Talk:Lotro-Wiki Contributors' Corner/Archive 2007

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Welcome to the Archive of the Talk Page of Contributors' Corner for 2007

Contents


PageNaming Policy

I think its about time for some policies (spelling?)... I already mentioned it on Talk:Main Page under topic "new page for contributors", but I'll do it here again to start a discussion rolling...

...for example the regions... if a region has an elven name, do we name page by this name? or do we use translation that is also used from time to time in game and in books?

  • one example for it would be Ered Luin and Blue Mountains... but its not so easy since game itself isn't consistent and uses not Hithaeglir but Misty Mountains for another region... what do we do about it?
  • 'til now i just added a redirect for another name, since someone could look for it by this name, and in that case would be redirected to the other page...

--Xander 05:51, 4 April 2007 (PDT)

When in doubt always use the name defined in the game and do a redirect. If it gets to confusing then create a page that describes the different names and point to the "main article". --Hinney 20:29, 4 April 2007 (PDT)
I believe that they used Ered Luin/Misty Mountains because those living in the Misty Mountains aren't normally elves and therefore might not use the name Hithaeglir.::

--heeroyui85

Wiki Theme

We really need a "Middle Earthy" type theme on this wiki to make it stand out a bit more. The default themes just don't have alot of flare to them. Anyone have any experience with Wiki Themes? If not, I could take a stab at it. --Hamma 06:13, 4 April 2007 (PDT)

Agreed, and we also need to work on some other design aspects like color friendly templates for monster skills for example, these black tables do not look really nice with current default theme of LotRO-Wiki --Xander 14:22, 4 April 2007 (PDT)
A while back I had the default skin duplicated as "Lotro" skin. Feel free to change your default skin to "Lotro" and edit MediaWiki:Lotro.css (requires certain permissions, ask if you want to edit them). If you notice any quirks or competition between the other CSS's that get loaded into a page let me know. I was hoping to make a non-white theme for the wiki but never had the time. --Hinney 20:45, 4 April 2007 (PDT)
I brought up a test wiki site I am going to play around with it a bit in a non-live environment and let you guys know. I will provide a link to it when I am done playing around. --Hamma 06:34, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
Well I played around with it a little bit (Very little) came up with this. It's still very much a work in progress and I am still toying with it. One thing I have learned is Wiki Styles are a pain.. I also have some ideas for a Logo. --Hamma 09:59, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
I updated the lotro.css with your theme Hamma, feel free to play with it here --Lotroadmin 23:02, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Interwiki links?

Can we get some other wiki's added via admin magic so that we can reference their pages wiki style? If that has happened, where do I find a list of stuff we can refer to interwikily?

Also a wiki editing for dummies type of thing would be great for me.

--YuriPup 06:38, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

I don't know of any interwiki content yet, I haven't noticed any yet. I'm not sure what we would interlink as most of the game content is as new as this wiki.
Editing for dummies, Click on the Help link on the left --Hinney 07:58, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
I could see it useful for citing references on the Story and Character background externally. --Hamma 08:15, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
I have personally linked to Wikipedia already (for Pipeweed). Almost anything lore based will have been beaten to death on other wiki and we don't have to reinvent their work or re-create their drama. I would think there are going to be very few entries (besides quests and mechanics, that don't cite external works.--YuriPup 08:26, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

Glossary?

What about a glossary? MMOGspeak can be neigh impenetrable for a new player. I think it should also appear on the main page but I don't have a good suggestion as to what category (Guides?). --YuriPup 12:12, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

Sure Guides should do it, for the starters a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG_terms_and_acronyms might help... before we have set up something of our own... --Xander 12:46, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
Check out Category:Game Terms--Hinney 14:39, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
Compare what we have to let's say to what wowwiki has (i used it a lot while i played wow): Game Terms, Glossary, Acronyms and Abbreviations... --Xander 14:56, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

Graphics on the LotRO-Wiki

Do we have anyone gifted or talented to create a few graphics for us? --Xander 09:55, 7 April 2007 (PDT)

On the same note, just wanted to let you know that i've changed tlink|Infobox Item to use GIFs since PNGs seem to have some kind of problem with transparity... old JPG and PNG money icons may be deleted... --Xander 15:54, 7 April 2007 (PDT)

GIF files are huge, i don't think lotroadmin would like us using that file format. What problems are you seeing with PNG files? GIF=bad, PNG=good --Hinney 19:46, 7 April 2007 (PDT)
GIFs I uploaded weren't bigger than PNGs we had... and those PNGs didnt like transparent colors...
Don't know what happened since I checked it a few days ago on three various browsers and two different pcs, but now they seem to be OK, and i swear i didn't smoke any pipeweed...
PS one more thing lets not start disscussion on PNGs vs GIFs =) I'm with you there GIFs are evil... --Xander 03:11, 8 April 2007 (PDT)
I know GIF's are evil. How do we feel about jpg? I guess most of my contributions are in that format. Should we try and keep everything to PNG-only? --Blakborn 14:31, 10 April 2007 (PDT)
JPGs are fine, there are lots of cons on GIFs from various angles (requires licensing, color depth, animations, etc)... For me.. if i post a screen shot it will always be the jpg but if i crop something then it will most likely be a png file.. but that's just me. I do know that lotroadmin is concerned about bandwidth so any large files posted might get resized. --Hinney 15:00, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Happy Easter

Happy Easter to Christians among us! Everyone else enjoy Weekend =) --Xander 03:01, 8 April 2007 (PDT)

Monster Play section

Just wanted to let you know that all of the initial monster skills & traits supposed to be in the wiki.
There are some more minor things that i would like to add this week (if i get to it): a few dev diaries and things from the manual... Afterwards this section would need some beautification... And i wouldn't mind if someone with fresh eyes could go through the section and tell if something does not function or is wrong or funny, whatever =) --Xander 00:08, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

new web host

I've moved the lotro-wiki.com to a new web hosting company as i've noticed some downtime over the past few weeks. Please leave me a message if you see any additional issues. Also I believe this new web hosting site will be faster, so please confirm or deny that. :) --Lotroadmin 01:07, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

It seems faster most of the time to me... but it also seems that some pagenames got corrupted, those with uncommon symbols like ú or û for example, we will have to be rename/move those i guess --Xander 01:13, 18 April 2007 (PDT)
"Michael Chu's blog provides a good solution for people migrating their MySQL databases and finding that special characters (like smart quotes) get mangled. He presents two practical solutions to migrating the database properly." [[1]] Banaticus 23:59, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

--Xander 09:20, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Player Character Template

hi everyone, name is Mike, go by Ealdor. As you may have noticed I have added a Player_Characters template system. Check out Example:Player_Character or Ealdor for an example. This will work very well for people to put bios on there characters. Im still working out some of the rough spots as it was designed for a Style sheet.

Also as a note, I know it is hard to control all the time but one of the ads was for EQ2 gold *frown* Is there a stand on this?

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ealdor (Contribs • Message).

If there are any gold selling adds just post the URL (try not to click on it) on my talk page and I can see about getting them removed. --Lotroadmin 12:01, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

Back to subect, we need to come up with some way to categorize all the players pages, template does a good deal already but all those categories need to be further categorized =) I started already making all of them as subcategories of Category:Player Characters, but kinship & server categories need another way of doing it, probably something simple like another subcategory only for kinships and only for servers, I just cant come up with suitable name... --Xander 01:11, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Hello, can I make a suggestion that you add eye colour to the character profile Also, how do you find a link there with having it bookmarked, so from the main page? --Chris 15:01, 19 April 2007 (PDT)


I played a bit more with Mike's template: changed the header and further adapted it so that some fields lead to inclusion of categories only if they are filled with info... this should help us get rid of subcategories like Members, No Kinship Members and so on... may need some further work in including most common things that are written in kinship field, otherwise just leaving field blank does the magic... result is for now at {{pcbeta}}... --Xander 09:16, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
PS: You can test it on the talk page, note the empty kinship field and absence of any nonsensical subcategory for it =) --Xander 09:20, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

One more thing that seems odd to me is that many people write name of their char with {{ }} around it, making a name to template and thus breaking the page a bit, since there's no such template... why would someone do that? how can we prevent it? 'til now i just looked at every new char to correct it and create new subcategories... --Xander 09:16, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Instances?

Just a thought. Tonight my wife and I where out working on our deeds and there was an instance we could not get into. It got me thinking that we do not have a Instance page to list them yet. Any ideas on arranging and organizing?

Instances DancesInTrees 23:56, 18 April 2007 (PDT)
No Idea, really, since there are so many quests that have instanced areas, which you can't enter unless you have the Quest for them...
Perhaps we schould have a section for Quest Instances and a separate one for, those like Barrows and Agamaur --Xander 00:31, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Learning the Wiki Systems

Hello, I have always wanted to be a a more than spelling and grammer checker for a wiki site, and I always start up games late, but now that I have caught this game since aphla and am done with school, I would like to take a stab at learning how do do all this.

So were is the best place to start leanring all about Wiki?

