?

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 12:32, 13 August 2013 (EDT)


I've enjoyed seeing your edits and image additions to some of the creature pages. In case you were unaware, there is a new template you can use if you want to update that part at the same time. See Template:Mob and Template:Moblore. I'm slowly coverting them when I have some freetime, but there are quite a few monster pages ^_^ For a sample converted page...Big Black-bear. Also, not sure if you are checking advanced stats of the creatures or not, but if so there is also the Category:Mobs Needing an Inspection --Savi (talk) 12:31, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

These templates do a good job at making the pages feel less cluttered, however, I think they could use some minor changes to better blend in with the overall style of our other templates. Maybe that would be a bit more padding around elements, a slightly lighter background like those using the tooltip template or alternating row colors. It'd also be nice if the template dumped creatures with an incomplete inspect into a region-specific stub category or there will be a whole lot of pages to sort through in that category. And heck, in a dream world, these creatures could even use the tooltip template to pop-up on other pages like effects, items and skills.
"Most" Mobs with incomplete inspects wind up in the Category:Mobs Needing an Image, nominally by region. (Simply because they also did not have an image.)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 14:40, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
I've been avoiding any large-scale changes in the off-chance that someone gets a bot working. One can hope, right? Right now, I'm more or less cherry-picking through certain creatures as I work on images, but I may look into this further if I ever get around to working on skirmish mobs which will probably need a slightly different approach. For instance, because of the range in levels, the inspect information is next to useless, so we could replace the lore section with a morale and power table. But all this is still a lingering fragment of a formulation. Neum (talk) 05:19, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
I'd be fine with all those minor changes. They are close to my first attempt at creating templates so my know-how was and is rather limited. I was just happy I could figure out how to make the basic pieces work. Feel free to apply some finesse to its visuals.
Bots would certainly be helpful for sure. The only reason these templates came about is because I'm trying to change the lootbox drops to lootitem drops (which adds a property that allows an automatic search for where a certain item can be found). A bot was looked at awhile ago to do this but the lootbox template is used in more places than just creature drops so it would probably cause some mayhem. So since I was already going through the mob pages I figured I may as well declutter the current template a bit at the same time.
I'm still waiting for someone who knows more about templates than I do to figure out the loot box problem over on the testwiki. But there are so few editors around these days, that none of the old-timers who know have shown up... :(
BTW- to gain access to the test-wiki ask User talk:Lotroadmin ... the only safe place to work on templates with "wide usage" Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 14:40, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
I'm honestly of the opinion that the inspect information is next to useless in most scenarios...which is why I made it a separate template. I never have used them myself, but didn't want the information to simply disappear, so it's present but not obtrusive. I completely understand if you don't have the time to apply these changes, just wanted to extend the invitation per say. I only have 2 current wiki projects but I still don't have much time to make headway. Too many things I'd love to see done but just don't have the time to do them. --Savi (talk) 10:43, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
There is also another Template for the Ettenmoors Mops (see example Sun-touched Eagle). If you work on such Templates, maybe you also think on this mops. Barny (talk) 10:54, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
I did indeed see that template when I was creating the new ones. For two reasons I did not try to copy its form. The first was because having a quick different visual makes a viewer realise that its not from the normal pve world, and secondly...because I thought it was incredibly too noisy and it hurt my eyes, lol ^_^ --Savi (talk) 12:54, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
Yes, (at one time) all of the Moor's templates defaulted to an "orange and black" motif, for that reason.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 14:40, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
Hello again! Just wanted to let you know that the creature template will now automatically categorize skirmish mobs into their specific skirm categories, so manually adding those cats is not needed. (As long as the area name corresponds correctly obviously). The skirm cats are listed at Template:Creature/doc between the two pre boxes. Though the link names are not the will at least give a link to the actual skirmish information rather than the deed information. --Savi (talk) 14:59, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for letting me know. Neum (talk) 15:12, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Documentation Project

Please see Help talk:Editing Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 13:58, 28 September 2013 (EDT)

So many templates

Lately I find myself in a frenzy creating and modifying templates all over the place, and it would help to have more sets of eyes for feedback and bug testing so I can catch my breath before implementing these on a wider scale. Here's a little overview of what I've done so far. Feel free to try these out on a page or two and see if they make sense or not.

Template:Barter Table (example)

This template is meant to standardize barter tables on item pages. At the moment, it can only handle one item to receive, and two items to trade. I don't expect this to be a problem on most pages, however, it will not work for Tarnished Symbol of the Elder King.

Template:Creature Rep (example)

This template hijacks Template:Quest Rep and denies the page categorization as a reputation quest and instead puts it in Category:Reputation Creatures under the appropriate faction.

Template:Infobox Titles (example)

These changes to the Title template roll in functionality from the Monster Play Title template so that we can get rid of that and its two helper templates Template:MP TitlesDetails and Template:MP TitlesRequirements. This template works exactly the same, but Monster Play titles need MP = y to change the colors and autocategorization.
I've hesitated to implement this one because I have some concerns about the categorization of Monster Play titles. Creep titles get Category:Monster Player Titles and Freep titles get Category:Free Peoples Titles but they all get Category:Monster Play Titles which seems a bit redundant to me. And Category:Rank Titles, which includes both Monster Player and Free Peoples ranks is situated beneath Monster Player Titles. On the whole, Monster Play categories follow a different set of rules at the moment, and I'm not sure if that is intentional or out of oversight.

