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Hello, Barny, and welcome to LotRO-Wiki, the Lord of the Rings Online Wiki!
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We hope you enjoy editing here!
- Promoted to Administrator! Wow very impressive number of edits in such a short time! --Lotroadmin (talk) 23:45, 13 August 2013 (EDT)
Woohoo! You're nailing all these missing legendary recipes, really appreciated! A splendid template to deal with them all, thumbs up! Keep up the good work! :) --Goingbald (talk) 23:20, 6 May 2013 (EDT)
- It's not finished till now. I'm not happy with the pictures in the crafting template, becaue its always the first picture of the legendary item. I also want to make a template for the legendary items in the crafting Recipe Indexes. I hope my english is got enough :) --Barny (talk) 12:04, 7 May 2013 (CEST)
Any tips on tedious wiki edits?
Hi there, Glad someone else does not mind doing all the small tedious wiki edits needed to update pages.
One thing I noticed was just how quickly you are doing the edits. I was wondering if you had any tips for another editor on speeding up the work?
Curious if you are just that fast a typist or if there are some tricks I could learn.
-Shardis (talk) 10:00, 26 June 2013 (EDT)
- I'm playing Lotro since 3 Years, so I now very much things at the pages, where I make my edits. The second thing is, that I like the copy, paste funktions. So, when I found an error, an update, ... than I make this ones, afterwards I klick edit at the same Page (in a new tab), so I can do the same changes on every other Page, Item, ... where also need an update. I hope, I can help you with them. Barny (talk) 11:56, 26 June 2013 (EDT)
- I would add... having a large screen (mine is 27 inches)... I can easily open two browser windows at the same time -- makes cutting and pasting even easier...keep whatever you are using for boilerplate in one window and your current work in another, then line up your tabs and away you go.
- If you have a "list" of pages you are adding, that is frequently easier and faster than constantly going back and using the "Create" function. This can be particularly useful to avoid missing updates you want to do. I've tended to structure the Category pages that way... use the [[ around the name of the page you want to create, the you can click on it and cut and paste into the blank page.
- Category:Wildermore and Wildermore for example. It also provides a way to FIND the %^& things you are working on. :) Every once in a while I actually get as methodical as Elinnea!
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 23:37, 26 June 2013 (EDT)
- I think I have done something similar to what you mentioned in your second part with my Moria quest updates. I create the pages that show the progression or flow of the quests, then go down that progression either updating quests or creating new ones as needed. On the first with 2 windows side by side, I sometimes have various snippets of wiki code sitting in an open text document on half the screen and lotro-wiki in a browser window in second half of the screen.
- I try to make use of copy/paste where I can, but still frequently a certain amount of typing to change that one field that is different for each page. Or I have a multi-step process where I want to copy/paste one thing for one step, and then copy/paste something else for the next step before repeating all over (having to bounce back and forth between 2 things I want to paste). Would be nice if I could have multiple copy/paste slots :/
- -Shardis (talk) 00:05, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
- This may not be of any practical use to anybody else, but my best strategy when doing repetitive and somewhat mindless edits is to put on some music that I really like, or listen to a podcast. As long as it doesn't have words that will throw me off, that helps me get into a rhythm of click-copy-paste-click-paste etc. I also use the strategy of making an index/list page first, and then it's easy to have a list to work down so I know I've hit everything I need.
- There is also the strategy of using a bot, if you know anything about that. Some things can only be done by a human brain, but bots are surprisingly versatile and can handle quite a bit. It also helps keep the recent changes page a little cleaner, since bot edits can be filtered out.
- On that note... I would also signal to you that there is a "This is a minor edit" checkbox that can be marked when you're doing a change. I try to use that when I'm making a tiny fix on many pages, so I can filter them out of the recent changes screen. It makes it easier to catch posts to talk pages or more significant edits when they're not being drowned out by a sea of small edits. -- Elinnea (talk) 09:29, 27 June 2013 (EDT)
- Based on Barny's comment about unix and 2 copy/paste functions, I realized one thing that would help me a lot is having multiple copy/paste lines so I can click one spot in page and paste some text, then click another spot and paste some different text. Since I work on Windows 7, I have been looking at 3rd party clipboard managers (ones with good hotkey support) to replace the built-in one which can only remember the last item copied.
