Template talk:Creature
Archived messages
Update to Template 2018
I updated / made changes to the following:
- Updated all category lists - should be current up to U22.
- Added Instance parameter to template and ability to categorize them.
- If instance parameter is used leave location and area parameters blank;
- So long as Location parameter is blank, does not categorize them into Location-less Mob Stubs.
- Moria - Location = Moria; Area = areas known as the separate maps; they now categorize by area.
- When Region: and/or Area: are left blank they disappear from infobox.
- Updated Boilerplate:Creature and Help:Creatures for clear explanation of how to handle instance mobs in the template
Creature VS Mob
- Creatures are OUTSIDE in the landscape
- Mobs are INSIDE interior spaces (instances, raids, skirmishes, epic battles etc)
- All categorization should be automatic and this should no longer be a question.
Rogue (talk) 01:17, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
Requested Changes
- Ents and Fell Beasts need to be added as valid species.
- done and done
- Could we have the species as well as the genus be a link? So like how if you click on Orc-kind under Genus it takes you to Orc-kind, make it so that if you click on Goblin under species it takes you to Goblins?
- Like NPCs, some attackable creatures have floaty titles in small text under their names. Could we add a field for that, like we have on Template:Npcbox? Gnagerwine (talk) 04:30, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- it seems we're consistent about categorizing creatures by Region except in the case of Moria. Could we fix the template to categorize all Moria creatures together, unless we're going to turn it around and categorize them all by Area instead? Gnagerwine (talk) 04:47, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- Some Ancient Evil have a Beast species type, like the Druggavar and Dire-horns are Ancient Evil Goats, and Láthbears are Ancient Evil Bears. How should we categorize those? Gnagerwine (talk) 07:36, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- Could we make "Summoned" or "Varies" a valid location category, for creatures like Defiler's Totems which are summoned by Orc Defilers all over the world? Gnagerwine (talk) 17:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
- There is also Hobbit (Hobbit) (Good) and Elf (Elf) (Good) as seen if you inspect Skirmish soldiers.
- Can we have a parameter for aggression? I am not sure exactly what to call them but I can think of 5 ratings: completely passive, follows but never attacks (like most Insect Clouds), follows and attacks when up close (like some Bear cubs), threatens before attacking, and attacks on sight.
I found the following species we don't have categories for, which I think aren't normally attackable but you can see if you spar and inspect a Captain or Lore-master's companion:
- Species (Genus) (Alignment)
- Eagle (Beast) (Neutral)
- Raven (Beast) (Neutral)
- Spirit of Nature (Creatures of Nature) (Good)
- Dwarf (Dwarf) (Good)
The Man heralds are the same species as Umín:
- Man (Man) (Good)
The other summoned allies are as expected, for example the Oathbreaker Herald is Shade (The Dead) (Evil) and the Bog-lurker is Bog-lurker (Creatures of Nature) (Neutral). Note that if the Lore-master has the traits that make the allies Signature, the inspect window says Good Signature. Gnagerwine (talk) 07:16, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Gnagerwine (talk) 03:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Could someone fix the line "| Ungoledain = [[Category:Ungoledain]]" so that the input is "Ungoladan", so as to be consistent with pluralization? Isi7140 (talk) 01:54, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- Done, thanks for the correction! —Thurallor (talk) 21:40, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
- "Category: Ungoladan" needs to be switched back to "Category: Ungoledain" now (so that the whole line reads "| Ungoladan = [[Category:Ungoledain]]"), but otherwise great! Isi7140 (talk) 20:55, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Categorisation by level
I propose the addition of categorisation by level. The current categorisation of by species, type and location might be useful but not as useful as by level. Many times I find myself asking "where are mobs of level XX?".
The change is simple, add: [[Category:Creatures level {{{level}}}]]
This will create categories such as
- Creatures level 50
- Creatures level 51
- Creatures level 50-51
- Creatures level 50,51
In my opinion this is preferable; the alternative of separating the levels would be slightly less useful, more complicated to program and more computer intense on the server.
Once/if the change is made, I will go though the list of those categories to sort out the errors and non-standard entries. They should be trivial to spot and fix.
Mogafi (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
Reply to Mogafi by Ravanel
Hey Mogafi. I've never personally felt the need to look for mobs by level, but I can see how that can be useful. In principle, you have my support.
The creatures that can have multiple levels are somewhat of a problem, though. In truth, I don't really like the "Category: Creatures level 50-51" (example) solution.