--Chris 14:59, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Welcome to the wiki. Since you were able to add this note you know enough to start helping add to the site. The wiki markup language is very easy to use. One bit of advice I'll give is to alway use the Show Preview button when you've made changes, that way you can easily see if your changes didn't work as planned.

If you are making major changes to a page (such as layout), it is usually good to use the discussion link for that page to propose what you have in mind. That way other people can see what the change looks like and discuss any ideas they have. But sometimes you just have to go ahead and make the change, similar to what happened with the List of Worlds, which looks much better than it did.

Two sources of info are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet

--Skeeve 17:25, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks, I bookmarked those they should come in handy, are there more advanced tutorials as well?

--Baraphor 21:45, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Also checkout Help:Contents page for more info about editing. --Lotroadmin 23:03, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Trophies Cross Ref

Just a note and ask for help. Kinmate asked me about how we know what professions go with what trophies. I said hmm, we need a wiki page for that. SO. Ill start compiling a table which people can use as a cross reference for this. --Ealdor 14:15, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Infobox NPC

An Infobox appropriate for named NPCs has been created at Template:Infobox NPC. Banaticus 14:40, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

like i commented on talk page for this template, there is misunderstanding as to what npc is, or for the use of this template...
and one more thing is that this template uses other non-existing template. --Xander 01:19, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
If you want to reply on the template talk page, then that's the proper place to reply. Don't split a discussion into two parts. :) Banaticus 19:07, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
I didn't split it, you did... just wanted to warn that on basis of your description & example template didn't do what it was intended to, since some things were mixed up bad, you shouldn't really announce unfinisched things =P --Xander 22:22, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Format templates, images

Perhaps I've missed them, but we need format templates on how things should be structured, such as how quest rewards should be structured, etc. Should we give a picture and the item name like in game or what? Perhaps a template for each item could be creatd when the item is created, something like {item|#} that would make: [picture]#[item link] We also need a great deal of commonplace item pictures, such as Lard. Banaticus 19:45, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

Check out Help:Contents for details on templates.
Items: Template:Infobox Item
Quests: Template:Infobox Quest -- Several people have commented that this template doesn't play to well with quests that have multiple steps. So i might recommend that a alternate template be created to help maintain key quest details such that we can better categorize the quests. Those quest details should be: name, level, reward, region, npc, link to quest talk page. Maybe this could just be a banner across the page like the following:
{{Infobox Quest Banner
| name        = {{PAGENAME}}
| level       = 99
| reward      = {{worth|g=1000|s=99|c=01|dp=23400}}
| region      = Bree-land
| monster     =
| quest-giver = 
|}}

--Hinney 23:01, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

I'll discuss that quest template on its talk page. Banaticus 09:16, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

of skill, item and class infoboxes

how about making all of the float on the right side of page, that way if there's any additional info other than infobox itself it is displayed on the page parallel to infobox...

see Captain's Valour for example... i would suggest removing class infobox from such pages at all or replace it with another text only at the bottom of the page... reducing it as much as possible... in this case perhaps one-liner: "Captain: Skills, Traits, Accomplishments..." or even put this one-liner at the top and add at the bottom bigger one with all the captain traits...

What do you think? --Xander 11:34, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

i think three one liners at the bottom would be fine. In the case of Captain's Valour you would have a one-liner for captain:skills, traits, accomplishments, one-liner for class traits:Bu,Ca,Ch,Gu,Hu,Lm,Mi and finally a one liner for all the captain trait's. Kinda like what you did for the regions, right? Sounds like a lot of work but i think it would be worth it to enhance navigation. --Hinney 19:35, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
ok. i'll start working on it --Xander 00:50, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

traits

captain Traits

here are "alpha" versions, they definatly need some variance in color and style, any suggestions? --Xander 02:03, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
played with colours a bit... --Xander 09:34, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
I think they look good. I would recommend making the {{captain}} to {{class|captain}} so that we can use the same template for all the classes and even the main class pages.
For colors, should we just consider using the same look and feel as the categories? Otherwise the colors are great. --Hinney 09:40, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

How to add new Quests?

Hello, i have two new quest that aren't on the wiki yet, but u don't know how to add new quests, so maybe some of the administrators can help me, one is a Class Quest for LoreMaster called "A Well-Ordered Mind" and the other is a Shire quest called "Confront The Old Took".

I will wait for some replies or/and instructions, thank you all for the help :D --Locusito 20:04, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

I've created a new page to help define how you should enter in a new quest. Help:Quests --Hinney 20:28, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Links to other sites

Hi, I am new here and hope to help a little. I really like what is being done on this wiki.

I have a question about links to external sites, is there some page for that? Or is a better way to ask the owner of the content if you can place it on the wiki? There are some sites with information about locations of unique drops that would be really handy information. --Pomg 05:18, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

Welcome! There is a page Fansites which was once linked to from the Main Page (or from one of the suggested ones)... you could add the websites there and we'll see to adding it to the frontpage...
and asking the site-owners (or just letting them know) is always a good idea ;-) --Xander 05:27, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

To ;loc or not to ;loc

Typing ;loc in-game will give the current coordinates of the character in a readable format like 15.5 N 37.2 W. While I can see this being very helpful information for quest and accomplishment locations, is this too much information to be given players in this wiki? Or should we start gathering and adding this information?

edit: OK, so I'm a doofus and missed the Landmark coordinates page. I vote we add more loc info into quests as possible.

--CaptainMidnight 14:22, 3 May 2007 (PDT)

Yup go for it. Maybe we can do a mini location template like Xander did for the money template:worth --Hinney 09:36, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

LOTRO Wikis goal

Greetings :) first off, I was very very happy, when I found out, that there is a WIKI dedicated just to LOTRO. Good job, guys and gals! /wave Because I am kind of sick, that some peeps in certain forums just ask the same questions over and over again, compile "stickies" where a WIKI is so much better suited really.

one of the questions pondering me is though, that what do we want to achieve with that WIKI here. reason why I ask is, that

  • a WIKI really shines in some areas (like guides, FAQ's, linklists etc.).
  • a WIKI has some disadvantages compared to a database though.

Where I am coming from (and excuse my english, am no native english speaker), is that there are already quite a few other sites out there (like allakhazam with bestiary and items DB, or lotro-crafting.com for tradeskills). I have the feeling, that this wiki should NOT (and probably is not capable of)

  • listing every quest (maybe the most important ones, yes)
  • listing every item
  • listing every NPC/Mob

quite a few stubs here already, so starting with flattening the wiki might be a good idea, as well as starting to use templates (i.e. for easier navigation) Please do not take this post as disrespect, far from it. I want this wiki to be an excellent source, for both vets as well as noobs.

--Kajolus 05:39, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

No disrespect taken, it's always good to discuss the wiki especially if an improvement to the wiki is the outcome.
I think a wiki is a great place to have the quests and items as you can easily update the text and as you mentioned provide a guide and FAQs and link the required mats etc. Now currently where the wiki lacks is with displaying a map with the little dots to find a certain mob that you need to go kill 20 times. The wiki has the power to solve that as well, just no one yet has implemented a solution, but then again a /tloc is just fine for me. The nice thing is each quest page has a talk page that everyone can agree on the best guide/spoiler for the quest and attempt to provide only the most useful information on the quest page. If you noticed we requested that the items and quests have their own wiki namespace so you can focus searches and the wiki category system should also help finding that unique quest or item.
What do you mean by flattening the wiki? It's pretty flat as we have tons of links on the main page and I know a few have talked about adding more hierarchy to the wiki to make the main page not look so busy.
For navigation there's of course the categories to follow, but you are right we need more navigational templates. There are a few navigational templates in use and a few more being developed but I think currently we have more data entry folks than we do maintainers and we don't have enough time to keep up. --Hinney 09:33, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Fixing Weapons Infobox

I can't figure out how to change this but the weapons infobox indicates that a hunter gets the crossbow skill at 20. As a hunter I can tell you that we don't get that skill until 30.

Can anyone confirm/deny this? So hunters and guardians both get crossbow skill at level 30? Skeeve 08:00, 9 May 2007 (PDT)


Graphics on the LotRO-Wiki

how about new logo for the wiki? anyone up to it? --Xander 05:04, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Yeah we need a new logo bad!!!! --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
See Lotro-Wiki.com:Logo Contest‎ for more info... --Xander 04:49, 29 May 2007 (PDT)
Cool, hmm, <.< finding time to play with Inkscape. --Hinney 00:36, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Player Character Template

hi everyone, name is Mike, go by Ealdor. As you may have noticed I have added a Player_Characters template system. Check out Example:Player_Character or Ealdor for an example. This will work very well for people to put bios on there characters. Im still working out some of the rough spots as it was designed for a Style sheet.

Also as a note, I know it is hard to control all the time but one of the ads was for EQ2 gold *frown* Is there a stand on this?

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ealdor (Contribs • Message).