- I think RingTailCat was one of the last regular editors who still used a bot. I know nothing about them so would need to take the time to learn before I could use one. Don't know how much one would help with the generic icon consolidation. I haven't gone through and planned the generic icons ahead of time. When in the mood, I just go into one of the icon categories and look for the icons repeated the most and steadily work through them until I get tired of it or start reaching a point of declining consolidation. If I planned it ahead of time with a list like you folks are talking, I might be able to program a bot to do the edits (once I learned how to use one). I know Magill or RTC created such a list for quest item icons which I have used when working on that consolidation.
- I try to use the minor edit checkbox when I think it is applicable. Marking entries for deletion is one when I don't check it. If there are any aspects of my edits where you think I should be using minor edit box and am not, just leave a message on my talk page and I can change them in future.
- -Shardis (talk) 11:59, 28 June 2013 (EDT)
Editing and Bots
- The primary thing about BOT edits is that they occur across the wiki. They are particularly useful when, as Elinnea and I have been discussing -- all Skills need to have certain parameters inserted and/or changed to allow them to appear as tool tips. The big problem currently is that I don't know if any of the "old editors" who ran bot passes are still around and can be called upon to do so. RTC was the one I relied upon in the recent past, and he has just dropped into "very occasional" status. I haven't advertised for one yet as I'm still working on fixing up the "documentation" for the skills template. There are several components involved in the documentation of (most) all templates...
- As well as any related Help pages and project pages (see the 4 sections of the Help screen. In the case of Skill, the only relevant help entry is under "Boilerplate". I expect I'll have that completed this weekend, but who knows how many BBQs I'll be expected to attend!
- At the moment, all I know about bots is that they make use of Regular Expressions -- so any Unix/Linux background is a plus. User:RingTailBot is the only thing I know about bots at this point in time.. have to do more research on them.... the must be documented someplace! ( Wikipedia's basic bot tutorial is the obvious starting point...Wikipedia:Bots however, we run MediaWiki, with Semantic Media Wiki extensions.... so there is a lot of reading to do, and I still have 7 alts to drag up to 85 before Bullroarer starts running Update 12 (which may or may not be the Helms Deep expansion) next month!!
Apparently, the two basic parameters for this wiki are:
- pywikimediabot (whatever/wherever that is) -- I assume a python script.
- create a separate account for the bot ala User:RingTailBot
Please see: Template_talk:Skill#Change_to_be_tooltip
Hmmmm Tool-Tipping... soooo sounds like Cow-Tipping.... Thanks for doing the burglar pages (that I've noticed so far).
I just did the Burglar Skills page and only had one effect I needed to "undo" --
- When there are multiple effects on the page -- only the first one gets wrapped with the <onlyinclude></onlyinclude> all of the others are just "Plain." The pop-up doesn't change, but if you use the "|mode=imlink}}" or "|mode=link}}" syntax, you get all X of them in-line, instead of just one.
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 06:26, 10 July 2013 (EDT)
Recent Recipe modifications....
Please check ...(Majestic Marchwarden's stuff) I got caught on this once with a different set of recipes.
There are probably two SAME NAME recipes but with different cool-downs and requisites!
Basically, that I know of, there are a set of Guild recipes which duplicate the Kindred recipes of Riders of Stangard.
If I remember correctly, the Kindred recipes are actually inferior in that they are single use recipes which bind to the purchaser!!! (which was how I discovered it.) Consequently they do not have cool-downs.
Turbine responded to complaints about the BOA nature of those recipes by coming up with the Guild versions. However, I don't know if they ever deleted the Kindred recipes. I doubt that they did.
Checking my tailor has a set of single use Recipes for Marchwarden's Armour the Critical which is not guaranteed is the Majestic Marchwarden's Armour. I have no idea where I got them.
- The Guild recipes never need a Reputation of Riders of Stangard and are never single use Recipes. I think there was a copy paste error from the standard Recipes (Enduring Great River stuff and Supple Great River stuff). See example Polished Great River Dagger Recipe from Weaponsmith.
