Template talk:Item Tooltip/archive

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This is Archive 1

See Create new item to create a new item.
See Boilerplate:Item for a clean template and other options.


Problem with Type

When placing something under type, it not only creates the category (which is what we want it to do), it also tries to create a page for what's listed there (which is not what we want). I only noticed this because I was glancing under wanted pages and noticed a bunch with the items I have been creating (recognizing the category or type I've been listing). Can we get this fixed? An example is: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Special:Whatlinkshere/Necklace. Clicking on any of the "what links here" pages you will see that Necklace is supposed to be the type (category) and not it's own page. Necklace Items category is correct, but the Necklace in the tooltip should not be linking to it's own page.. maybe it's supposed to be linking to the category? OR not linked at all.... Rogue 10:01, 8 December 2008 (PST)


Items rewarded for multiple quests.

  • Does the code need to be adjusted to accomodate Items that are rewarded for multiple quests? i.e. Item:Simple_Rations.
    • Here's an example of how I handle added information like Quest Rewards: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Item:Rowan_Wood. As you can see I add the heading and something like "This is a quest reward from the following quests:" then under it list the quests.
  • Also, how do you get the templates to line up under each other? see Item:Cloth_Gloves
    • They cannot. I was told that for the tooltip template to function correctly (seeing the template on another page like the recipe pages for example) there can be only 1 to an item page. No more than that. For multiple items of the same name I would use https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php instead. Understand that this template is obsolete and should only be used in those circumstances. To farther explain this, if say on the recipe page I have the tooltip for Leather Leggings and there's more than 1 tooltip on that page it will not show me anything but an error, which of course is bad. Rogue 07:06, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Should a "| crafted =" field be added to this template? see the last item in Item:Leather_Leggings Uloria 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Crafted items should be on it's own page with the tooltip template and never the other. If a crafted item has the same name as normal items then I would create the page like so: [[Item:Leather Leggings (Crafted)]].. Here's an example: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Item:Silver_Ring vs https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Item:Silver_Ring_(Crafted). Now with the silver ring page I did use the tooltip template which should probably be changed as there are several versions.. but the text I wrote and the link to the silver ring (crafted) would remain as a link to the crafted vs the normal...
      • If you haven't noticed from my cluster of edits/new pages for the crafting items I have been updating those items from the old item template to the new tooltip. Also, I have been updating the recipe pages as I go along as well and from the look of the leather leggings page, I haven't been over the tailor index yet.. but don't worry I'll get there. I hope that answers your questions, so the real answer is, no the template doesn't need to change. Happy editing! Rogue 07:06, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
        • OK I'll copy over any crafting items I see to new pages.
        • Does the "|qitem=" field need to be in the template, or should any quest be simply given under an added heading.
          • |qitem is there if you choose to use it, however I have not. So, if you decide to use that line in the tooltip then go for it and use the heading instead if there's more than 1 quest that applies. Rogue 17:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
        • On pages like Item:Cloth_Gloves, I could add just one tooltip template for quest items, leaving the other templates be. (I also remembered the {{clear}} command to make things line up)
            • Works for me, and thanks for the info, I didn't know about clear. Rogue 17:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
        • The template I'm using is the one on this page, but I moved the fields around to be in the approximate order they are in on the tooltip, as well as grouping weapon- and on-use- related fields together. I also added notes that I would need, such as for the field "Prof", which could mean anything.
          • Alrighty, but if that's how it is in-game (different order of things, then perhaps I should change it on the template to match? Also if you could delete your notes before saving that would make the article size smaller (less text). I generally delete the notes on the quest one (leaving it more neat and smaller file size). Rogue 17:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
        • I take it the "Category" fields are only to be used if "Type" and "Slot" are not given?
        • Uloria 16:37, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
          • I typically avoid the category fields unless I have a special category in the crafted categories that do not imply. Otherwise the type and slot fields generate their own categories and add items to it.. example |type=Component puts it into Category:Component Items.. so I didn't bother putting component into Category as well cause then I'd have both Component and Component Items to worry about.. If you want to help "clean up" the category structure please feel free. Just make sure you ask one of the admins before any major changes.. I tried once upon a time to talk them (before I was one) to get rid of "items" and make it more like the AH but never got anywhere and they said something like too much work and it's working now so why change it.. So I gave up and went with it getting rid of duplicate categories.. there were 3 different ones in the Items category for Jewellery.. LOL. Rogue 17:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Shouldn't the "setpage" derive automatically from the "set" name given?
Setpage refers to the LOTRO-wiki page for that set. Not necessarily what that set name actually is, though it should be the same. Rogue 19:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Is "setpc" (number of items in the item's set) necessary, or does it refer to the item's number within the set?
Not sure with the whole set section, I've created 1 or 2 but notice that no matter what number I put in there it only reflects the total number in the set when I view it on the setpage. Rogue 19:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
  • What is a "Characteristic" and how does it differ from a "Proficiency"?
  • Uloria 19:14, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Characteristic refers to the section of text that says: Requires: Flute Use or Requires: Burglar Tool Use etc... whereas Proficiency is linked directly with Prof (profession) example: Prof = Scholar Proficiency = Apprentice.. usually this is only used in the recipe pages.. haven't seen a use for it anywhere else. Rogue 19:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Should the "setpc" be removed as unnecessary?
  • Is there any reason the set name would not be the same as the lotro-wiki name? (i.e. move the set page if it's different.) Then "setpage" information could be coded to be automatic and removed from the template.
  • Is the "off-hand" field used in-game: i.e. are not all one-hand weapons usable in the off-hand, or are there specifically off-hand weapons? --- I just looked on the lotro lorebook and see there is no category for off-hand weapons.
Off-hand category is not needed and is voted off the island :) Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Small thing, but it might make sense to spell out the "Prof" field as "Profession".
If it means that much to you, though I do not see the need for it since we all know what it means :) Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Also, there could be just a "Category" field. "Main-category" looks sort of mandatory.
  • Uloria 21:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Main-category could be changed to Category-one if that's better since we need all five categories. Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Changes to Template

