Template talk:Reward

Generic Icons

We need to update this template to reflect the new generic icons. Right now it is not pulling the icon perameter. Thief-taker's Bane... Rogue 11:25, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

How do these look User:Amphoras/Sandbox, User:Amphoras/Sandbox2, User:Amphoras/Sandbox3, User:Amphoras/Sandbox4? Probably still needs some modifying, and the icon list doesn't have much in it yet. Amphoras 18:23, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

Template:Item Tooltip has an "imlink" feature that's not really been used, but it's one of the reasons we do mode={{{mode}}} for all the items. This could be used to "pull" the icons from the item page, like Rogue said - take another look at Thief-taker's Bane and see if that does the trick. Sethladan 23:44, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

That looks like a much better way to do it, especially as only the template will need changing. Amphoras 09:05, 6 May 2011 (EDT)

Okidoke, updated! Feel free to roll it back if anything weird happens. Sethladan 18:21, 6 May 2011 (EDT)

Scratch that, need to work on it a little more...all the reward lists in quest use bulleted lists and imlink doesn't play nicely with Mediawiki's formatting. More testing, hmm... Sethladan 18:23, 6 May 2011 (EDT)

Should work now - found a rogue line break in Template:Item Tooltip that made things jump out of the bulleted lists. Sethladan 16:03, 8 May 2011 (EDT)

Reward amount

Just found this nice template, are you planning to implement also an amount value into it... the same as we did with deeds?? So you get someting like {{Reward|Silver Arnorian Coin|3}} resulting in an icon with a small 3 in the corner. Take a look at the Deed-template for how we made it. --Tiberivs (talk) 11:35, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

It should be possible. The imlink part already makes use of the Icon template which is what adds the small 3. It might be possible to do it with arg, or might have to add an extra changeable parameter. Will need to think if using arg could break other stuff first. Amphoras (talk) 11:50, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

Ok, this should be available now. Will use the same syntax as you suggested, {{Reward|Silver Arnorian Coin|3}}. Need to add the amount parameter to all the Item pages before it will show up, but I will try and do that tomorrow. Amphoras (talk) 18:58, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

Nice, this looks great... goin to use it ofc for all new quests :-) (and there are lots to come with RoI) --Tiberivs (talk) 10:24, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

Just gave it a test on Quest:Return Their Filth, there maybe a minor bug.... only the last reward on the page shows the amount in the icon --Tiberivs (talk) 10:31, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

The bot is currently running to add the amount parameter to the items. There's quite a lot of them, so it will take a while until its added it to all the pages. Both the ones on that quest page seem to be working now. Amphoras (talk) 10:41, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

Ok, that should be all the pages updated now. Let me know if you find any that don't work and I can try and see why it missed them. "12159 pages were changed"... Amphoras (talk) 13:15, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

IE issues

Partially c&p and continued from here.

What do you see on testwiki's colour page? It should look similiar to this one. What browser / OS do you use? --EoD 11:49, 6 June 2011 (EDT)

Ah-ha. I can see why you were confused, because that second image does look readable. However, I don't see any shadows behind the text on a plain page, even on the testwiki page. I use IE8 and Vista. But I also occasionally use a computer w/XP and I can't swear to it, but I don't believe I see shadows then, either. Which is decidedly strange . . . hmmm. Rubyctook 11:58, 6 June 2011 (EDT)

Oh my god, Microsoft doesn't implement most of the CSS3 in IE9, not to mention IE8. I could ...

...either remove the shadow and add it via javascript on supported browser - I don't like the idea
...add a different/similar effect on IE via javascript - requires IE to have JS enabled
...ignore IE users :p

I'll think about it... --EoD 12:18, 6 June 2011 (EDT)[/blockquote]

I found part of the discussion, and in the logical place! Thought I should move this here, maybe someone else can think of some other possible solutions? I'm afraid I haven't thought of anything more. (Oh, and I did test it on IE9, and just like the dev website says, no CSS3, no shadows.) The second option listed didn't work for me last time I tried it, I'll try it again later at work. Rubyctook (talk) 12:02, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

Starbursty asked me about the problems with numbers running off the icons here and I was able to come up with a pretty good ~~User:Sethladan/Sandbox2|fix~~ (I think). Unfortunately, it doesn't work - at least for me - in IE 8.0, WinXP, either. That said, using {{Icon}} to put numbers in the rewards here should work (in all browsers?) with the current version of {{Icon}} since this template doesn't use a table, which is what causes the issue Starbursty pointed out to me. The challenge would be figuring out where to insert that code - {{Reward}} calls ~~tlink|Item~~ which calls each respective item as a template, which call {{Item Tooltip}}, which is a headache to edit. Sethladan (talk) 12:40, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