If there are any gold selling adds just post the URL (try not to click on it) on my talk page and I can see about getting them removed. --Lotroadmin 12:01, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

Back to subject, we need to come up with some way to categorize all the players pages, template does a good deal already but all those categories need to be further categorized =) I started already making all of them as subcategories of Category:Player Characters, but kinship & server categories need another way of doing it, probably something simple like another subcategory only for kinships and only for servers, I just cant come up with suitable name... --Xander 01:11, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Hello, can I make a suggestion that you add eye colour to the character profile Also, how do you find a link there with having it bookmarked, so from the main page? --Chris 15:01, 19 April 2007 (PDT)


I played a bit more with Mike's template: changed the header and further adapted it so that some fields lead to inclusion of categories only if they are filled with info... this should help us get rid of subcategories like Members, No Kinship Members and so on... may need some further work in including most common things that are written in kinship field, otherwise just leaving field blank does the magic... result is for now at {{pcbeta}}... --Xander 09:16, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
PS: You can test it on the talk page, note the empty kinship field and absence of any nonsensical subcategory for it =) --Xander 09:20, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

One more thing that seems odd to me is that many people write name of their char with {{ }} around it, making a name to template and thus breaking the page a bit, since there's no such template... why would someone do that? how can we prevent it? 'til now i just looked at every new char to correct it and create new subcategories... --Xander 09:16, 7 May 2007 (PDT)


Trophies Cross Ref

Just a note and ask for help. Kinmate asked me about how we know what professions go with what trophies. I said hmm, we need a wiki page for that. SO. Ill start compiling a table which people can use as a cross reference for this. --Ealdor 14:15, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Infobox NPC

An Infobox appropriate for named NPCs has been created at Template:Infobox NPC. Banaticus 14:40, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

like i commented on talk page for this template, there is misunderstanding as to what npc is, or for the use of this template...
and one more thing is that this template uses other non-existing template. --Xander 01:19, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
If you want to reply on the template talk page, then that's the proper place to reply. Don't split a discussion into two parts. :) Banaticus 19:07, 26 April 2007 (PDT)
I didn't split it, you did... just wanted to warn that on basis of your description & example template didn't do what it was intended to, since some things were mixed up bad, you shouldn't really announce unfinisched things =P --Xander 22:22, 26 April 2007 (PDT)


of skill, item and class infoboxes

how about making all of the float on the right side of page, that way if there's any additional info other than infobox itself it is displayed on the page parallel to infobox...

see Captain's Valour for example... i would suggest removing class infobox from such pages at all or replace it with another text only at the bottom of the page... reducing it as much as possible... in this case perhaps one-liner: "Captain: Skills, Traits, Accomplishments..." or even put this one-liner at the top and add at the bottom bigger one with all the captain traits...

What do you think? --Xander 11:34, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

i think three one liners at the bottom would be fine. In the case of Captain's Valour you would have a one-liner for captain:skills, traits, accomplishments, one-liner for class traits:Bu,Ca,Ch,Gu,Hu,Lm,Mi and finally a one liner for all the captain trait's. Kinda like what you did for the regions, right? Sounds like a lot of work but i think it would be worth it to enhance navigation. --Hinney 19:35, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
ok. i'll start working on it --Xander 00:50, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

traits

class|name=Captain

captain Traits

here are "alpha" versions, they definatly need some variance in color and style, any suggestions? --Xander 02:03, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
played with colours a bit... --Xander 09:34, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
I think they look good. I would recommend making the {{captain}} to {{class|captain}} so that we can use the same template for all the classes and even the main class pages. --Hinney 09:40, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
Done, more or less... its adopted for all classes and will look like {{class|name=Captain}} see tlink|class for more info!
If you can further simplify it, you're most welcome to do so =) somehow I am not able to do that now, probably as always not seeing something very obvious... -Xander 04:07, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
For colors, should we just consider using the same look and feel as the categories? Otherwise the colors are great. --Hinney 09:40, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
Could you explain what you mean by that? I'm not sure I understand =) --Xander 04:08, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
I think the colors for the navigation subzone template is perfect as it matches the categories at the bottom. I went ahead and populated east of the subzones with the templates you created, but now i kinda wish i would have done something like <noinclude>{{region|{{PAGENAME}}</noinclude> to include a regional navbar and a subzone navbar. I think i'm tad confused about what to use region or zone --Hinney 14:28, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
Well I think we will have to get rid of subzone and replace it with subregion... as for region template, you mean just using one template for example {{region|Ered Luin}} to show both {{Eriador}} and {{Ered Luin}}? It could be made... I just thought to use both templates on big regional pages and subregion templates on page for each subregion. --Xander 16:04, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
Yep, with Eriador below it, and might even take it a step closer that if you did {{Celondim}} it would list both {{Ered Luin}} and {{Eriador}}. Not sure what to provide for the {{Celondim}} but it could contain links to a list of resources, landmarks, NPCs, etc --Hinney 16:39, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

To ;loc or not to ;loc

Typing ;loc in-game will give the current coordinates of the character in a readable format like 15.5 N 37.2 W. While I can see this being very helpful information for quest and accomplishment locations, is this too much information to be given players in this wiki? Or should we start gathering and adding this information?

edit: OK, so I'm a doofus and missed the Landmark coordinates page. I vote we add more loc info into quests as possible.

--CaptainMidnight 14:22, 3 May 2007 (PDT)

Yup go for it. Maybe we can do a mini location template like Xander did for the money template:worth --Hinney 09:36, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
I signed up here originally to add quests, but after plugging in the Weaponsmith quests, I noticed all the crafting info that needed updates. So I asked about ;loc and now I'm doing non-loc inputs. :) --CaptainMidnight 12:55, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

LOTRO Wikis goal

Greetings :) first off, I was very very happy, when I found out, that there is a WIKI dedicated just to LOTRO. Good job, guys and gals! /wave Because I am kind of sick, that some peeps in certain forums just ask the same questions over and over again, compile "stickies" where a WIKI is so much better suited really.

one of the questions pondering me is though, that what do we want to achieve with that WIKI here. reason why I ask is, that

  • a WIKI really shines in some areas (like guides, FAQ's, linklists etc.).
  • a WIKI has some disadvantages compared to a database though.

Where I am coming from (and excuse my english, am no native english speaker), is that there are already quite a few other sites out there (like allakhazam with bestiary and items DB, or lotro-crafting.com for tradeskills). I have the feeling, that this wiki should NOT (and probably is not capable of)

  • listing every quest (maybe the most important ones, yes)
  • listing every item
  • listing every NPC/Mob

quite a few stubs here already, so starting with flattening the wiki might be a good idea, as well as starting to use templates (i.e. for easier navigation) Please do not take this post as disrespect, far from it. I want this wiki to be an excellent source, for both vets as well as noobs.

--Kajolus 05:39, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

No disrespect taken, it's always good to discuss the wiki especially if an improvement to the wiki is the outcome.
I think a wiki is a great place to have the quests and items as you can easily update the text and as you mentioned provide a guide and FAQs and link the required mats etc. Now currently where the wiki lacks is with displaying a map with the little dots to find a certain mob that you need to go kill 20 times. The wiki has the power to solve that as well, just no one yet has implemented a solution, but then again a /tloc is just fine for me. The nice thing is each quest page has a talk page that everyone can agree on the best guide/spoiler for the quest and attempt to provide only the most useful information on the quest page. If you noticed we requested that the items and quests have their own wiki namespace so you can focus searches and the wiki category system should also help finding that unique quest or item.
What do you mean by flattening the wiki? It's pretty flat as we have tons of links on the main page and I know a few have talked about adding more hierarchy to the wiki to make the main page not look so busy.
For navigation there's of course the categories to follow, but you are right we need more navigational templates. There are a few navigational templates in use and a few more being developed but I think currently we have more data entry folks than we do maintainers and we don't have enough time to keep up. --Hinney 09:33, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
Flattening the wiki (taken from our corporate WIKI): "Please help flatten the wiki. It is better to have a single dense page of information broken into sections and subsections rather than having a hierarchy of sparse pages. Having to click down through layers of "navigation links" in order to get to content can become confusing. It's best to start out by putting all your content on one big fat page at first, and over time, refactor out stuff that has enough merit or substance to have a page all its own." I was under the impression, that sites like Ent's_Strength or Dwarf_Axe-damage_Bonus are simply one pic sites... BUT, when used with templates, it of course has the benefit of simply needing to chane in one lcoation... hmmm...I guess leave it as it is right now is the best, hehe.

As to navigation templates, I am really no pro, but can try to find a way in case I have enough time. And lastly, the WIKI and quests and items well, I just thought better leave it to the pros (like alla and other sites). but, again, just my point of view, and I might be off here. :) bummer, back to work for now... --Kajolus 05:41, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Fixing Weapons Infobox

I can't figure out how to change this but the weapons infobox indicates that a hunter gets the crossbow skill at 20. As a hunter I can tell you that we don't get that skill until 30.

Can anyone confirm/deny this? So hunters and guardians both get crossbow skill at level 30? Skeeve 08:00, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Confirmed. Hunters get crossbow at level 30 --CaptainMidnight 07:25, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

FAQ list

Greetings, I just started an FAQ stub. as I am not sure, if something liket hat exist already, I was reluctant to link it somewhere.

