Template talk:Recipe
Recipe Template Update
This is not in affect as of yet. I would like to ask those who will be using this template and those who are familiar with recipe tooltips to comment on any additions / order / changes needed. Basically this is a cut version of the Template:Item Tooltip with changes to reflect what was needed (and not needed as was the case).
The following additions from the old include:
- Faction standings
- Single Use
- Cooldown
--Rogue 01:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I like it.... the automatic determination of the icon is cool, plus this will help to keep recipes a bit more consistent. Overall I'm totally in favor of creating more of these type-specific tooltip templates rather than having one monolithic tooltip to cover everything. --Gaerlin 03:07, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Good, So I changed the code of recipe and crafting on the project:Crafting page for us to copy/paste. Rogue 03:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Template Not Functioning
This template is functioning to a degree, but somewhere we have a problem. As anyone who views the recipe pages with this template can see it is adding the Crafting template inside the Recipe template and everything typed after that. This should not be happening. Also, if there is no worth given then this recipe does not show on the article at all, this also needs fixed. If anyone could PLEASE take a look and fix this template it would be GREATLY appreciated! Rogue 20:26, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- Combining Template:Item Tooltip with Template:Crafting works fine. I'm a total noob with templates so I won't try to solve this riddle, but maybe a comparison of Template:Item Tooltip and Template:Recipe could help. Orions 21:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- Please do NOT use Template:Item Tooltip for recipes. There is a reason for that, simply put.. we have our own and we can manipulate it how we need it as recipe and item tooltips are somewhat different. Rogue 21:51, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- I have reverse-engineered (nice word for just deleting lines at random :P) the Template:Item Tooltip into the Template:Recipetest. It seems to be working ok. Several items are using it atm:Item:Barley Soup Recipe, Item:Baked Flounder Recipe and Item:Superb Amulet of the Frost-lynx Recipe. I'm just not yet confident enough to replace it, but feel free to nit-pick :P Orions 23:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- I did replace the template with your recipetest, there was 1 section (or couple lines) that you missed (the profession and faction lines) but I added those back in and the template works as intended. Great Job and Thank You!!! Rogue 00:25, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
- I have reverse-engineered (nice word for just deleting lines at random :P) the Template:Item Tooltip into the Template:Recipetest. It seems to be working ok. Several items are using it atm:Item:Barley Soup Recipe, Item:Baked Flounder Recipe and Item:Superb Amulet of the Frost-lynx Recipe. I'm just not yet confident enough to replace it, but feel free to nit-pick :P Orions 23:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- Please do NOT use Template:Item Tooltip for recipes. There is a reason for that, simply put.. we have our own and we can manipulate it how we need it as recipe and item tooltips are somewhat different. Rogue 21:51, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Template Improvement Discussion
See User talk:Zimoon#Categories for reputation items for some background.
Today the Recipe template does as some other template, it adds to a category at a very high level. The Category:Recipe Items has today a couple of thousands of recipes, neatly listed in alphabetic order, but that is about it: A to Z. No other system is found. This category is under Cat:Profession Items, which may be OK as only professions may use recipes, however...
A specific recipe, say Item:Hobbit Keg Decoration Recipe is also under Cat:Cook Recipes and under Cat:Cook Items (plus Cat:Uncommon Items but that is OK). Already here my gut feelings begin to mourn, however, it does not stop here. Hence, let me tell the category-chains with XX as a cook recipe:
XX --> Cat:Cook Items ----+
|
XX --> Cat:Recipe Items --+--> Cat:Profession Items --> Cat:Items --+--> Cat:Lotro
|
XX --> Cat:Cook Recipes --> Cat:Crafting Recipes --> Cat:Crafting --+
Notice that Cat:Recipe Items contains recipes for ALL professions.
Let me ask/suggest/whatever:
I think the following chain would simplify a lot and still provide exactly the same fine graded groups:
XX --> Cat:Cook TIER-Y Recipes --> Cat:Cook Recipes --+--> Cat:Recipe Items --> Cat:Profession Items --> Cat:Items
| |
+--> Cat:Crafting Recipes --> Cat:Crafting ------------+--> Cat:Lotro
In the above a recipe goes into just one recipe category, category for tier is added, automatic grouping on tier which we do not have today. All other categories would not contain a silly bunch of recipe items but they will indeed contain informative sub-categories. (Categories other than recipe may of course exist, such as faction, Common/Uncommon/... etc., but that is another animal and not touched upon here.)