Now that the default is "no colours", there should be less issues with colours. --EoD (talk) 21:36, 11 October 2011 (EDT)

Note: {{Reward}} doesn't call ~~tlink|Item~~. --EoD (talk) 12:07, 14 December 2011 (EST)

Recycling this section as it is about colouring. While walking over quests with a mix of rewards and other treats which are linkified, I think the mix of coloured links and plain links look bad, true stains on our shiny wiki pages.

Would anybody be really sad if we simply remove this feature? The other way around would be to dig up those places using the parameter C= and visually decided whether to remove or let it stay.

When I first begun editing I thought they were cool. But at that time I didn't come across many mixes, I do now and regret I begun to use them. However, I will not do anything rash but hear everybody's opinions.

-- Zimoon 09:12, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

Why didn't you start a new discussions? Don't see any mentioning of IE here ;)

I'd appreciate to keep the feature and collecting all pages which make use of the colour feature is either do-able by adding the pages to a temporary category or just by crawling over it by my bot (and handing you the list).

--EoD (talk) 18:55, 14 April 2012 (EDT)

I do not like the appearance of coloured links. If we could just colour the link text, it might not look too bad, but since we have to work with differing backgrounds due to skins, we ended up using the drop-shadow effect to make the coloured links readable. It makes the pages look like the work of someone who has just discovered font effects. For what it's worth, I support presenting links in default text colours. Let the browser do any visited/unvisited colouring according to user preferences. The tooltip, when shown, will indicate the quality of the item anyway.

I support ignoring the "c=" parameter for now, and cleaning up with a bot later. RingTailCat (talk) 01:02, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

Actually, in many cases (if not almost all cases) the icon background conveys the very same information. So far 2 against 2 for disabling it ;-) -- Zimoon 05:42, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

Tooooo many indents -- popping back up. -- I also agree that use of Quality coloring is greatly overblown, and (I am fairly certain) not even 100% accurate. Some of the uses in-game make no sense at all, and I'm of the opinion that they more often describe "Level" rather than "Quality." I had just "cleaned up" the usage of "Colour" on the Rewards template, when Zimoon pointed out this discussion. It's always fascinating how editing a long dormant page will suddenly bring issues with that page out into open discussion again. :)

So, I'm in agreement, the Colour parameter can go. It does look quite sophomoric as RTC points out. (And represents one less parameter to deal with.)Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 16:59, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

The discussion seems over, but just doing a quick search, IE8 doesn't support text-shadow, but it supports other things that can do the same (or at least similar) job.

Gwenwyfar (talk) 14:27, 20 November 2012 (EST)

In the end it was not inly the IE issues but also how it might end up visually. For simple and lower level quests it was often kind of a nice flair, but it did not take much to make the visual appearance a horrible mess. Today I would vote against it, and since the hover-over tooltip conveys coloured names etc., I guess that is enough. -- Zimoon 16:38, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Numbers not showing

The numbers aren't showing again! (Chrome, XP) -- Starbursty (talk) 08:09, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

Apparently this has something to do with Template:Tooltip. I can have a look into it later, I guess someone forgot to port the code for the numbering. --EoD (talk) 08:58, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

Should be fixed now, I must have put a }} in the wrong place on test wiki and it got copied over. Amphoras (talk) 14:21, 8 October 2011 (EDT)

Problems with recipe & text wrapping

I don't know if it's already been reported somewhere else, but when using a recipe with this template, the recipe tooltip is entirely displayed, is there a way to avoid that?

Also, would it be possible to have text of "Reward" & "Quest Rep" to wrap on at least 2 lines to the right of the icon, when squeezed in a table? This is the actual display:

Item	Cost
Shire Porridge Recipe	5
Exceptional Sage's Sharp Chisel of Lightning	5
Quest Rep\|The Wardens of Annúminas\|700\|doc=y	112

And this is what I've mostly been doing until now, with a column apart for the icon and the column for the display of the text:

	Item	Cost
	Shire Porridge Recipe	5
	Exceptional Sage's Sharp Chisel of Lightning	5
	Increased standing with Wardens of Annuminas (700)	112

Thanks for any advice! :) --Goingbald (talk) 01:22, 31 October 2011 (EDT)