--Kajolus 05:21, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Lorebook

I guess we're out of business now, see wonderfull Lorebook from Turbine! --Xander 16:13, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

/cry
Well it was fun doing the wiki.. So do we close this puppy down? Can we migrate over the kinship lists and PC or just let everyone migrate over? Should we refocus this wiki? --Hinney 18:03, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
Either we refocus, but somehow once Lorebook goes live I can't imagine that people would edit our wiki rather then official (except that for now we Europeans cannot post on turbine forums and that means also we can't edit Lorebook)...
or one of you US guys get in contact with them through your forums and ask if they want our information incorporated in their lorebook before going live...
And you're right it is/was fun doing this wiki, I learned a lot! --Xander 23:42, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
I think that was a mistake on Turbine's part to split EU and US up, but I'm sure codemasters will just create a copy in english, french and german. so it might just work out for the best.
We still have to see if turbine will allow user generated game guides, spoilers and the roleplaying information.
--Hinney 23:56, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
I too have learned a lot & will miss this place if it doesn't continue - but there may well yet be a place for the guides and spoilers at least. Separate US & UK versions would be stupid - oh wait, they've already done that with the gamer itself :p - well it's been nice meeting you all :D DancesInTrees 00:05, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
If I might make an observation...sometimes trying to predict how things will go leads to some, um, missjudgements in what will happen. It might be a bit premature to decide that people will obviously prefer the "official" wiki. We don't know what the editing rules will look like, we don't know if we will be able to customize the information into useful formats, we don't know if Turbine will suddently be deluged by 1,000,000 complaints that we all worked on different wikis and pull the plug on the project, etc. I would suggest we just keep going and allow things to take their course.--Nemmerle 06:05, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
Maybe you're right...
I would still suggest that we use this coming week to gather suggestions as to what should we do with this wiki! And next week we could (or rather should?) hold a vote on this issue... --Xander 09:57, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
I think this is a good idea,no matter what, and something we should do more or less continuously. I noticed one thing right off about the Lorebook (which is really cool, IMO) - the information was not well formatted. I am wondering how much control Turbine will insist on having over the format and design of the individual pages. For example, the Crafting Professions pages are awful. Few will like the recepies organized alphabetically - it's not the way we think about it. People want their skills organized by level because that's how they encounter the topics in the game itself. If Turbine sticks with their formats, there will still be a role for "rogue-wikis" to reformat the content into more useful order.--Nemmerle 13:20, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
Well, after reading forums a bit more i gather that you will be able to do there everything you are able to do here... they will just have more control over it, and very few users will get more abilities and those named were only protecting the page... (look through the turbine tracker section of the forums and check out dev answers to all things concerning lorebook)
So speaking for myself only: I would rather edit official wiki... even in the beta and with mistakes it already has more info then we do... adding a few navigational templates plus a few additional pages with different order for skills recipies and so on is going to be very easy... and i know that official wiki that is built-in into game is going to be visited far more often then anything else... ever... so it will attract more people and more contributors...
If we offer something unique however it might help... but even those crafting wikis or other lotro wikis on the net do not have more info than we do... and did not get as many visitors as we did... --Xander 14:24, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
It would be a dreadful mistake to abandon Lotro-Wiki just because Turbine is adding an official one. There is absolutely no way to know what their policies will be, nor their commitment to the project, nor the effect of allowing hundreds of thousands of authorized editors. I do know that it will never look as clean and functional as Lotro-wiki, and that the very best it can possibly turn out is no better than what this wiki is already on its way to turning out. Just to give one example, it seems pretty clear that the one killer thing they could do, given their ownership of the database, would be to auto-publish coordinates for NPCs, named mobs, POI's etc. A few lines of code and they'd instantly beat all our future efforts. But they're not going to do it. To them that would be like an easymode button. So the same as here, players are going to have to do it - only because it's Turbine owned and mass subscribed, players will then have to hope that their coords aren't erased by management or defaced by goofs. If we've got to do the work anyway, I say do it here, where there's independence, and where the average contributor's IQ exceeds his heart rate. I'm going to start contributing here even at the cost of lowering that average IQ. :) Stay the course! --Carfilhiot 13:27, 12 May 2007 (PDT)


Wikia

Hello. I'm from Wikia and we currently have a small lotro wiki that we're intending to promote and develop but I thought it would be better for us to join forces rather than compete. Therefore I would like to offer the lotro-wiki community completely free hosting from Wikia. Nothing about the site would need to change and the URL would continue working as normal.

Wikia is already building many of the world's largest wikis, including Wookieepedia, Memory-Alpha, Uncyclopedia, and soon the World of Warcraft wiki. We'd love to make Lotro one of the next big wikis so I would like to invite your community to join us in building that.

We use a version of MediaWiki, so all of the content here could be easily imported to Wikia which also uses the GNU Free Documentation License. We also have some extra features that you might find useful as well as an optional skin which includes article rating options and a display of the most popular pages. See this example of the new skin. Try logging in to see that editors get only a very small advert.

Wikia is working on ways to remove gold ads on our gaming wikis.

It would be a shame to see all the efforts here go to waste because people want to use the official wiki instead. With the extra features Wikia can offer, there's a reason for people to stay on an independent wiki, but I don't think that's likely if both sites are using an unmodified version of the same software. The same issue happened when the official Guildwars wiki launched in competition to an independent site (not a Wikia one) that had 15000 articles. Despite their size, many people still left for the official wiki which has build up almost 7000 articles in just three months!

This community would continue to be responsible for your own content and administration and you could set whoever you like as sysops, and bureaucrats. Unlike Lorebook, Wikia isn't going to impose any content or style guidelines on you. And you have the advantage of maintaining ownership of your own text since that is all released under the GFDL, meaning no corporation can ever take away from you your own rights to do whatever you want with it!

We offer not just free hosting, but also some optional new features that will help to bring in new editors, and smaller ads for editors. We're also happy to make individual wikis for guilds or other groups with Lotro. For example, our Earthen Ring wiki is one guild realm from the World of Warcraft.

We'd like for lotro-wiki.com to become the number one independent site for lotro fans and I do believe that Wikia can help you with that. We can provide you with 100 million impressions of our spotlight ads which appear on other Wikia sites to bring in new users, and you'd be part of a wider gaming network that includes wowwiki.com.

Sorry for those who'd already read my message on Skeeve's talk page but I wanted to bring my proposal to the wider attention of the community.

Angela 14:31, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Thank you, Angela. We apppreciate your efforts, but we have to think it through, such a decision is not taken lightly! I myself have an account on wikia and contributed from time to time here and there, I know there's a great community on wikia and some very helpful admins... so just have a bit of patience with us...
I am rather surprised to see wowwiki move to wikia, but i know they had their problems... and Earthen Ring wiki is not a guild but a server wiki, I am not sure you really have guild wikis, since I requested a wikia space some time ago for a relativly small project, and though it was granted the process was rather lengthy and confusing...
So like I said thank you for your offer, we'll let you know our decision... --Xander 14:56, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
As I said before, you're welcome to join us if you don't want to compete :)
Couple of questions
  • What are these extra features? A link to a page with details is fine :)
  • Why should only editors get smaller adverts? Surely we want the best possible experience for all our visitors?
  • Presumably if we were hosted with wikia, we would be displaying adverts for other wikias in return for ours being shown on others - would these be on that extra strip on the right or are they moveable? (Almost all your example links have the (annoying) right hand bar.)
DancesInTrees 01:39, 12 May 2007 (PDT)


The extra features are all optional, so if there's any you don't like, you don't have to turn them on. These include intrgration of videos from YouTube, email notification of changes to the wiki, calendars, Google Maps, dynamic pages lists, parser functions, spam control, automatic listings of good content and active users, article rating, public voting and commenting, Wysiwyg editing, user challenges, forums, and blogs that pull content from the wiki.
The reason editors get smaller ads is a reward for their work on the wiki. We can't offer that to everyone because large wikis are extremely expensive to host and the advertising revenue all goes to supporting that cost.
There would be ads for other wikis and in the new skin these appear on the right sidebar - we've got rid of the left sidebar in the new skin which leaves more room for the content compared to the current one on Wikia where we have bars on both sides. In the next release of that new skin, each box on the right bar other than the google text ad at the top is going to be movable, so if you didn't want to see the ads for other wikis, you could just move that to the end of the page where you would hardly see it. If you want the expert tools box at the top because you use it a lot, you can move it there. If you're a newbie who doesn't want expert tools, you can hide them. Each user will have control over how their own sidebar looks. In future, we're also going to have extra widgets that you'll be able to your sidebar if you want them. For example, you could display a list of which users are online or changes to your favorite articles there. If you don't like the new skin, there's the option to just switch back to monobook (the default MediaWiki skin) or even to one of the really old skins like cologne blue which doesn't have ads. Angela 08:18, 12 May 2007 (PDT)