The above is also fully backwards compatible, it just requires a few existing categories to be rewired a bit, that is all.
This all begun when I found that I could not easily add Item:Hobbit Keg Decoration Recipe to Cat:The Mathom Society Items. I have not dug deep into the templates, there may be some parameter to use, but I found that this recipes was added to no less than 3 categories and as you see above that is 2 too many ;)
Looking forward to your bashing and/or praise :) Zimoon 03:42, 5 March 2012 (EST)
- Going into game it seems that the "type" parameter is not displayed, at least not nothing reads "Recipe" while hovering over a recipe in the inventory. The leads me to think the developers maybe have changed the display, or we have wrongly have added "Recipe" to the "type" parameter, which today is what adds to the Recipes category. Clarification necessary, please. And possibly a bot-run that removes all "Recipe" from "type".
- NEXT: I think we should add this: {{ #if:{{{faction|}}}|[[Category:{{{faction}}} Items]] }} to the Recipe template. Objections?
- Zimoon 04:04, 5 March 2012 (EST)
- I perceive an attempt to develop a single tree to categorize an recipe. I believe this strategy is doomed to failure. This is the classification system used in libraries, see for instance, the Dewey Decimal System and the Library of Congress classification. Essentially, these systems define a single gigantic tree and every book is classified into a single leaf in this tree. You get classifications like
- literature -> fiction -> science fiction -> 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
- and
- literature -> French literature -> French fiction -> French science fiction -> Vingt mille lieues sous les mers
- and as you add additional translations, you replicate the tree for each language.
- liturature -> German literature -> German fiction -> German science fiction -> 20.000 Meilen unter dem Meer
- I perceive an attempt to develop a single tree to categorize an recipe. I believe this strategy is doomed to failure. This is the classification system used in libraries, see for instance, the Dewey Decimal System and the Library of Congress classification. Essentially, these systems define a single gigantic tree and every book is classified into a single leaf in this tree. You get classifications like
- An alternate method for classification uses multiple facets to describe an object. For this same book, we would have
- literature -> fiction -> science fiction -> 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
- literature -> fiction -> science fiction -> Vingt mille lieues sous les mers
- literature -> fiction -> science fiction -> 20.000 Meilen unter dem Meer
- and
- language -> English -> 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
- language -> French -> Vingt mille lieues sous les mers
- language -> German -> 20.000 Meilen unter dem Meer
- An alternate method for classification uses multiple facets to describe an object. For this same book, we would have
- Or, inverting my ordering to more closely match Zimoon's:
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea --+
|
Vingt mille lieues sous les mers --+
|
20.000 Meilen unter dem Meer --+-- science fiction --+-- fiction --+-- literature
- and
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea --+ English --+
|
Vingt mille lieues sous les mers --+ French --+
|
20.000 Meilen unter dem Meer --+ German --+-- language
- but now, lets add another classification for original language vs translation
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea --+
|
20.000 Meilen unter dem Meer --+ translation --+
|
Vingt mille lieues sous les mers --+ original --+-- authoring language
- In order to add this additional information into the original single tree would require extensive modifications to the tree.
- Now consider how we would add a book like the Polish novel Solaris by Stanslaw Lew and its translations into the two classification methods. In the traditional library scheme, you replicate the entire literature tree modifying the language. In the multi-faceted scheme, you add another language in the tree of languages.
- This system works nicely for arranging your books on a shelf but keeps librarians busy helping folk find the books they want.
- Using this kind of a multi-faceted classification system here, we would use pages containing a Dynamic Page List instead of a sub-category. A recipe might get classified by its item type, by its profession, by its tier, by its faction relationship.
- A recipe like Item:Golden Host Coat Recipe would fall into Category:Recipe Items, Category:Tailor Items, Category:Rare Items ( as it does now ), and also into new categories Category:Malledhrim and Category:Tier 6 Recipes.