- The Majestic Marchwarden's stuff had only the wrong Reputation name "Kindred Standing with Tailor's Guild" instead of "Artisan of the Guild Standing with Tailor's Guild". See Magnificent Master's stuff from Tailor were I don't made this changes till now.
- I think you saw the standard Recipe Marchwarden's Armour Recipe were is a single use. This is a drop from the Scroll Case.
- I checked it.
- Supreme (For the Ligth Armour stuffs):
- Level 51 are the Basic Recipes Rock-climber's Armour Recipe
- Level 54:
- Standard Recipe: Searcher's Armour Recipe, neends no Reputation, is a Drop from Supreme Tailor Scroll Case
- Guild Recipe: there is no one
- Level 56:
- Standard Recipe: Treasure-hunter's Armour Recipe, neends no Reputation, is a Drop from Supreme Tailor Scroll Case
- Guild Recipe: there is no one
- Level 58:
- Standard Recipe: Master's Armour Recipe, neends no Reputation, is a Drop from Supreme Tailor Scroll Case (rare)
- Guild Recipe: Magnificent Master's Armour Recipe, neends Artisan of the Guild Standing with Tailor's Guild, is a Vendor from Toby Eatwell
- Level 60:
- Standard Recipe: Robe of Lothlórien Recipe, neends Friend Standing with Galadhrim, is a Barter from Isdúr
- Guild Recipe: Resplendent Robe of Lothlórien Recipe, neends Artisan of the Guild Standing with Tailor's Guild, is a Vendor from Resplendent Robe of Lothlórien Scroll Case from Maenasdir and the Scroll Case needs Friend Standing with Galadhrim
- Level 65:
- Standard Recipe: Tawarwaith Robe Recipe, neends Friend Standing with Malledhrim, is a Barter from Iawen
- Guild Recipe: there is no one
- Westfold (For the Ligth Armour stuffs):
- Level 66 are the Basic Recipes
- Level 68:
- Standard Recipe: I don't know, neends no Reputation, is a Drop from Tailor's Decorated Scroll Case
- Guild Recipe: there is no one
- Level 70 (Men of Dunland):
- Standard Recipe: Dunlending Campaign Armour Recipe, neends Friend Standing with Men of Dunland, is a Vendor from Dunlending Quartermaster
- Guild Recipe: there is no one
- Level 72:
- Standard Recipe: I don't know, neends no Reputation, is a Drop from Tailor's Adorned Scroll Case
- Guild Recipe: there is no one
- Level 75 (Théodred's Riders):
- Standard Recipe: Campaign Robe of the Rider Recipe, neends Friend Standing with Théodred's Riders, is a Vendor from Rohirrim Quartermaster
- Guild Recipe: Assault Robe of Théodred Recipe, neends Master of the Guild Standing with Tailor's Guild, is a Vendor from Toby Eatwell
- Level 75 (Riders of Stangard):
- Standard Recipe: Great River Robe Recipe, neends Friend Standing with The Riders of Stangard, is a Barter from Colbrand
- Guild Recipe: Supple Great River Robe Recipe, neends Master of the Guild Standing with Tailor's Guild, is a Vendor from Toby Eatwell
I think you got my point backwards...
The Guild recipes never need a Reputation of Riders of Stangard and are never single use Recipes. I think there was a copy paste error from the standard Recipes (Enduring Great River stuff and Supple Great River stuff). See example Polished Great River Dagger Recipe from Weaponsmith.
The Reputation single-use recipe is duplicated by a Guild "auto-crit" Recipe... For example:
Great River Gloves Recipe is duplicated by Supple Great River Gloves Recipe.
The two recipes are "identical" except that one comes from the Rep Vendor and the other comes from the Guild -- the guild recipe is an auto-crit with a 6 day cool-down, while the Guild recipe has a "standard crit" but is single use.... both generate the same crit item(s) See the page: (not the tool-tip) Item:Supple Great River Gloves of Integrity.
To the best of my knowledge, those recipes were never drops, only available from those two sources.