We currently have no plans to merge this wiki with another website. We also don't mind if you use firefox with adblock plus to block the ads if you considered them annoying. We do our best to filter the gold ads, but the ads are only here to cover the web hosting and nothing more. --Lotroadmin 12:48, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
I understand, but I'm not suggesting you merge with another website. What I wanted to explain was that Wikia could provide you with free hosting for this wiki as well as a place for users to get free Lotro subscriptions if they create a new wiki for their world. If you or anyone is interested in this, please let me know by email to wiki@nge.la. Angela 18:27, 13 May 2007 (PDT)
Now you're sounding like those telephone sales-persons who try to convince you they're not trying to sell you anything, they just want to discuss their product. In your very first sentence you said "join forces" - any argument claiming that doesn't mean merging is pure semantics.
I'm unsure why it matters so much to you that lotro-wiki remains outside of wikia's control. Independent wiki's are quite possible, for example eq2i.com is very successful. It seems that the main thing you are offering is free hosting (and I gather lotro-admin is happy with their current hosting arrangements) & extra adverts; extra features can be added to any wiki if wanted. DancesInTrees 00:08, 14 May 2007 (PDT)
Angela,
I think the community. editors and webmaster have spoken, we are happy with our current web hosting situation and would like to politely decline your offer. --Skunark 09:37, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

Paypal donate button

Any plans to add a Paydon.gif button? I would certainly use it when I saw it. --Carfilhiot 12:32, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

Naw, we aren't out to make money from the website. Did you mean as a way to remove/replace the google ads permanently? --Skunark 17:26, 14 May 2007 (PDT)
Nope, I simply meant as a way to share the costs of hosting it. If costs aren't a factor, wonderful; if it ever reaches the point where they are, you would have lots of potential support from your readers and contributors. Actually I didn't know about the Google ads because my Firefox settings haven't shown me one in ages. --Carfilhiot 20:54, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

new google search

I added a new search button that just searches the lotro-wiki and *.lotro.com sites. Should be more useful than the one before --Lotroadmin 23:52, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Vandals

Today a we had a vandal add the following code to the wiki

<div style="position:absolute;top:-50px;left:-50px;width:100%;height:100%;font-size:50000px;font-color:transparent;">h t t p : / / w w w . m m o d a i l y . c o m < / d i v >
added spaces for effect

This would create a very huge link such that if anyone clicked on the page they would see a advertisement for lotro gold. If you see this please immediate revert the changes and leave a note on my page --Lotroadmin 18:08, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

french

Well, we have a first Character Page in French! Should we redirect french people to french subwiki? or just ask them to put info in English? I corrected entries with categories for now... --Xander 04:11, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

no one is using the french page so i would hold off on that --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Emerging/Popup information

Is it possible to create emerging/popup boxes at this wiki? I think it would be interesting in order to better organize the huge amount of information related to this kind of games.

If it is not possible, is it possible to put HTML code directly to the wiki pages? It would be easy to put emerging information via HTML code.

--Zeipo 04:53, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Do you mean tooltips type boxes? If so, where would you see them being used?; if not, can you give an example of what you do mean?
Wikis allow some HTML, I believe what can be used varies depending on the wiki script used, but I think you're asking for Javascript, & I personally have no idea whether that's a possible combination ;) DancesInTrees 07:46, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Turbine's Lorebook uses tooltip type boxes. When I mouseover an icon, I see information about that item. --CaptainMidnight 09:19, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Yeah, I've seen Lorebook using it, but I can't look at the source of it... Anyone has any ideas? or would like to look it up? I think it is indeed worth looking into and perhaps even adding here as a feature, but do not know if I as European can look this up in the source files of Lorebook to find out if that's some plugin or something else... --Xander 05:20, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
I mean something like this: http://www.thottbot.com/?c=Warrior
That allows you to put more information in one page, avoiding overclicking. In the example it is done with javascript but you can get a similar effect with extended HTML (not standard but heavily supported)
--Zeipo 15:31, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
The popups require javascript integration and a mediawiki extension to use it. If you know how to do any of that contact lotroadmin --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
I found two ways of doing that: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgRawHtml and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Runphp_page. I have installed Wikimedia on my PC and played with the first one and it works. The problem of both solutions is that are very unsafe... So, maybe it is better to give it up.--Zeipo 10:15, 28 May 2007 (PDT)
I can ask lotroadmin to enable user javascripts if you want to try it on this wiki. I know a few of us wanted to enable the item infobox but no one was taken the time to figure out how to enable php and javascript such that it would populate the tooltip with just the infobox. --Hinney 00:41, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

boilerplates

I've added two boilerplates: one for deeds and another one for kinships... at least one more (for regions) is coming... any ideas or suggestions? --Xander 05:02, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Ah cool --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
Added Kinship type and lvl fields to boilerplate... --Xander 01:18, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

guidelines and policies

I'm bringing this up once again, since we have more and more PC and Kinship pages and I think that Guidelines and Policies are needed to keep those pages conform with the rest of the wiki... anyone up to it?

We need initial drafts which could and would be discussed and then voted upon. For those drafts one could look up similar things either in english wikipedia or in other game wikis... --Xander 05:09, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Did you see the policy page from set by Codemasters/Turbine? I think I named it game policy Ves 06:22, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
Yes, I've seen it, but it's not what I mean!
See Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines for an example ... or WoWWiki:Policies & WoWWiki:Guidelines for the ones adopted to a game wiki... --Xander 08:41, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

events

I suggest we introduce some events here, for example lets start with two: one being logo contest the other some variation of the drive of the week that you can find on other wikis. Later we could add Featured Article and other stuff...

Logo Contest should probably go on for a few weeks perhaps even a month and is pretty much self-explanatory.

The Drive of the Week: we could announce an area on which we would like to concentrate for the coming week, for example: Items - so everyone tries to add a few items, we could probably specialize even more crating stuff, quest rewards... you name it... and after a week we could make some small token or an image that a person(s) that contributed the most could place on his userpage...

--Xander 12:41, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

Sounds good, I've been pretty busy lately and not much time to play nor help out on the wiki. I hope that will all change in a few weeks. --Hinney 00:38, 30 May 2007 (PDT)
same here, mate, came back from Cambridge a few days ago and have already full desk of books to read and other stuff to do for the University =) --Xander 01:20, 31 May 2007 (PDT)


Graphics on the LotRO-Wiki

how about new logo for the wiki? anyone up to it? --Xander 05:04, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Yeah we need a new logo bad!!!! --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
See Lotro-Wiki.com:Logo Contest‎ for more info... --Xander 04:49, 29 May 2007 (PDT)
Cool, hmm, <.< finding time to play with Inkscape. --Hinney 00:36, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Emerging/Popup information

Is it possible to create emerging/popup boxes at this wiki? I think it would be interesting in order to better organize the huge amount of information related to this kind of games.

If it is not possible, is it possible to put HTML code directly to the wiki pages? It would be easy to put emerging information via HTML code.

--Zeipo 04:53, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Do you mean tooltips type boxes? If so, where would you see them being used?; if not, can you give an example of what you do mean?
Wikis allow some HTML, I believe what can be used varies depending on the wiki script used, but I think you're asking for Javascript, & I personally have no idea whether that's a possible combination ;) DancesInTrees 07:46, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Turbine's Lorebook uses tooltip type boxes. When I mouseover an icon, I see information about that item. --CaptainMidnight 09:19, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Yeah, I've seen Lorebook using it, but I can't look at the source of it... Anyone has any ideas? or would like to look it up? I think it is indeed worth looking into and perhaps even adding here as a feature, but do not know if I as European can look this up in the source files of Lorebook to find out if that's some plugin or something else... --Xander 05:20, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
I mean something like this: http://www.thottbot.com/?c=Warrior
That allows you to put more information in one page, avoiding overclicking. In the example it is done with javascript but you can get a similar effect with extended HTML (not standard but heavily supported)
--Zeipo 15:31, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
The popups require javascript integration and a mediawiki extension to use it. If you know how to do any of that contact lotroadmin --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
I found two ways of doing that: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgRawHtml and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Runphp_page. I have installed Wikimedia on my PC and played with the first one and it works. The problem of both solutions is that are very unsafe... So, maybe it is better to give it up.--Zeipo 10:15, 28 May 2007 (PDT)
I can ask lotroadmin to enable user javascripts if you want to try it on this wiki. I know a few of us wanted to enable the item infobox but no one was taken the time to figure out how to enable php and javascript such that it would populate the tooltip with just the infobox. --Hinney 00:41, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

boilerplates

I've added two boilerplates: one for deeds and another one for kinships... at least one more (for regions) is coming... any ideas or suggestions? --Xander 05:02, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Ah cool --Hinney 09:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
Added Kinship type and lvl fields to boilerplate... --Xander 01:18, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

guidelines and policies

I'm bringing this up once again, since we have more and more PC and Kinship pages and I think that Guidelines and Policies are needed to keep those pages conform with the rest of the wiki... anyone up to it?