If nobody minds, I'd like to make a few changes to the Template's code:

  • Change the "Prof" field to "Profession"
    • Doesn't make a difference to code either way, just for knowing what prof means...
      • Yeah, that's the problem. I'd like to add the "Profession" field to the code and replace "Prof" in the template.
        • hmm... Any reason why you can't just remember what Prof means? Since it's the same as Profession... just live with it kinda deal?
          • Prof for most people means Professor, and it's not just me that has to remember. I won't change it so that it'll mess up any existing use of Prof.
  • Have only one category field, and lable it "category"
    • NO. I need a fifth added actually.
      • OK
  • Remove the "setpc" field
    • I am not sure if this will effect set items and their links (tooltips) on the actual set page.
      • Yes, I'll make that change last, and if I can't get it to work, I'll revert.
  • Remove the "setpage" field from this template, and if a Set's Wikipage name isn't the same as the in-game name, move the Wikipage.
    • Same as above.
  • Remove the "off-hand" field, as I cannot find it used anywhere in game - all one-handed weapons can be used in either hand.
    • Fine with me as I never use this field.
  • Bind-on-Use also does not appear to be used in this game. Uloria 17:02, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Agreed.

Rogue 22:38, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


Update: Added fifth category field, removed off-hand and BoU fields. Left setpage because I am not sure what that would effect. Left Prof cause forgot. Rogue 22:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I also wanted to remove some redundant slot items like Bracelet, Ranged, Shield, etc., and fix Cosmetic so it doesn't default to the "outfits" category and a few other things. Uloria 22:59, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

  • I am all for cleaning up the categories (slot items) just refer to Category:Items and see which ones to use and which to throw away. Also read the discussion page on Category:Items because I actually tried to start a discussion about this. Cosmetic I never used because it didn't do what I want.. but if you can fix that great! Rogue 23:29, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

More changes to template

Can we add another field to the tooltip template for recipe cooldown? There is a cooldown field currently, but it is for item on-use effect cooldown and therefore shows in green text. Recipe cooldowns should display in light blue text to match the in-game colour. Check out this screenshot:

I'm all for that, feel free.. and I'll get goosebumps when I have to edit through recipes for the change... lol Rogue 06:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Wouldn't this go on the Template:Infobox_Recipes or Template:Crafting? Uloria 12:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
There's a "single use recipe" field on this template - are these templates being combined? Uloria 12:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The Template:Recipes is a short version of the OLD Template:Infobox Item and is obsolete. Instead of updating Template:Recipes to reflect Template:Tooltip I just use the Tooltip template. Look at https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Lotro-Wiki.com:Crafting for my guidelines where I basically have a cookie cutter template for people to copy and paste into both recipe pages and item pages. This being said, yes a section for Recipe Cooldown would be nice. Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
It sounds like this information should go on the Crafting Recipe template (with all the ingredients, etc), and a field "Recipe" should be added to this item template instead. Uloria 01:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Another idea: since most items share graphics, perhaps add a default graphic field and replace the dye field with the default colour of the item? Uloria 12:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Not sure I am getting what you mean as the color of the item is the color of it's rarity.. common, uncommon, etc. View the site with a www. sometime and see the recipe pages for example. Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Giving dye information isn't really informative, because drops are random color, and crafted and quest items don't list their default color on the tooltip. The only informative part would be to determine which dye color a quest item corresponds to, and possibly give that information. Also if several items share the same graphic (like the cloaks I uploaded), that might be indicated as well. All rather optional, really, but it might be informative to someone. But the fields would better be named something like default color and graphic. "Dye" is whatever color someone has changed it to, and isn't descriptive of the item. Uloria 01:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to change "characteristic" to "skill req" or similar, to be clear. Uloria 13:23, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

|skill requirement might not fit all that characteristic does, but I havent seen anything else used with it. Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
If something else comes up, and I can't think of anything, another suitably-named field could be added. More likely, for a specific case like "Summonee", there would be a way to indicate it with the information already in the template. Uloria 01:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Setpage

I'm guessing (I'm not sure) that Setpage might have been an attempt to get the Settip/Itemtip to link to the Set's page, rather than referring to a red-linked page composed of the item's name without the "Item:". This was caused by an well-intentioned, but misguided addition to the Settip on some of the sets' pages. Uloria 18:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

You already know more than I in this category since I havent looked at those other than copy and paste! Rogue 00:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Disambigpage

Do you have any idea what this field is supposed to accomplish?

Whenever a template with this field is transcluded on any other page, it make the name on the template refer to that page, rather than to the item. For example:

Steel Dagger

doesn't link to Item:Steel Dagger, but to this page.

Without it the page or site does not recognize it as a tooltip. Plus it puts the information on the right side of the page instead of the left. But more important is it is the key to what makes it a tooltip. Rogue 23:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


Other Fixes

  1. I fixed the Necklace and similar problems mentioned above by linking type and slot to the categories, rather than to a page creation page.
  2. Made Slot field show.
  3. Removed most of the blank space in the template.
  4. Added Recipe field. Removed recipe single use from this template; noted single use and cooldown are already on the recipe template.
I would appreciate it if you would check to make sure changes do not effect other pages associated with templates. I have been updating recipes for a while with THIS Template and do not appreciate my work being NULL and void. I use this template for recipes and needed this included, otherwise I would not have recently added it. Instead of doing a revert (all your changes would be lost) as was done to me when I first started I have taken the time to find that code and re-added it into the template. Please be careful with your edits in the future. Rogue 23:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure I follow what the use of "recipes" is, what do you intend us to put there? I would appreciate it if you could change this to Recipe cooldown, as that would be more fitting. Never will we use a line for putting a recipe link in the item tooltip as the other admins before me purposely left that out of this tooltip from the old Item template in exchange for information on the page.. hence my sections of Craft Information on each crafted item page. This is more appealing than just a tooltip. At least with Recipe cooldown it can be used appropriately. Rogue 00:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  1. Moved Quests and Recipies to the bottom.
  2. Added default graphic and color (i.e. Item:Frayed Cloak)