That's the official version now. Not sure what's going wrong in the reward template. --EoD (talk) 06:28, 31 October 2011 (EDT)

I had an idea and it seems to be fixed (actually that "fix" should be removed as soon as possible from Template:Recipe). --EoD (talk) 16:00, 31 October 2011 (EDT)

Broken Template for Items with TP price

At least that is my guess. This {{Reward|Talisman of the Raven Recipe}} causes this

Talisman of the Raven Recipe
Also template Lootbox is affected, maybe more.
-- Zimoon 17:07, 15 November 2011 (EST)

Fixed. Some noob called BoD put the onlyinclude tags in the wrong place :P. Amphoras (talk) 17:34, 15 November 2011 (EST)

Thanks, I looked at the diff and realize that if a bot could cause this much problem the bot-owner should now ensure that nothing of that batch is broken. Not so many items seems to be affected what I can see. Whatever, some ways:

Analyse what is the exact error was and try to create a fix that a bot can run only for that particular situation.
Obtain the union of bot-edits and items that has TP-price (assuming that is the problem, otherwise find what caused this issue). Then fix each of these manually.
Generate a looooooooooooooong list of {{Reward:item}} for each and every item in game. Visually find items that are broken ... yeah, a lot of scrolling but eyes are amazing at spotting irregularities.

To be honest, I have found that over the recent months some minor changes in templates have caused far reaching changes that I guess what not anticipated. Example: something is changed in the Rewards template so now no quests show the coloured name but editors must manually add c=yes. This is a regression bug in my world, a change that takes something aback or reverts a previous improvement. I do not complain but a little more testing would be great. -- Zimoon 17:58, 15 November 2011 (EST)

Re: The Rewards template change, the text shadows don't show up in IE, so a decision was made to disable colors except when explicitly desired. Otherwise, common items disappeared. Sethladan 19:01, 15 November 2011 (EST)

So now we should not use 'c=yes'? Then I have erred. -- Zimoon 02:23, 16 November 2011 (EST)

At a second though (now going outside the original scope of this topic), why not making the template work as it did before and the fix would be to not add shadowed text for common items and common only? But all types > common as before? Zimoon 07:53, 16 November 2011 (EST)

Nothing wrong with using c=yes - it's there so we can make things pretty if needed. :) Having the colors enabled for all qualities except common would look a little silly, and perhaps confusing for someone scrolling down a list and not understanding why some items were colored and some were just in normal blue font. I use Chrome 99.9% of the time and never have trouble seeing the colors, so I can't tell you when it's best to avoid using it, but common items on a white background is definitely a no-no. Quest and Item pages (I think?) have a slightly blue-tinted background, so colors may show up better there for viewers who can't see shadows. Sethladan 14:42, 16 November 2011 (EST)

Full Name versus In-game Name

Looking at diff https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php?title=Item:Gift_for_an_Adept&curid=72095&diff=380761&oldid=337395 I notice that for same name items the Reward template will display the full name of the article, not the name as it read in-game. For the potions in the diff the item icons are correct but the names read something that is not visible in-game. This is not a serious issue really but more of a "what does a visitor expects to see" thingie.

So, the question is: What name do we want to display via the reward template? The article name? Or the in-game name?

In a wider perspective the question will be: What name do we want to display via any template that displays something where we use an article name different than the in-game name?

Discussion only, no suggestions nor advice given ;) Zimoon 08:03, 16 November 2011 (EST)

From what I recall, those potions actually are called "~ (Tier 3)" and so on. For the most part, though, an item should appear to be named as it is in-game, even if the pagename has some sort of disambiguation. Thus, Item:Helm of the Aurochs (Item Level 50) is just named "Helm of the Aurochs." I think {{Reward}} takes information from the |name parameter of an item when deciding what to display, if that helps at all.
As a side note, sometimes it's useful/necessary to point out which version of an item is being discussed. For example, at the end of Rallying Cry, I make a point to include the (Level 50)/(Level 60)/(Level 65) on the armour set links. Make the article suit the needs of the reader, I suppose. :) Sethladan 14:38, 16 November 2011 (EST)

Left-aligned icon Question

When using the Reward template (I guess any Item template but have not tried) and the name of the item is broken over two or more lines it looks like this (if I manage to get it across):

+-+
+-+ Example item
with long name

I believe that if the icon used align="left" (as in [[File:iconname.png|left]]) it would rather look like

+-+ Example item
+-+ with long name

However, I have not meddled with these templates so I would be happy if somebody had a look at this. Currently this template cannot be used inside narrow info-boxes if the name is longer that just a few characters 8-)
Zimoon 13:38, 26 January 2012 (EST)

Icon name not equalling item name breaks template

If the name of the item icon does not equal the item itself this template is broken. See Gredlan Mugwort and his Item:Violet for an example. I cannot fix this right now, this bug is up for grabs (or cortect my misunderstanding if that is the case). -- Zimoon 16:16, 25 May 2012 (EDT)

This template (Template:Reward) was fixed a while ago. It is the Template:Barter that is still wrong.