We need initial drafts which could and would be discussed and then voted upon. For those drafts one could look up similar things either in english wikipedia or in other game wikis... --Xander 05:09, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Did you see the policy page from set by Codemasters/Turbine? I think I named it game policy Ves 06:22, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
Yes, I've seen it, but it's not what I mean!
See Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines for an example ... or WoWWiki:Policies & WoWWiki:Guidelines for the ones adopted to a game wiki... --Xander 08:41, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
I think we need something for kinship links.--Hinney 19:55, 10 June 2007 (PDT)

events

I suggest we introduce some events here, for example lets start with two: one being logo contest the other some variation of the drive of the week that you can find on other wikis. Later we could add Featured Article and other stuff...

Logo Contest should probably go on for a few weeks perhaps even a month and is pretty much self-explanatory.

The Drive of the Week: we could announce an area on which we would like to concentrate for the coming week, for example: Items - so everyone tries to add a few items, we could probably specialize even more crating stuff, quest rewards... you name it... and after a week we could make some small token or an image that a person(s) that contributed the most could place on his userpage...

--Xander 12:41, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

Sounds good, I've been pretty busy lately and not much time to play nor help out on the wiki. I hope that will all change in a few weeks. --Hinney 00:38, 30 May 2007 (PDT)
same here, mate, came back from Cambridge a few days ago and have already full desk of books to read and other stuff to do for the University =) --Xander 01:20, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

Shores of Evendim patches updates

I've created a Stub {{Stub/Evendim}} and am working through the patch notes applying it to any page where the info has apparently changed. Obviously once the new/changed information has been verified/corrected the stub should be removed. DancesInTrees 03:57, 14 June 2007 (PDT)

Stubs added to everything appropriate I can find, now just gotta see how many I can clear :) DancesInTrees 03:32, 19 June 2007 (PDT)

Greetings, I love this wikki and thought i could help. I made the change for the new group heal in Monster play and planning to update all the Monster play section with this patch changes. --Drexlorn 14:19, 18 June 2007 (PDT)

Great! --Hinney 19:22, 18 June 2007 (PDT)

I'm done with all the Monster play classes changes with the Evendim patch (verified in the game with each of my monsters). But there's some things i was not able to modifify :

1- The infobox field displaying "Power Cost" should now display "Cost" instead to reflect the new display since patch. For now i just added the word "Power" after the value so when the change is made everything will be automatically correct.

2- Changing the weaver skill "Tainted Bite" to "Tainted Kiss".

3- The way they now display the range is no more "Max range : 3" but "3m Range". It would means here a modification of the infobox field. For now i just added "m" after the value.

Thank you ! --Drexlorn 19:28, 30 June 2007 (PDT)

Thank you - I don't do monster play so I'd never get round to checking those out!
I've moved "Tainted Bite" to "Tainted Kiss"
To move a page:
  1. click the "move" tab at the top of the page
  2. go back to the original page & check what links there (what links here on the left) & go change those links
  3. when you're happy the original page isn't needed any more add {{Delete Page}} to the page, preferably with a brief explanation.
I'll leave template changes to our template gurus :) DancesInTrees 00:36, 1 July 2007 (PDT)

Namespace on towns and area's

Hi all,

I not sure that here you have talk about this if not I have some idea's. for towns maybe have town:Kheledûl, Area's like lands area:The Grimwater and maps well you get the Idea. So like to know ehat you think of this. --Speico

(i "botted" away the region: prefix for one zone when noticed your entry, i can undo it pending our new plan of attack)
You might already know, but for a wiki typically is a page defined by namespace:page name if the namespace doesn't exist then it becomes a page in the main namespace.
  • The main advantage of having multiple namespaces is that it will allow you to limit searches to specified namespaces.
  • The main disadvantage of prefixing pages with area: or town: then if someone would search for just "The Grimwater" it wouldn't go directly to that page but list all pages with that word on it (normally it would list area:The Grimwater first).
  • Another option is to review the categories for regions and make them more meaningful? (maybe we do this anyways with the above options)
So my question would be, should we request a new region namespace (which i could "bot" all known regions, towns areas into the new namespace,if acceptable)?
--Hinney 23:36, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
Well I for it :) --Speico 01:22, 23 June 2007 (PDT)
I would like to keep it down to one name space, so what should we call this new namespace? Region, World, Zone, Location? Just let me know and it's done --Lotroadmin 20:30, 26 June 2007 (PDT)
No response??? I created a namespace called Region --Lotroadmin 18:49, 28 June 2007 (PDT)
Thank you for add in Region. --Speico 00:59, 29 June 2007 (PDT)

Creating New Pages

Does anyone know how to create a new page(item) other than a quest page? I haven't been able to find the link. I understand what template to use. I just don't understand where to initiate the creation process. --Diminulette 16:41, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

If you want a new page all you have to do is insert text like [[Page Name]] to where you want to add the page. You might also check out Help:Contents for more wiki tips. --Hinney 17:02, 21 June 2007 (PDT)
Or type Item:Thing Name in the search box to see if it exists (check capitalisation!), if not you can click on the red link to create the page. DancesInTrees 23:40, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

Logo Design, Graphics, Blah Need feed.

Bah a freind asked if i could help design a new logo or more yet. Though I need some feed on what ppl might like to see. Thanks ^^

--Vith 23:53, 25 June 2007 (PDT)

Images.. We need them everywhere:
The Logo is currently 200x200px just post what you create to this wiki page and we can discuss it. We can also add a banner on the main page if you the logo you create doesn't really spell out lotro-wiki.com.
Also we could use logos for several of the pages. If you think a logo would help a page out feel free to just add one.
Try not to use GIFs.
Xander started thisLotro-Wiki.com:Logo Contest‎ so you might add a few in there and allow ppl to vote on the best logo
--Lotroadmin 20:33, 26 June 2007 (PDT)

Overly sensitive search function?

Hello! I just noticed that when trying to look up a quest called 'Searching for the lost springs' you don't get any hits at all unless you spell it absolutely right. I, for example, searched for 'searching lost spring', which should have worked, but it gave no hits. So I wrote the whole quest name and there it was. Any chance that this could be changed?

Oh and, sorry if this shouldn't be posted here, I'm rather lost :p

--Jenwyn 05:01, 27 June 2007 (PDT)

It's ok to post here. I can't even find the Searching for the Lost Springs. Did you mean Searching for Fresh Springs? So there's two search features on the left side, the top one is part of the wiki software that allows you to first go to a page name [go button], second search for text [search button and 2nd result of go button]. This search uses an ajax feature to help pre-search pages but if you hit enter it will do a normal search. The google custom search was added because the wiki provided search sucks in certain situations, however the google custom search doesn't cover the entire wiki but it does include lotro.com in it's search results. --Hinney 09:35, 27 June 2007 (PDT)

Capturing text

Is there any easy way to capture text from the game? If I have write it down and then re-key it into Lotro-Wiki - it ain't going to happen! Synique 21:09, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

There's no easy way to do it, but i normally just take screen shots and fill it in later (well have had time to do much in a while) --Hinney 23:01, 28 June 2007 (PDT)
For the stuff that can be copy-&-pasted (eg quests), it's easiest to run windowed & copy directly into the browser. But yeh for skills & the like it's just a case of take screenies. DancesInTrees 00:00, 29 June 2007 (PDT)

Improvements

I've got to say two things: great initiative, but not so great interface and guidance (I don't say this to be mean or a b**ch or anything)..

Check out [[2]], really a great game-wiki..

=) --Simonborch 19:33, 29 June 2007 (PDT)

Are you offering to help? Or just trolling? DancesInTrees 01:00, 30 June 2007 (PDT)
Mainly trolling, but thats only because i don't have much experience with wiki.. I promise to contribute whenever I can though

Template:Infobox Skill question?

Why is it that when you place in the correct class in the class section, the 4x4 class square comes up and not the name? to demonstrate... [3] When you take burglar out of the template box, the square disappears. When you put burglar back in the template box, the square reappears.

I don't know how to fix it. I'm still new at wikis

--Frejawulf 18:40, 1 July 2007 (PDT)

That Class square was/is temporary solution for easier navigation between various skill pages. I've been working on other methods (see here for more info), but got sidetracked in other projects for the university, plus I have lots of exams starting this week and a few papers to write... so if anyone wants to pick up and implement it go for it! --Xander 01:00, 2 July 2007 (PDT)

Redirecting Links

I can't seem to find it in the Editing help section (the one that doesn't exist according to the left) and then I went into the regular help section and still can't find it. How do you force redirect a link to another?