Uloria 18:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Updated Template proposal

<onlyinclude>{{tooltip
| mode={{{mode|}}}
| arg={{{arg|}}}
| name		= 
| disambigpage	= Item:{{PAGENAME}}
| icon		= -icon
| quality	= 		<!-- Common = White/Grey; Uncommon = Yellow; Rare = Purple; Incomparable = Teal/Cyan; Legendary = Orange -->
| unique	= 		<!-- anything here will add "Unique" -->
| indestructible= 		<!-- anything here will add "Cannot Be Destroyed" -->
| consumed	= 		<!-- anything here will add "Consumed on Use"  -->
| cosmetic	= 		<!-- anything here will add "Cosmetic" -->
| bind		= 		<!-- BoE or BoA -->
| type		= 		<!-- As given on the in-game tooltip -->
| slot		= 		<!-- If given, or Armour: Head / Shoulder / Chest / Hands / Legs / Feet (NOT for Weapons or anything else) -->
| deco-slot	= 		<!-- House item -- >
| first-category = 		<!-- Categories, if neither "type" nor "slot" are used -->
| second-category = 
| third-category = 
| fourth-category = 
| fifth-category = 
<!-- Armour -->
| armour	= 
<!-- Weapons -->
| dmg		= 
| dmgtype	= 
| dps		= 
| speed		= 
| bonus		= 		<!-- Purple Damage Bonus text; Green attributes go in "attrib" below -->
| bonustype	= 
<!-- On-Use, including Scrolls -->
| use		= 
| skilltype	= 
| resistance	= 
| range		= 
| radius	= 
| maxtargets	= 
| duration	= 
| max_duration	= 
| cooldown	= 
<!-- Requirements -->
| level		= 
| maxlevel	= 
| class		= 
| race		= 
| skillreq	= 
| profession	= 
| proficiency	= 
| faction	= 
| standing	= 
| virtue	= 
| gloryrank	= 
| infamyrank	= 
<!-- All -->
| attrib	= 		<!-- Stat bonuses, separate with <br /> (+6 [[Fate]]<br />+3 [[Will]]) -->
| durability	= 
| dur_class	= 
| flavor	= 		<!-- Description text, without quotes -->
| set		= 		<!-- Set name, if item is part of a set -->
| sell		= {{worth|g=|s=|c=|dp=}}	<!-- Worth when selling to an NPC -->
| vendor	= {{worth|g=|s=|c=|dp=}}	<!-- Price when bought from an NPC -->
| qitem		= 		<!-- Quest name -->
| qbegin	= 		<!-- Quest name for items that begin a quest -->
| recipe	= 
<!-- Optional -->
| graphic	= 		<!-- Item's shared graphic -->
| colour	= 		<!-- Default color for quest, crafted, and some vendor items -->
| stack	=		<!-- max items that can be stacked in one bag slot -->
}}</onlyinclude>

Though you may believe this to be better, I still do not like the notes as I would have to sit and delete them all every page I create as they make the article size larger. You may do this but I request a clean version as well that we can copy/paste from. Plus I have been using this before it became public and now I am going to have to get used to a new order? Will the order of this new template reflect changes if we do not change the order on each Item page?? I am thinking not, but I am not positive. If the new order somehow effects the current item pages (puts them in a screwy order or something) then I say no. Rogue 23:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


  • The notes and groupings in this template are for the benefit of people, including myself, who have not been using this template since before it became public. The fields are also in the same order as the in-game tooltip, further facilitating the finding of things. If you make things accessible for new editors, things will get done, and get done properly, otherwise you'll find yourself doing everything.
  • That said, the template will work the same no matter what order the fields are in on the item pages.
  • This very little text, and unused fields will take up more text than the notes. Images and accessing the template code take up the bulk of bandwidth and processing time. And MMOers will have better-than-minimal internet connections.
  • There are three different things in discussion here:
  1. The scroll item from which the recipe/skill is learned. (i.e the top image in Item:Loose Linen Armour Recipe). All are single-use/consumed on use.
  2. The recipe/skill itself. (i.e the bottom template in Item:Loose Linen Armour Recipe). If the *recipe* itself is single-use or has a cooldown this is where I would look for that information. If the *scroll* has a cooldown, say, before another similar scroll could be used, there is a cooldown field already in this template.
  3. The item that the recipe creates. (i.e. Item:Loose Linen Armour, with updated template). If an item is crafted, its recipe ought to be given and linked in the template.
  • I am not new to coding, or to Wiki-editing, and as you can see, I went through a lot of trouble to fix quite a few things that you also had noticed were not working right. I would have hoped you would have appreciated that.
Uloria 01:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