- Instead of attempting to directly categorize the item to a multitude of sub-categories, this scheme enables the dynamic creation of multiple lists:
<DynamicPageList> category = cat1 category = cat2 category = cat3 shownamespace = false </DynamicPageList>
- Instead of pre-building a category for tier 6 tailor recipes, we use something like
<DynamicPageList> category = Tailor Items category = Tier 6 Recipes shownamespace = false </DynamicPageList>
- And if we want the Malledhrim related tailor recipes:
<DynamicPageList> category = Tailor Items category = Malledhrim shownamespace = false </DynamicPageList>
- Or if we want only the Malledhrim tier 6 ones:
<DynamicPageList> category = Tailor Items category = Malledhrim category = Tier 6 Recipes shownamespace = false </DynamicPageList>
- So, on a category page that lists massive numbers of results, we could provide a selection of links to narrower "categories" which are implemented using Dynamic Page Lists, instead of by modifying many items to put them into sub-categories.
- Simple classification into several small trees can be (and are) easily performed by the templates.
- RingTailCat (talk) 07:28, 5 March 2012 (EST)
- No, not a single tree. There may still be yet other categories, such as for faction, common/rare/..., and I can think of categories we do not have added yet such as "trail food recipes", "cooked food recipes", "looted items", ..., (if that would ever be interesting, just phony example here). But as long as the "characteristic" of the item item is just "being a recipe" it is quite easy to simplify the "tree" into being less straggling (is that a good word?). And de-populating those several-thousands big categories somewhat. They are not really helpful.
- I will read your literature example again once at home, I am somewhat of a library fan, but now I'm at work and just a few minutes to spend here ;)
- Zimoon 07:58, 5 March 2012 (EST)
- RTC, I am well aware of the library systems, having spent hundreds of hours in these serene halls, but I frown at the comparison; a recipe comes in just one language ;) Notice that in my tentative tweak there are parallel trajectories, still serving different purposes. Library catalog systems do not have that, as you also notice. Libraries are, on the other hand, adding "keywords" to each book (often independent of translations) that are more database search friendly, that way overcoming inflexibilities in their arcane system.
- Too often we put everything in a huge container and run away and forget about whether that is useful or not. The common visitor don't do dynamic lists, and we don't have editors enough to create enough of each possible use case. Then it is better to let templates narrow down where it makes sense. This change is not too fussy I think, a few categories per profession to re-wire. But there will still be different categories for various and wanted purposes, just not two 100% equal but in different lanes. Right?
- Zimoon 13:15, 5 March 2012 (EST)
- This is the suggested improvement (add to "profession" if exists else to Recipes):
{{#if: {{{profession|}}} | [[Category:{{{profession}}} Recipes|{{PAGENAME}}]]
| [[Category:Recipe Items|{{PAGENAME}}]] }}
- Rewire a few categories. Done.
- This is the old code:
[[Category:Recipe Items|{{PAGENAME}}]]
{{#if: {{{profession|}}} | [[Category:{{{profession}}} Items|{{PAGENAME}}]] [[Category:{{{profession}}} Recipes|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}
- Zimoon 12:31, 6 March 2012 (EST)
As a first step I have applied this edit and I will rewire some categories which will result in the following:
Recipe X --+--> Cat:Y Recipes --> Cat:Crafting Recipes --+--> Cat:Profession Items --+--> Cat:Items -----\
| | +--> Cat:Lotro
+---------------------------+--> Cat:Crafting --/
Note: Recipes are Items per definition (a "learned recipe" is also a crafting ability), hence we can remove the early-on categories for them and wire them into Items later in the chain.
Zimoon 09:41, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
Wikifying causes loss of color
If one inserts [[ ]] around a parameter, that paramter's color designation is lost (i.e. converted, typically, to white).
One assumes this to be either a contrasting or complimentary color - Media Wiki normally changes the colors of links depending upon if they have been accessed or not.)
This line:
- Faction/Guild Requirement -->{{#if:{{{faction|}}}|<li style="color: red">Requires: {{{standing}}} Standing with {{{faction}}} }}<!--
works as expected ... The entire line is displayed in red: Requires:<faction> Standing with <faction>
However this does not.
- Faction/Guild Requirement -->{{#if:{{{faction|}}}|<li style="color: red">Requires: {{{standing}}} Standing with [[{{{faction}}}]] }}<!--
the <faction> is displayed in white. Requires:<faction> Standing with <faction>.
This is true if you insert the [[ ]] in the template or in the "target" use of the template.
Note for future revision
This template should implement {{Tooltip}}. Sethladan 21:47, 3 August 2014 (UTC)