--Frejawulf 18:44, 1 July 2007 (PDT)

Mostly, as I think you're worked out, simply moving the page leaves a redirect to the new one. If you need to insert one use #REDIRECT [[pagename]]. DancesInTrees 23:45, 1 July 2007 (PDT)

Signatures (Wiki User, NOT in-game related)

In past wiki's I have used there has been a "signature" option in "my preferences" which allows users to create custom signatures which replace / augments the text the "tildas" generate. In my experience this is a great way to add a bit of colour & individuality to the wiki discussion pages. Has these been considered on this wiki? --Raxous 06:06, 4 July 2007 (PDT)

Can you point us to a wiki with that feature? --Hinney 20:16, 4 July 2007 (PDT)
I though you just created your own template & used that instead of the ~s DancesInTrees 00:23, 5 July 2007 (PDT)
It's GuildWiki (http://gw.gamewikis.org), if you sign up and go to "my preferences" you will see the "Custom signature" field, which in my case includes the following code:
[[Image:Raxous_wiki_sig.png]]- [[User:Raxous|Raxous]] -[[Image:Raxous_wiki_sig.png]]
This simply, as stated above, appends to the standard text displayed when using the 4 tildas, producing a line as follows;
Raxous wiki sig.png- Raxous -Raxous wiki sig.png 12:31, 6 January 2007 (CST)
As I said, the only difference is that it is automatically called in place of the standard sig stuff when I type the four tildas into a discussion. Hope that helps! Raxous wiki sig.png- Raxous -Raxous wiki sig.png 06:53, 5 July 2007 (PDT)
It doesn't look like a mediawiki extension, maybe it's the wiki version. I will ask User:Lotroadmin to upgrade the wiki version. --Hinney 08:25, 6 July 2007 (PDT)
Great, well I don't want to cause any trouble! It may well be a mod. I just thought I'd mention it as it really helps create memorable / recognisable identities for the wiki users... Raxous wiki sig.png- Raxous -Raxous wiki sig.png 09:20, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

HELP! Hobnanigans

I have been unable to complete Hobnanigans (on either team) as the chicken always bugs. Has anybody managed? We need the quest text, preferably for both but just for one would be a start - and there are only 3 days left to get it. Category:Summer_Festival_2007_Quests -DancesInTrees 23:48, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

Patches / Updates - Front page

As a regular player I would love to use LOTRO Wiki as my homepage, can I suggest that we make the direct link to the "Patches" section of the Wiki much more prominent. As this is a part of the game that more experienced players will want to monitor closely, and have precise details of changes available ASAP. --Raxous 02:45, 10 July 2007 (PDT)

It's on the front page; how prominent do you think it should be? It looks fine to me as it's only once every month or 2. DancesInTrees 08:48, 10 July 2007 (PDT)

Lotro-Wiki.com ?? Shouldn't it be LOTRO-Wiki.com

Sorry to be a purist, but this wiki is refered to in it's own text as "LOTRO-Wiki" / "LOTRO Wiki" (Quite rightly) but the main logo is "Lotro-Wiki.com" which I think would be much nicer (and correct) as "LOTRO-Wiki.com". If agreed could whoever made the very kewl current logo simply adapt it to "LOTRO-Wiki.com"? --Raxous 02:51, 10 July 2007 (PDT)

Congrats!

On over 2000 articles!

>Your pal, Stip(of the other wiki ;) )

Stip 13:47, 11 July 2007 (PDT)

Thanks Stip :) I think the counter is rigged though, You have to have a "[[" on every page before it gets counted and we really have a lot more than 2k pages. --Hinney 14:02, 11 July 2007 (PDT)

Botting away

I've been botting away for the past few days trying to get common names in order. If you have any idea's or suggestions on what I should bot next let me know. Typically i can do name corrections, add links and/or add categories. I've also requested that the CSS be updated for the item and skill infobox to inherit (i guess) the color of the current row. So for a green text line the links will be green with an underscore. I hope this looks better. Let me know if you don't like it --Hinney 22:13, 18 July 2007 (PDT)

well as you botting away can you rename Tarkrip to Tarkrîp as the spelling is not the same --Speico 04:04, 2 August 2007 (PDT)
Sure I can give it a shot. I just got to find the key on my keyboard :) ----~

Effect is not a real item

As I and some others be doing Effect's we have over 100 items of them and as they are not real a item can we have a new type call Effect. so we can move these effect item to new type. Thank you --Speico 20:16, 3 August 2007 (PDT)

Gold Spammers

Seems like the gold sellers are using accounts to advertise. Please keep an eye out. --Hinney 23:22, 21 August 2007 (PDT)

About another Lotro Wiki

Greetings,

While doing some search on the web for other Lotro ressources i found another Wiki dedicated to Lotro that seems to have a lot of contributors and work on progress.

http://lotro.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

My question is :

Should we contact these peoples and try to unite our manpower in order to produce one, bigger, better and more often updated Lotro Wiki ? One Wiki to rule them all ? ;)

They already merged in the past with another lotro website so my guess is that they might be open for it.

Your thoughts ?

--Drexlorn 12:47, 22 August 2007 (PDT)

Well, I don't have much of a say in it, but I'd say more manpower working on getting this site all fleshed out is always welcome. I'm not sure how a "Merge" would work though... sounds rather messy if you're just dumping two databases into one. Oh, and notice that guy Stip who posted up there? He's from this "other wiki" :)
--Fedaykin 14:10, 22 August 2007 (PDT)
We were contacted by them a while ago - along the lines of "you won't survive without being part of wikia". You can read the gory details in the June 10 archive at the top of the page. DancesInTrees 00:06, 23 August 2007 (PDT)
Ah yes, I just read through it. Definitely doesn't sound like something we want to team up with. I also read an interesting suggestion below it though... what about Donations? I mean, you've said youre not out for a profit, and you shouldn't be. But I'm sure that paying for the hosting of LOTRO-Wiki can't cost a dime a month, and a few people who come here and benefit from the information would likely want to give something back (including myself) to those who host it for them. Especially as the site grows... I wouldn't want to see it all go down or merge because it's getting too expensive to host. Just my concerns :) --Fedaykin 10:54, 23 August 2007 (PDT)

The City of Kings patch stubs

I'm starting to work through the City of Kings patch notes & applying {{Stub/City of Kings}} + a comment as appropriate. (Where I am fairly sure it is in-game from reading the US forums I'm just making the change. Roll on the EU patch ::) ) DancesInTrees 04:56, 23 August 2007 (PDT)

I'm skipping Monster Play as we have an enthusiastic monster contributor ;)
And I'm skipping crafting as that's gonna need some major changes, little point labelling every single thing. DancesInTrees 05:21, 23 August 2007 (PDT)
Already started to update MP section with Book 10 update. Much work incoming... :P -- Drexlorn 08:02, 23 August 2007 (PDT)
Already working hard on those new instance articles :) Unfortunately it means some work on older ones that need some love will have to be set back a little, but then again I need to run those again to see if anything has changed. I'll also go ahead and work over the new kill amounts for deeds, which have been significantly lowered. --Fedaykin 10:47, 23 August 2007 (PDT)
There's changes since Evendim and in Book 10 about the fields showed for skills. We need to change the template for skills : http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Template:Infobox_Skill
Fields that changed :
Power Cost --> Cost
Lasts for --> Duration
Recovery Time --> Cooldown
Max Range --> (value inserted here) Range
That's what i've seen so far, i'll double check later. I'm not sure if it's the same for free people character since i only log on a monster player, my guess is that it's the same system. I'll have to confirm this.
The question is : can i modify this template to update it ?
Thank you. --Drexlorn 07:51, 27 August 2007 (PDT)
Yes please do update it, I'm still hiding from messing with templates :p DancesInTrees 05:26, 28 August 2007 (PDT)
The template is updated. One note though, the people working on the normal character classes will have to add Power after each cost of skills to reflect what's in the game. My Monter Play classes are already updated since Evendim (The cost format changed in this patch).
Example of skill to be updated : http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Cunning_Attack
Example of correct skill with new format : http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Sudden_Strikes
--Drexlorn 07:23, 28 August 2007 (PDT)
News : All Monster Play data updated and had to work on lot of formatting too. Still working on a new idea for the presentation (i left a small piece in one class) but i'll jump on MP quests first to complete it entirely.--Drexlorn 07:28, 28 August 2007 (PDT)

You could of course just add Word Power into Template itself, so instead of

|-
{{#if:{{{power<includeonly>|</includeonly>}}}|
<!-- -->{{!}} style="vertical-align: top; color: darkseagreen;" {{!}} Cost: {{{power}}}
}}

you will have:

|-
{{#if:{{{power<includeonly>|</includeonly>}}}|
<!-- -->{{!}} style="vertical-align: top; color: darkseagreen;" {{!}} Cost: {{{power}}} [[Power]]
}}

and then you are not required to add this one word to each spell and skill... PS Yeah I'm still lurking around here, just have to do a lot (and I mean A LOT) of work for my university =)
Xander 10:45, 28 August 2007 (PDT)

ok thank you for the tip Xander. I made the changes and it looks fine so far (checked monster and normal char skills). This trick allowed me to edit the new range format too. :D If anyone see something missing or incorrect in the infobox_skill data please let me know. --Drexlorn 08:01, 29 August 2007 (PDT)

Help the n00b

How do I insert pictures? Also, when I write texts, it doesn't seem to change lines automatically in the "finished" version. Is that a fault of mine? Btw, I don't think to much energy should be put into quests, not yet anyway. the subject is already beautifully covered by lotroquests.com, so the effort should probably be spend on correcting stuff that's not already out there and available.