For example:

Violet and for all other items where there is an icon name collision.
Heavy Sword Sheath and for all other items which use generic icons.

RingTailCat (talk) 17:34, 25 May 2012 (EDT)

Stupid me!!! Did I go post this at the wrong talk-page having several open at the same time?? Silly me. Spanking time! -- Zimoon 18:02, 25 May 2012 (EDT)

Template Item vs Template Reward

The ~~Template:Item~~ is tagged to be merged with Template:Reward

It is now completely unused (except for a couple of talk pages).

(I just converted the two "production" pages that used it to Reward.)

So I tagged it for Delete.

Anybody object? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magill (Contribs • User Talk).

Only use for Template:Item that I can see at the moment is that it allows the option to link the item without the icon, but since plain wikilinks generate the popup without problems and the consensus is to avoid colored links, I can't find any reason to keep it around for that. Seconded for deleting Template:Item. (I'd do it myself, but Amph, EoD, or RTC might know/remember something I don't.) Sethladan 20:49, 14 June 2012 (EDT)

Amount reads Faintly

Am I a the only one that think the overlay number from the amount parameter is somewhat too weak or faint? I see it is there but I could not say it is always easy to read. Just skimming a page I would say it is "not there" as it is too weak to grab my eyes attention. Is it possible to make it more "intrusive"? As in whiter/brighter? To stand out more?

I guess that from a readability point of view we should not have the number at the icon but in the generated link. That is what the Barter template does. But that is another story of course.
-- Zimoon 03:16, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Don't worry; you're not the only one, heh. With the number overlay, it's always been a sort of struggle between what "looks cool" and what's most useful. Because of the different colors on all the icons all over the place, it's probably impossible to find one color that's 100% easy to see. This is complicated by the fact that the Icon template uses text-shadow, which is CSS3 and thus not widely implemented by IE or older versions of other browsers. Without the shadow, the numbers certainly become even harder to see. Does that mean we should scrap the overlay altogether? I dunno. But it looks so nice. :-P Sethladan 11:52, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Can't say I've ever noticed an issue, but then I've always used the latest version of Safari, and I use a high-resolution 27 inch monitor (iMac). I've always been able to see the "Common" (shaded white) lettering while others have not. The overlay does make scanning reward boxes "easier," but I don't know if they are really relevant in other places (like recipes for example). Of course, the definition of "White" (or whatever the default color is) is obviously paramount. Anytime one strays from the original "browser safe 7 colors" the end results do become less and less predictable -- potentially prettier, but less predictable. :)

One wonders, when confronted by questions like this, what kind of "scan" features are available on the Wiki -- i.e:

Grep -i {{Rewards | sort | unique

to see what kind of targets are the most common, etc. -- don't know if it is worth all that much effort with other things to do.

--Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 15:57, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Yeah, perhaps it is not much of a problem when it is in quest rewards, I hardly "skim" those. And when in other types of lists I guess we use plural and type the amount anyway, unless we use the barter template. But now is just it, somebody must have thought the tw of these templates were really called for, but essentially both tries to do exactly the same job: present an icon and a link for an item. And some features for icon at left or right side, as well as float-icon left, right or not at all. Perhaps that is next task, merge these two to one template? -- Zimoon 16:54, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Just looking at my bags in-game, being a pack-rat, I keep "lots" of crap. "Everything" has the count in white independent of the icon colors. And yes, there are a couple which are somewhat more difficult to read compared to others. Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 19:11, 15 June 2012 (EDT)

Personally, I would say a padding should help with that. There is basically none, the numbers are glued to the corner and that - at least for me - makes it harder to notice/read. It would be nice if we could have the same padding we see in the game.

