Talk:Rivendell Valley

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Rivendell [Valley]

In-game, when travelling and moving around within Rivendell Valley we see exactly that name. In most other text of deeds, quests, etc., as well as in Tolkien's work, we always read Rivendell. Thus, Rivendell Valley seems to be a Turbine product, but exactly why that decision is highly unclear because Tolkien was not explicit about the borders or the content of Rivendell. The name itself means "deep valley of the cleft" and may comprise whatever size of the area.

In this case, different than for Bree and Bree-town (see Talk:Bree), I decided to merge Rivendell into Rivendell Valley. Why? Simply because it reads under the radar when moving around within the area, and obviously Turbine never created anything they really named "Rivendell", but rather many landmarks and interiors they put down within Rivendell Valley. This is naturally a judgement call, but I feel it would be inappropriate to "invent" an in-game location named Rivendell when there is no such location to visit. The only other way would be to let Rivendell Valley redirect to Rivendell, but what do we gain by that? And what do we win by having two pages when one could do?

Opinions and discussion are warmly welcomed. -- Zimoon (talk) 16:10, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

I'm in favor of the collapse of the two pages. By putting the information at "Rivendell" with a redirect from "Rivendell Valley", the thing we would gain would be better matching Tolkien's description of the world, and it is most likely what people expect when they're searching for Rivendell. But since this wiki is dedicated to the game, not the books or the movies, it's probably better to leave it here. People can go to Tolkien Gateway if they like it better. ;)
Also, is it intended that Rivendell Valley shows up as both a Settlement and an Area in the Trollshaws infobox? -- Elinnea (talk) 11:12, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
In regards of Rivendell Valley or Rivendell redirecting to whichever, I do not really have a strong opinion there, it just felt better using the name read under the radar. Whatever, it is an easy job to switch the two would consensus gravitate in that direction.
I did not really think of the info-box, I guess I was too tired yesterday. Hmmm, we know for sure the valley is an area, but I believe most people consider Rivendell a settlement. Maybe change it so it reads Rivendell but links to the valley? I guess that looks better. So answer is "no, that was unintentional" ;)
-- Zimoon (talk) 17:25, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
My knee-jerk reaction was that there must be some distinction between the two - Rivendell and Rivendell Valley - but after a few days' of passive pondering, I can definitely see the sense in combining the two. I agree with Elinnea that most people probably think first of "Rivendell" and not the Valley, and I even think of the location Cirith Imladris which almost means (I think?) "Valley (or deep cleft) of Rivendell" in Sindarin; it makes "Rivendell Valley" seem pretty redundant.
But, yes, switching back and forth which is the "default" name is easy (as long as you disregard the task of updating links as well), and Elin points out that we're here for the game (however weird they are with inventing locations) and not the stories specifically. My support for Zimoon's merging of the two pages. :) Sethladan 14:49, 18 August 2012 (EDT)
The merge is one thing, I feel very confident it should not be undone. If anything Rivendell should be a very small article concentrating on the lore and history, with a link to the valley page. But that would really mess things up because so many links go to Rivendell when it should have been the area/settlement page, so I guess most people would just turn mad of it. Plus all the coords-links :(
In-game it reads Rivendell Valley at the radar, and Rivendell does not exist other than in texts. Very curious why Turbine went that path. But that valley is in itself a settlement with spread out "quarters" providing services. Much like a stretched out village, and less of a town. I think Bree is equally large, but it is more town-ish.
Just my small comments, if anybody favour a switch, speak up. But undoing the merge, I am strongly against that and say thanks to Elin and Seth. -- Zimoon (talk) 15:05, 18 August 2012 (EDT)