Both recipes are valid, just their sources are different. I was just pointing out that this has been a problem/point of confusion in the past so you did't get tripped-up on it. It's also possible that this problem only cropped up with The Great River update, and those recipes. It may not have been an issue with Rise of Isengard (Dunland) Recipes.
- Barry, Recently you deleted the Bulk Tin Ingot recipe, I know several people are looking, trying to find out what happened to it and other recipes. I am retaining these recipes with a tagline at the bottom saying they were removed from the game. Matthew.zellmer (talk)
- Maybe I am taking the wrong approach. There are a TON of components that need to be removed. I noticed you working on the metalsmith apprentice and other places. Looks great! Matthew.zellmer (talk)
- Most of the "component" recipes were (supposed to have been) removed from in-game. However, the USE of those components was retained. They are now purchased from Suppliers in the Crafting Halls. There is still a fair amount of confusion on the part of players on the issue because any components created and in inventory were left there as they did not change -- except for those (mostly T6) which DID change. And many of the recipes now have "two sources" for various "components" -- such as ingots -- which can be crafted from Ore or other Ingots.
- It's a toss-up what we do with them -- delete or annotate. Mainly because the issue is one of player education/knowledge/experience. I suspect that the learning curve will be pretty short.
You're my hero for adding all these guys recently. It's something that's always bugged me and I always meant to do, but never found myself getting around to it. Cheers, mate. :) Sethladan 17:11, 6 October 2013 (EDT)
Lol... don't like my blank column huh!
No big deal. I just felt that the "swift" column and the Region column need "visual space".
Tried using "Center" for the Region but that was simply "ugly" and hard to read; and "Right"is just as bad.
- You are right, it need a "visual space", but for me the "swift" column looked also ugly, so I changed it. Maybe a solution is Stable-master (Brown Lands)?
Note about transclusions
See my note to User_talk:Lotroadmin#An_observation_about_transclusions... Have you encountered that issue? Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 15:45, 13 October 2013 (EDT)
Weaponsmith Westemnet Recipe Index
lv100 - templates
Excellent idea! I think I will need quite a few templates - morale and power pools are the same for each "rank" of freep/creep NPCs, for example, all dwarven Sergeants-at-Arms have the same level, morale and power, but the elven sergeants have different ones. --Tharondir (talk) 19:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
On Deleting Spam Pages
Hi there! Before you delete a spam page, be sure to delete whatever is in the content box to make sure that the spam doesn't get copied back into the site. With your recent delete, the content of the spam page is still displayed (i.e. "...deleted page User talk:Fidelhooper (Spam: content was: Putting up Your own blah blah blah")). Starbursty (talk) 14:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I saw that you changed the quest chains Category:All that Remains Quests and Category:Treason Quests from an unnamed quest chain into a proper quest chain. I had done it that way at first but then I read a few things and from my interpretation of the rules of the wiki, those should be unnamed quest chains. See Category talk:Quest Chains#Not Real Quest Chains.
- I didn't care about the matter at all, I simply followed what was written; I still don't see any importance about it and as long as there is a list of the quests it will work for me.
- Maybe you could change it to the way I had it but also add the category. Anyway, it's up to you.
- Mogafi (talk) 02:18, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Osbenn and friends
Hiya! I moved Osbenn over to the page with just his name because that's how he's called in the game, not with all the title information and stuff, but never got to the other barter guys. Do you think it's better to have them all at the long page names like that? Sethladan 17:58, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Hey Barny, thanks for removing the pages I marked for deletion so quickly!
- No Problem. Thanks for helping in the wiki :-) Barny (talk) 15:12, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Fixed category:Pelargir Reputation Quests
I wanted to ask you: how did you fix this category? The template for all those quests I added automatically pointed to category:Pelargir_Reputation_Quests instead of category:Pelargir_(Faction)_Reputation_Quests. However, somehow they now point towards the proper category you mentioned after you removed the wrong one. How did you fix this? When I know it, I can do it myself in the future :)
- Not that I want to jump the gun on Barny, but when putting the Faction experience in, the only change was from "Pelargir" to "Pelargir (Faction)" --Ketrez (talk) 14:38, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
- Exactly! The problem started with West Gondor, where a City got the same name, then a Reputation Faction (Dol Amroth). See Talk:Dol Amroth (Faction) and Talk:Western Gondor. So the name of the Faction is "Dol Amroth (Faction)" and in Central Gondor the City also got the name Pelargir and the Faction Pelargir (Faction).