Gwenwyfar (talk) 12:29, 22 September 2012 (EDT)

Fate of the Coloring Option

I'm going to try and work this template into Template:Crafting to cut down on the need to manually specify every icon, but this means using the c=yes feature of Template:Reward. Whatever the fate of this template and its cousin Template:Barter, I'm putting this note here to make sure we keep the coloring. Thanks! Sethladan 10:10, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

Please be careful not to eliminate the ability to override the default icon in the crafting template. RingTailCat (talk) 10:15, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

My objective is to pull the icon directly from the item's page so that we shouldn't need to override the icon, but I definitely won't change the template itself (currently testing on ~~User:Sethladan/Sandbox~~) without feedback since it's kind of a major template. Thanks for keeping tabs on me. ;) Sethladan 10:26, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

One of the problems occurs when the item of interest has not yet been created. We can put in the right generic icon, which often is more likely to exist, even though the item itself has not been created. I have been observing that there are still some farmer items (crops mostly) which have not been created close to a year after their appearance with Rise of Isengard. Having the template fail nicely is better than having it fail messily. Two cases to watch for are missing item, and item missing an icon. RingTailCat (talk) 11:06, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

Good points, and definitely valid argument for keeping the override functionality. I would rather see people click through and add incomplete/stubbed items, but I understand that it's less work when quickly adding recipes to just copy and paste generic icons. Sethladan 11:26, 30 July 2012 (EDT)

Issue with -

Not sure if this was made intentionally or not (And I don't see why it would be made intentionally either, the easiest way to do overlays is simply make the text go over the image, and text can be anything, right?), but it is not possible to insert - into the amount (I was trying to insert 1-10, to use reward in the farming resources pages). I also mistook reward with barter and tried inserting "1-10 fair xx crop" thinking it would be replaced with text like barter, and an error came out saying "Expression error: Unrecognised word "fair"". Inserting text is not the intended use, of course, but this error could perhaps give a hint as to why it is not possible ti insert "-". Gwenwyfar (talk) 13:27, 20 November 2012 (EST)

I would like to suggest that putting a lot of info into the icon overlay on the wiki is a bad idea. Compare the in-game icons-with-number-overlay to the icons-with-number-overlay on the wiki. In-game, there is a mask around the number, while the wiki directly overlays the number on the icon image. The result is that the in-game overlayed icons are much more readable than the wiki overlayed icons.

The Template:Barter gives a nice, clear result. Unfortunately, at this time, Barter calculates the icon file name, unless the icon parameter is give, while Reward asks the item to display its icon.

-- RingTailCat (talk) 14:05, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Personally, I still think the wiki overlay readability issue lies in part with its positioning. It is too close to the borders. It might also be improved by changing the colors slightly, since most Lotro icons are darker in color, a completely black shadow around it doesn't help too much, while in lighter icons it might be better, there aren't many of them (But maybe this has nothing to do with color, I don't know, I had made overlays in another wiki and they worked very well with rarely any icon that was harder to read, with white and black).

Gwenwyfar (talk) 14:22, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Proposed Chages

Working on making Reward/Barter/Other Outputs consistent and integrated (and thereby making Template:Reward and Template:Barter redundant in the process?)

Besides Float= and Plural= keywords, what it the difference between the two? - see comparison at Template talk:Barter#Barter vs. Reward

1- add parameter "Float=" as in Template: Barter - Make float Left standard? (I agree with the Barter talk page argument.)

2- Allow the amount field to have a comma","

2- Make "Plural=" positional and become "rename"

Issues.

I don't know enough about template logic to know if this is "easy".

This might take extensive botting, which at the present time is beyond my ken. While I have a bot working, I am not confident in its operation.

Presently:

{{Reward|<name> [|amount] [| plural=plural-name] }}

Ideally, change to:

{{Reward|<name> [|amount] [| rename] }}

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 00:01, 14 August 2013 (EDT)

bug -- parens cause problems

In order to get this to display correctly:

Landscape Soldier Token (20-45)

One must use: {{Reward|Landscape Soldier Token (20-45)|plural=Landscape Soldier Token (20-45)}}

The expected syntax: {{Reward|Landscape Soldier Token (20-45)}} -- truncates (does not display) the levels in the parens.

Landscape Soldier Token

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 11:24, 2 November 2013 (EDT)

Bug - & # 3 9 ; syntax causes parse failure

See: Item:Bingo's Empty Hatrack and Item:Bingo's Hatrack, The Shire

Found an interesting bug in the Reward template.

If one uses the "Bingo's" - Bingo & # 3 9; s - syntax, the template does not parse correctly.

This syntax is easily acquired by using "subst:PAGENAME" to "fill-in the blank" when creating the page.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 09:20, 23 July 2015 (UTC)