1. You are using examples of tailor crafting items, which have yet been updated. I have been spending a lot of time in updating the crafting indexes including recipe pages and their item equivalents: Item:Rowan Club Recipe and Item:Rowan Club. Once this is complete, every crafted item page will have a link to it's recipe page and every recipe page will have a link to the normal and critical item page. Forgive me for not having the tailoring section done.

I used a Tailoring example, because I knew off-hand where to find a single-use example in Tailoring. Distinguishing these three items: Scroll, Recipe, and Crafted Item applies to all Crafts.

2. Glad to hear that the template order doesn't matter on the old pages, in that case by all means match the order of the tooltip with the in-game one. Regardless of what you think I do appreciate your help, what I don't appreciate is someone moving in and undoing an edit I just did this week.

3. I have gone ahead and updated Template:Recipe which I plan to implement soon regardless of the fact that we are without a bot and I will have to edit every recipe page, (again). This will elevate any problems between recipes and items.

The current Template:Recipe is for Scrolls, the Item dropped by mobs, traded at the AH, etc.; it is, and it should be drawn from this template.
The Scroll Item is different from the Recipe itself, which is covered by the Template:Crafting. If the *Recipe* is single use, not just the scroll, this information should be coded in this template.
For the Scrolls then, the Cyan-colored text that appears on the Tooltips (single-use, recipe cooldown, and any others) should be entered manually in a new field, labelled something like "recipe warning".
Have you seen the Lotro-Wiki.com:Crafting page? template:recipe will now be used for all recipes (the "scrolls". And yes the single use is both on the scroll and in the template crafting. But the correct code is on the Project crafting page. I noticed you didn't use my template for the loose linen recipe page.. otherwise you wouldnt see either the code for numbers by the name or the single use if it is not. Regardless you made it clear that crafting wasnt you area. Rogue 16:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
No, I used this template, as it's based on the same code, and I wanted to check it. Yes, crafting is not my area, but Items, such as Scrolls, are. Uloria 13:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

4. Your coding experience is most welcome, and appreciated, so long as you understand that there are others to consider. It has been solely myself for quite some time trying to learn my way around the advanced editing, or coding, side of things. I was very proud, am very proud, of the changes so far I have made, and to have someone go in and delete what I had just done this week, is a bit unnerving to say the least. I apologize for being angry, but perhaps now you understand a bit better.

5. Feel free to do what you want with this now that I have created Template:Recipe. It's better this way.

Rogue 05:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Considerations for Deletion

1. Stack - stack is not really necessary as it stands in the tooltip and is rather annoying where it's placed. If people wish for this information to remain in the tooltip I recommend not showing it within the icon.

2. Profession and Proficiency are no longer needed in the item tooltip as they are in the recipe template.

They may still be needed for tools, scrolls etc.
Tools and Scrolls if crafting are covered with the crafting and recipe templates. Rogue 16:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

3. Dye - it has been pointed out already that this is an unnecessary field as dyes change when you dye your outfit.

Yes, it's already changed to (default) colour. I'll move colour, graphic and stack to the bottom and label them optional, as most of the time, editors will not have that information on hand.
What is the graphic for? And stack currently no matter where you put it in the code will show in the icon, please fix that if you intend to keep it.