--Miturian 08:07, 31 August 2007 (PDT)

There's a couple things to keep in mind. Sometimes I've noticed you put a space in front of the text you write - that's what basically tells the wiki it's preformatted ie "don't mess with the formatting for this". If you want to tab a paragraph, simply do it like I did in response here: add a colon in front. The more colons you add the more it gets tabbed over.
As for adding pictures, the best way to find that out (and anything else) is to just edit an article with a picture and see how it's done. No need to save changes, you can always just use the "Show Preview" feature a few times when messing around to see what it looks like. Images are done by using [[Image:ImageName.JPG]] or for things like thumbnails use [[Image:ImageName.JPG|thumb|300px|right|This is the text below the image.]]. Notice on the last bit you can also change how large (in pixels) the image is, and how it's aligned (right, in this case).
Now, concerning quests... well, perhaps that website has a few more? Either way, on here we have hundreds of quests, and hopefully in time we will get them all. Where's the point of just stopping something because another website has a little more imformation? In that case we might as well change the Wiki into a website that just links you to the "most informative" websites for everything. I think the reason to document all this information is quite clear. :)
Last but not least, thanks for the recent additions, and welcome to LOTRO-Wiki!
--Fedaykin 08:45, 31 August 2007 (PDT)
Ok, I couldn't figure out how to make a proper reply to the thread, so this'll have to do:
So, how do I upload the picture? =)
Well, what is the reason to document all this info? Surely it must be to make a useful tool for LOTRO-players who need specific info on specific subjects. That goal is more effectively served if we update the info that people actually need, instead of what is already easily available. I'm all for having all the info in one place, but we're not gonna get there anytime soon, one way or another, and I don't see why we might as well not be as useful as possible until that time. Also, lotro-quests.com does have the benefit of offering maps with locations for every single quest. I don't know where you guys stand on walk-throughs, but their's are idiot-proof. I never talked about stopping, I was pointing out the fact that while uncharted areas remain, we serve the playing population much more by charting those, instead of just making our own versions of already known lands, so to speak. And thanks for the welcome =)
Miturian
Check the toolbox, there's an Upload file link. From there it's pretty straightforward.
As for your point on quests, I do agree... however, what sort of "uncharted territory" are you speaking of? I can't think of much that hasn't been documented on one website or another, aside from instance information and walkthroughs. That's not something everyone can do either, because you need to be level 50 and you need to find groups that are capable of doing the instances.
--Fedaykin 21:30, 31 August 2007 (PDT)
Sorry to be a bit suspicious here, but you're the third person we've had come here & tell us we shouldn't do quests & that lotro-quests is much better. Do you go to Alkazam, or thebrasse.com (to pick sites of very different sizes) and tell them their quest info is worse than lotro-quests? From my quick look I'd say idiot-proof is right, there's far too much detail. However each to their own. (Personally I wouldn't touch that site with a barge-pole given that they both were and are running lotro gold & lotro ready made accounts ads.)
If you prefer what they are doing then you are very welcome to go join them; if you like what we are doing then you are more than welcome to join us here. There's no denying our quests could use more work; but in many cases the walkthough needs to be little more than "Joe Bloggs is here". But many times the quest really does say in sufficient detail what needs doing (we do have a small running disagreement on that point ;) ). I'm amazed how many times people refuse to read what the quest says & insist on asking in ooc.
For the rest of your points , Fedaykin has already answered more eloquently than I could :D ; except "change lines automatically" - if you mean that a single newline is ignored you are correct - new paragraphs require 2 newlines, or use <br /> to force a newline without paragraph break. DancesInTrees 00:45, 1 September 2007 (PDT)

Help me

Is it possible to create a link to a category? I'm trying to make a link Metalsmith Recipes, but it won't seem to work. Also, how do I make redirects? I often find that I can't find something, simply because I don't use the right mixture of capital letters. How do I create an entry immedieately redirecting to another article?

--Miturian 14:24, 4 September 2007 (PDT)

Well, I suppose I could teach the ins and outs of Wiki editing but it's already been done. If you can't figure it out by checking out how the articles etc. are done, there are two places to go to easily find the answers to everything (if you can't find it on there, the answer is 42).
--Fedaykin 16:53, 4 September 2007 (PDT)

Some questions

Okay, I've recently started to update the Captain section. I'm kind of new to the whole wiki thing, though. I have a ton of questions. =(

1) Power costs: they change as you level. Is there some kind of global standard for this? Power costs as a level 1 or something?

2) Skills that grow as you level: how are these handled? Do I just list the damage for a level 1?

3) Mislabeled pages: Some of the Captain skills have been renamed, but the page titles refer to the old ability name. Should I just leave it, or create new pages and mark the outdated ones for deletion?

4) Editing: Should I add information frequently, or wait and try and do it in one big update? For example, it usually takes a day or two before I figure out the daily cap for a class deed. Should I update it daily, or wait until I have it mostly filled out?

5) Links: I often see links to stuff like Power, Might, etc in the middle of ability descriptions. I haven't really been adding them, since I don't see the point I guess. Is that a big deal?

6) Uploading: For some odd reason, I can't upload a .png image created by Photoshop. It says there's a virus. I've scanned it on my PC, and used http://virusscan.jotti.org/ as well. Everything comes up as negative.

That's all I can think of for now. =)

--Nurvus 19:58, 5 September 2007 (PDT)

1) Not that I know of
2) Some skills have a table showing values - problem is they can be affected by various things; so mostly just the initial value is listed
3) If a skill has been renamed please use the "move" tab at the top to move the page to the new name - this automatically puts a redirect on the old page.
(If you want to tidy up completely, you can then go to the old page, check "what links here" on the left; make sure all links are redirected to the new page; then change the old page to something like "Category:Obsolete This skill was renamed [[new name]] in the City of Kings update." (I hate throwing things away :D so I created the category specially!))
4) Entirely up to you & what suits you best.
5) There's no real consistency across the skills there - it's probably best to add them, but it can look messy :p
6) I had something like that when I tried to upload a .jpg as a .png, if it's not that then I don't know, sorry.

DancesInTrees 00:00, 6 September 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for the info, Dances. =) What you said about the .jpg -> .png deal was right. Oddly enough if I save the file as a .bmp and then save it as a .png, it works fine. Pretty strange. I've been trying to add some missing icons, even though I think they're somewhat dark due to being taken from an in-game screenshot. Better than nothing though, I guess. It's kind of nice adding stuff that isn't in the Lorebook yet. =)

--Nurvus 23:48, 6 September 2007 (PDT)

Glad it worked :) . But please don't upload .bmp's; they're HUGE *shudder*.
If the pics are too dark try altering the gamma (or possibly brightness) before uploading, in whatever painting program you have (or if you don't have one grab Irfanview & use Image/Enhance colours)
DancesInTrees 00:16, 7 September 2007 (PDT)

Oh, don't worry. I've actually been paying close attention to file sizes. That's the main reason I didn't just upload the files as a .jpg hehe. They were quite a bit larger than the .png version. =) And yeah, I've done what I can with the brightness. They're not Lorebook quality, but what can ya do? I've also polished up the Guardian Legendary trait section (complete with icons! :p) that some other people started. I might look into adding some Legendary Trait stuff for other classes, since that information is hard to find. I'm still getting the hang of wiki editing. There's a lot to learn. =)

--Nurvus 01:00, 7 September 2007 (PDT)

Quest help

I intend to add missing quests and double-check existing ones (below lvl 30 or so until I level up higher myself). Some quests don't give you enough information, do we put a section where "additional info" on the quests is given (like taking a shortcut over a derelict bridge for a postal delivery because you can't jump over the water as a dwarf...)? Using javascript it could be in a collapsible box so you would have to click on it to see the "spoiler". It's also useful for quests such as Master of the Lash which is a single-player quest but throws 5 orcs at you just before you get to the monster and so is impossible at the level it is registered for. --Stalfur 08:33, 6 September 2007 (PDT)

==Hint==, ==Spoiler==, ==Notes== and/or ==Walkthrough== can be added underneath the rewards section - choose the heading/s you feel to be appropriate (or add your own; I think those 4 are the ones in current use). I like the idea of a collapsible spoiler; if you can get it working I'll happily pinch I mean borrow :D the code & apply it on other quests too.
(I could be wrong but I thought I did manage to get a Hobbit across there one time; usually I go straight for the ford (Elves can wade :p ).)
DancesInTrees 00:22, 7 September 2007 (PDT)

Range?

Why have people been linking to that word? I mean, what's there to explain? I made a page for it, just so it'd go away from "broken links", but it seems a bit silly.

--Miturian 14:46, 8 September 2007 (PDT)

Agreed, but if it's wanted *shrug* DancesInTrees 00:58, 9 September 2007 (PDT)
It's in the Infobox Skill template. That's probably where most of the links come from, since the template is protected. --Nurvus 14:47, 9 September 2007 (PDT)