Disadvantages "Category:Creatures level 50-51":
- Not very elegant
- Will create MANY "excess categories" with various level ranges
- Because of the level range categories, it will still be difficult / require a thorough study for users to find all creatures of a certain level
- Conclusion: we'd have created a lot of categories, but they don't actually help (much) with the issue that caused us to create them
I'd prefer it if we could automatically add such creatures to both "Category: Creatures level 50" and "Category: Creatures level 51" (if this is possible coding wise). This solves all problems mentioned above. However, this brings other potential issues (sigh).
Disadvantages "Category:Creatures level 50" + "Category:Creatures level 51":
- Some creature pages will belong to a TON of creature level categories (think: skirmish mobs)
- Potential server load issues (need someone more techy to say something sensible about this)
Thoughts? Advice from techy / coding people especially welcome. :) --Ravanel (talk) 21:33, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Tiers
The template only allows 2 Tiers. It is necessary to redo it in order to be able to add at least 3 Tiers. Best 5 Tiers. Belov7 (talk) 10:24, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
- Working on it, preview here User:Drono/CreatureTemplate, feedback welcome. --Drono (talk) 10:27, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
New requests
- The line "| Glittering Cave" under Epic Battles needs to be spelled "| Glittering Caves".
- Please add "| The Fallen Kings" to the 6-man instance section.
- We need to add a section for Gundabad. Should we do it the same way as we do Moria?
Thanks! -- Isi7140 (talk) 05:14, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- Does anyone know what is the logic behind the categorization? At the moment location less mobs are put in the instance category if that param exists by default. Only if the location is empty the instance param is checked against the list of instances weather put page into category or not. Is this done because of landscape/quest instances? If so, wouldn't it be easier to just make a rule of not filling the location param for mobs that are in world instances or add a world-instance param that would be set to something for these? it would remove the need of updating the template with every new instance release. --Drono (talk) 07:29, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- Edit: After second look at the template page i noticed the location param should be left empty if instance param is used and instance param should not be used for quest instances, which makes me even more puzzled. Since at the moment if location is filled the page is automatically categorized based on instance without any check. If instance param is ment only for world instances than the whole checking for the instance name is not needed. --Drono (talk) 07:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- The logic was as follows: The instance location is used for all world quests accessed from the instance finder menu. There is a separate set of location categories for these, and a separate instance page should be created. A list of these instances is maintained in the template. If used the other two locations (region/area) are redundant and not required. For all other regional and quest instances the region / area sections are used to indicate where the quest starts. Note that area can be a settlement or landmark is that is where the instance starts or occurs - whatever makes more sense.! For major quest instances, an instance page can be created and that can used as the area. Basically the instance set-up covered the scaleable creatures. Thanks go to Rogue for sorting this out.
- Mission set-up for creatures needs some further thought, given how many times the same creature appears in missions. We son't really want the creature being manually added to many categories for each mission they appear, so a single category for missions under the instance structure may be best.
- In answer to your question, the instance location places the creature into a category for that instances under the instance creature structure. Removing the restriction would result in people entering anything in the instance location (which they try to do now) possibly in addition to the region/area, which results in many categories being assigned to the creatures that then required creation and further correct categorization. This is like how it was before Rogue's work, and the whole creature categorization was a mess.
- I suggest you proceed carefully, taking into account real world use and how the creatures are to be categorised.Noddi (talk) 23:03, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Bug Report
This template tags obsolete pages with missing images for "broken links" even if nocat=yes is set. I consider that a bug. Missing images should not tag for anything when "nocat" is set. See Corcur Seer for an example. — Zimoon 19:09, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Can somebody with the powers to edit this template please fix this bug? — Zimoon 11:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Glittering Caves should be The Glittering Caves
... I think. The full name is Epic Battle: The Glittering Caves. Please fix the template as it now generates a red link somewhere. — Zimoon 12:07, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Carn Dûm must be changed to Carn Dûm (Instance)
Because of page-name conflicts between the area of Carn Dûm and Carn Dûm (Instance) all mobs have been updated. They are OK because of the fallback of this template, but ideally "Carn Dûm" must be changed to "Carn Dûm (Instance)" in the instance section. I do not have the permissions to fix that. — Zimoon 15:55, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
Update The Ford of Bruinen (Skirmish)
Could somebody please update the entry for the skirmish "The Ford of Bruinen" to "The Ford of Bruinen (Skirmish)" as that is what the page-name reads and what the "instance" parameter of the mobs reads. I am not allowed to do that update on my own.
Many thanks in advance
— Zimoon 18:24, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
- Bump. — Zimoon 16:18, 23 July 2022 (UTC)