The icon mess
Hey Barny, I saw you have been cleaning up after me earlier today. Thanks for that! :)
I was wondering what you thought about what I have been doing with all the item icons, giving them generic names and placing them in the proper category. Do you think it is in any way helpful, or am I breaking way too much stuff? --Freepy (talk) 11:30, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- Hey Freepy, I like such categorising and I think it's very helpful. I made the same years ago, because we had the most icons twice or three times. Barny (talk) 11:46, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- Hey again. I think we've just about finished on all the leggings icons. I was wondering what your thoughts are about the icons that remain. They all seem to be one-offs by Turbine, so it doesn't really make sense to fit them in with the rest. I did find out that most of those types of icons belong to a certain instance cluster (Barad Guldur for instance). Would it be a good idea to make a special category page just for those so that they have their own little page? That way we can place all the similar icons for the different classes beside each other.
- I have no idea ;-).
- I would let them in this category and would make a own section (example instance) with the table of this items. There are also items in the subcategories (example pvmp, isengard, ...), who are not in a table, who also can add do this table.
- I don't now whats the best. Feel free and have a good idea ;-). Barny (talk) 09:21, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have been busy as you can see ;)
- I've been trying to group up all icons I could find, and have also moved all icons from the Legs Icons category to their proper subcategories, which should have been done a loooong time ago. I currently have them grouped up in my sandbox/WIP page User:Freepy/WIP. Please take a look at them, and tell me what you think about the idea of grouping the icons up like this.
- You may also notice that there still are quite a few 'loners' out there, even in some crafting recipes. This provides a problem...a big one. I am starting to think that the wiki is either incomplete, or that there are a lot of icons just floating around somewhere else where I haven't found them yet. Do you have a clue about where the missing icons might be? -- Freepy (talk) 22:51, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- Turbine, i.e. individual Devs, have fluctuated between budgeting and acquiring new artwork, and re-using old. This is compounded by the various layoffs over time at Turbine. With the possible exception of MadeOfLions, I don't know of any Devs who have been around since launch. Several times in recent history, there have been Devs who have launched upon various clean-up projects. . . only to disappear in the next round of layoffs.
- Today, I suspect, but don't know, that Art Assets are extremely expensive and budgets are not available to deal with their acquisition for "everyday items."
- As far as categories are concerned, there are only a few of us on the Wiki who actually care about them! So the best advice I can give is -- do whatever seems logical to you.
- The other comment I would make -- things have changed. Where there used to be unique and individual names for "everything," now there are "generic sets." And I suspect, but don't know that the original, unique Raid sets have mostly all been replaced by generic "level-based" sets. All related to the concept of "Scaling." The sets on your page Helegarod and BG, are two of the only "Non-scaling" instances left.
- Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 23:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
- I've made a big table with all the necessary info per icon. It should all be a lot clearer for everyone now. In addition, it's also easier to add new icons and to maintain them. At the moment I've only done it for Light Legs Icons, so you can check it out here: Category:Light Legs Icons --Freepy (talk) 19:26, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for cleaning up after me earlier today. I was going to ask how to get the icons, and now I also see the conversation with Freepy - bonus! :) Agathriel (talk) 15:33, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Westemnet Scholar Recipe
- No Problem. Mabe we should block the usercreation or the creation of new pages for new user for a while, if possible. Barny (talk) 22:33, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
- It becomes urgent to block user creation. I looked at the POST message when I block a fake user, and there is a field named wpEditToken with data such dee50101ab54a318f49a49f1c64115b9+\, so I don't think it can be done programmatically... --Castorix (talk) 15:31, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
- ...and the security method must be changed, "Please provide the character before the nth character" is too easy to automate. --Castorix (talk) 15:59, 21 January 2016 (UTC)