Rogue 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Graphic: I did answer this twice above, with example.
With everything else going on I must have missed it in our huge expose. I'll look over this page again and try to find it. Rogue 16:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
When I moved "Stack" in the template, I had already changed the code so it was not part of the icon. It was already "fixed".
Uloria 13:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Ok great, last I haven't noticed any changes until this morning. Rogue 16:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


Shadowed-text

I'll add a shadow effect to the item names (the same behaviour as in-game). I'd also like to change the colour of the rare items from purple to magenta. This colour is much nearer to the colour in-game, at least on FF+Chrome on my machine. A preview can be found here and some tests can be found there, too. If noone objects, I'm going to add the changes in the next days. --EoD 02:00, 26 March 2011 (EDT)

All for it - looks good! --Marble 04:14, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
After a long discussion in the irc and a lot of changes/tests, I'm updating the links. --EoD 11:43, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
The magenta was originally too "bright" for me, but I like the final colors at Tooltip_colours#Tier_final. Thanks for putting together a neater array for us to compare. :) Sethladan 16:24, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
I have applied the changes. I hope you all like them in the end --EoD 17:39, 27 March 2011 (EDT)


Task items

Does anyone have an objection to add automatically the proper flavour variable (if it is not overwritten) for type == trophy? We got a lot of default task items which have the same description over and over again. This would also automatically add the red line "This item may be turned in for tasks". --EoD 22:14, 16 March 2011 (EDT)

I'd change
  • <!-- Items Flavor Text -->{{#if:{{{flavor|{{{desc|{{{comment|}}}}}}}}}|<div style="height:10px"> </div><li class="flavor">"{{{flavor|{{{desc|{{{comment}}}}}}}}}"}}
to
  • <!-- Items Flavor Text -->{{#if: {{{flavor|{{{desc|{{{comment|}}}}}}}}} | <div style="height:10px"> </div><li class="flavor">"{{{flavor|{{{desc|{{{comment}}}}}}}" | {{#if: {{#ifeq: {{lc: {{{type|}}} }} | trophy | 1}} | "A trophy gathered from a corpse.<br /><br />Trophies can be sold to vendors for coin.<br /><br />.<span style="color:red">This item may be turned in for tasks.</span>"}} }}
I'm intentionally only checking the flavour variable and not desc/comment as those seem to be deprecated. --EoD 22:41, 16 March 2011 (EDT)
Good idea - I'm all for cutting down on the amount of typing we have to do for item entry. Three points:
  • Do you mean to use "Type" instead of "Flavor" in the section of code you're adding? It seems like the way you have it now, your part would never kick in because "flavor" is already blank.
  • How about {{lc: }} instead of setting up cases for Trophy and trophy? That should let you boil the trophy part down to one #ifeq.
  • Any idea if the div height:10 is needed for presentation?
There's a lot of cleaning up/improving that needs to happen with this template, so definitely thanks for pointing out the deprecated parameters - mental note to go through and clean out any references to those so we can pare down the code. Sethladan 02:01, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
  • I totally agree to your points 1 and 2. I was looking for something like {{lc: }} but I didn't remember anything similiar. About your 3rd point, I'm not sure what this was meant for. I didn't dare to this (quite chaotic) template more then required. I'm going to add the above version if you agree.
  • I'll check about the div afterwards.
  • If we remove deprecated variables, we also might add something like "Deprecated template usage" to all tooltip pages which use deprecated variables. This is really easy :)
--EoD 18:30, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
Glad I could help. :) Re: deprecated variables, that's a good idea, possibly (for example) {{#if: {{{desc|{{{comment|}}} }}} | [[Category:Pages Using Outdated Parameters]] }}, which would just give us a quick category to look through and clean up references to those variables. My (less formal and perhaps less reliable) approach is to just do a search for that variable in the Item: namespace. Just did that for both "desc" and "comment" and it doesn't seem like they're actually used anywhere, so they might be safe to delete. But, as you said, it's a chaotic template (that's not even being used for its original purpose) so we might have to just work at it one bit at a time. :) Sethladan 19:41, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
I added the changes which I proposed and moved the out-of-topic talks to another point in order to simplify the dialogue :) --EoD 23:08, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
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