Template:Object and Template:ObjectInfo (example)

Even though Template:Infobox Item is deprecated, resource spawn pages still use it. These templates are an attempt to standardize the objects using Template:Item Tooltip as well as add some specific formatting. My hope is to also use this template for landscape treasure chests, cocoons and corpses tracked with Track Treasure but that's quite a ways down the road and much lower priority, however, something in the back of my mind tells me these might be better as separate templates. Or perhaps they just need something more descriptive than Template:Object.
The ObjectInfo template can be rather buggy if the inputs deviate widely, though it is usable. There's also a conflict in transclusion on the Scholar Artifacts page, so that will have to be sorted out. And there's a bug/feature in Template:Lootitems that adds an extra new line when it has a title but I haven't been brave enough to touch that one yet. Using Template:Lootitems also puts the HasDrop property on the pages so they then show up on the loot page which I'm undecided if that's desirable (see the drop-down box on Aged Scrap of Text).
I also have some not-quite-ready code in there to deal with an item if it cannot be used while mounted but it doesn't display in the correct location beneath the skillreq parameters. The only reason I include that is to differentiate between Eastemnet and the lower resource tiers. It's been mentioned before, but this might be better dealt with at the Template:Item Tooltip level.

Template:WEffect (example)

This template is meant to standarize certain weapon bonuses and effects commonly found on items. Right now it covers all major weapon effects as well as a few other non-weapon-specific effects. This could be expanded to include many of the effects on newer items such as Shiny Sunbrand Necklace of Skill but perhaps an additional template would be appropriate here.

User:Neum/Sandbox3 (Work in progress)

I'm looking at resolving some differences between Template:Mob, Template:Moblore and Template:Creature to see if (1) there's a way to present the information that better conforms to the current site style and (2) is easier to transition.
(1) If we go forward with Template:Mob and use a right-floating, tooltip-like appearance, there's a few ways we can present it. I'm leaning toward the Infobox style that I set up in my sandbox, but we could also do something with a darker background, like that of an item tooltip and what one would see hovering over an enemy in the game. And there's always a third style if we're worried about getting creatures visually mixed up with other templates.
(2) The thought here is to use the same variable names so we can just switch out the template name for the new one. It's possible we could just update Template:Creature to the new appearance and forget about Template:Mob. If Template:Moblore stays separate, we'll have to add that in manually as well. So we'll not only have to redo all the pages that have already been converted to Template:Mob, but the rest of the creature pages as well. On the bright side, it should be much quicker going forward. I pray every night to the bot lords but it may be time to accept our fates and dive in headlong.

I'll try to take it easy for a while and work on some other areas like gathering data for Survival - Barrow-downs Deeds, all the while silently preparing to ramp up template modding again as we close in on Helm's Deep.

Neum (talk) 18:36, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

Whoo, busy indeed! Glad to see you're having fun with the templates, at least. ;) I think I was the one who started Template:Object as a replacement for those last remaining Infobox Items thingies and then left it orphaned - happy someone picked it up and finished the job.
At first blush, everything looks to be well-intentioned and solid enough. My only concern is with the barter table, and I wonder if standardizing things with a template will serve much use - we're going to end up with some things out of sync (you mentioned the Symbol of the Elder King) and, while a table might be more verbose, I think it's a lot clearer to the casual observer what's going on when the page needs updating/editing.
Along the same vein (now that I'm taking another look) - be sure you're not getting caught up in the excitement of putting everything in a template - ObjectInfo's location parameter is a good example because all that text would function just as well outside of a template. If anything, I would suggest collapsing the loot info right into the main Object template if you really wanted to have that there. We can always dictate standards for layout and formatting through boilerplate and help pages, and that way things still look like articles when you open them up for editing.
Great job with trying to make all the parts work together and identifying areas of redundancy! Sethladan 19:49, 4 October 2013 (EDT)
Phew is right! -- Before I forget, thanks for creating "Create new trait" (which you forgot to list above).
I haven't looked at the above yet, but don't forget, each template should have a corresponding <template>/doc file explaining it! Then maybe a "boilerplate" and a "Create new" if appropriate.
One project I've been toying with is to take the page: Category: Templates and make that an "index" page similar to Category: Stubs which is a primitive listing/indexing of all Templates. Just haven't gotten around to it.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 14:00, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
A related question to Seth's comment above -- see: User_talk:Lotroadmin#Warning:_This_page_contains_too_many_expensive_parser_function_calls.
One wonders how many other pages are "close to the boundary" like this one? Does excess Template usage cause the problem. I don't actually understand the issue, so I don't know.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 14:03, 5 October 2013 (EDT)
Regarding "expensive parser function calls": It's an issue related to certain parser functions that are computationally expensive. This is only a problem for us with #ifexists, but since one of the item tooltip templates uses that when checking for icons, pages with more than 500 Template:Reward calls or similar will choke on the limit. (We really shouldn't be listing 500 items all on one page, anyway.)
So it's not an issue with templates themselves, but only with specific code and edge cases that we should be able to resolve individually. Sethladan 14:31, 5 October 2013 (EDT)

Template loop detected: Template Trait

Please see Template_talk: Trait - Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 20:38, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Revisiting your Template activities.

Please visit Category talk:Templates

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 15:40, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Cosmetic Pets

Thanks for all your work on the Cosmetic Pets icons! Eteocles (talk) 08:14, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

No problemo. I'm just building on all the work you've done. Thanks! Neum (talk) 18:14, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Supreme Essence of Blocking icon

Hey Neum - I'm not sure how you captured the original essence icons, but we still need one for Essence of Blocking (epic)-icon.png. If you can't capture it can you tell me how to? Thanks. --Gaerlin (talk) 22:31, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

When essences first came out, they didn't have the tier numbers in the upper-right corner. Either I missed the epic Block and Evasion essences or they weren't in the game yet. I used one of the other icons to remove the tier number, but it looks like the tier gives a slightly darker outline which is more difficult to remove. If it doesn't mesh well, just use the one with the tier number. Oh, and I use the Item Treasury plugin for easy viewing. Neum (talk) 21:06, 2 May 2016 (UTC)