Talk:Halbarad

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Check out the talk page... I created a Halbarad (Collective) page for as far along the Epic as I have gotten thus far. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magill (Contribs • Message).

Interesting. I was wondering what a page like this would look like. I'm not sure that I like it, yet. Perhaps there is too much information there. I don't think we need as many Halbarad pages as I helped create. Perhaps a factoring into a general page, much like the collective one that contains lore and general info, and one each for the epic quest chains he is involved it. I'm thinking that a low level toon running around in Esteldín doesn't need to be concerned with, or even informed about his later activities in Eregion, Enedwaith or Dunland. And, by the time you get there, you don't care about his early activities any more. Perhaps hideable sections like quest hints and walkthrough would work. Perhaps smaller articles such as one devoted to Halbarad in Vol III, Book 4 as they go through Dunland.
I'm still not sure how we should handle the phasing so it isn't so confusing. After I completed Book 4, Chapter 30, and talked to Halbarad, I logged off (while standing beside him). When I logged back on, there was no one there. I found that disconcerting. And annoying.
@RTC: Rangers move silently and quick. Falling asleep? Of course he moved ;) -- Zimoon (talk) 02:43, 31 October 2011 (EDT)
Anyway, great effort. I'd like to hear what others have to say about the page. RingTailCat (talk) 16:42, 30 October 2011 (EDT)
I have to say I like this way a lot, not 100% perfect but this is also a first attempt ;)
What I lack is more space between the location sections, otherwise it is perfect. The images from different locations also adds to the story, just that these are almost lookalike, but that is another story. Great effort Magill, and good job. /thumbsup
PS. On a completely different note <offtopic> I am no fan of all those extra headers for epic quests that some NPCs have, certainly not when there are many and just one quest each. I firmly believe we can gather them under '''Epic Quests''' and list them in order. People are not that stupid :P
Halbarad seems OK though, the Esteldín section has just one orphan but the others are so large that it makes it look good anyway. </offtopic> DS. -- Zimoon (talk) 17:20, 30 October 2011 (EDT)
I like this. The ONLY thing I would rather see changed is for the two sentences that CURRENTLY start with his name to be at the very, very TOP of the page, above any of the section headers. That is, "Halbarad is a Ranger of the North; a kinsman and follower of Aragorn. He struggles to unite the scattered peoples of the North Downs against the hordes of Orcs which have come down from Angmar through Ram Dúath." Then, that second sentence could reasonably be repeated in the Lore section, although the first part ("is a ranger of the north") would no longer be necessary (in the Lore section).
Overall, though, I love it. I've been wishing that all the phased-NPC pages would be like this, rather than separate. I enjoy seeing the pictures from different places all on one page.
Now what I REALLY wish is that we could rename this page as just "Halbarad" and give redirects from Halbarad (Rivendell) to Halbarad#Rivendell. ie:
  • if someone starts typing "halbarad" in the search box, selects Halbarad (Rivendell) from the dropdown, they go to the Rivendell section on the Halbarad page
  • add Halbarad (Rivendell) to the Category:Rivendell NPCs - if anyone clicks on the link in the category page, because it's a redirect, it brings them to.... the Rivendell section on this Halbarad page!
Obviously, the same would apply to all the other ones: Halbarad (Enedwaith), Halbarad (Esteldin), Halbarad (Dunland), and whatever else comes up.
In the long term, it may also be possible to use sectional transclusion of this information, if we move toward using that function (partial transclusion) more frequently. -Adelas (talk) 22:38, 30 October 2011 (EDT)
I guess it is not important to have redirect such as Halbarad (Rivendell) when they all are under one page, but we will have them anyway. A casual visitor will not expect to find pages like Halbarad (Rivendell) but just one page that includes info also about his doings in Rivendell, right? However, since we today have pages such as Halbarad (Rivendell) these must be made redirects so that no pages linking to them become broken.
Yeah, since everybody seem to be so positive I go ahead and execute some moving :D -- Zimoon (talk) 02:43, 31 October 2011 (EDT)
If I just had the power to delete the redirect that I cannot select to avoid when moving :( -- Zimoon (talk) 02:50, 31 October 2011 (EDT)
The thing I suggested about the redirects, above, is more for the convenience of categorization, linking to the appropriate NPC for a given area, and so on - and because I HATE seeing the title of this page have (Collective) in it. I know since you were using it like a sandbox, the name couldn't be avoided (or you would have overwritten the original halbarad page) but I definitely wish to see one page called "NPC Name" rather than a bunch of "NPC (Location)"s. -Adelas (talk) 04:42, 31 October 2011 (EDT) (forgot to sign)

lore section

Hey Zim - I vote to rollback that most recent change. Normally NPCs don't have a lore section.... but then again, normally, NPCs don't have three photos and multiple locations on the same page. I think if he merits having his own specialized multi-location page, he merits having a Lore section on that page, if for no other reason than to break it up visually. Having the ultra-brief description (one line) at the very top before the lore section, the way it was before, helps satisfy the people who say "TL;DR" or "just get to the point!" Plus, it shows in the TOC how the first section is Lore/description/whatever word you use to describe it. The way it is now, the TOC doesn't reflect that there is a wuarter page of text before the first section appears (of the sections linked/named in the TOC). I didn't want to just bulldoze and roll it back, but I think it makes a lot more sense to have the additional section title there. -Adelas (talk) 03:31, 1 November 2011 (EDT)

I would guess a Lore section is entirely appropriate on every page which references a place, event or character from the writings of Tolkien. It stands independent of the game. Lore is less of a factor for such information that is entirely invented by Turbine for this game. Content that is derived from the movies or other's writings might also "fit" in a lore section. RingTailCat (talk) 07:34, 1 November 2011 (EDT)
I add my support to a brief introduction at the top, then "get on with it" with the in-game info. Lore is, in most cases, secondary to what's actually going on in the game, and I would prefer to see it at the end to add flavor to the page. Perhaps sprinkling throughout - maybe as small italicized snippets - would do the same while breaking up the repetitive quest list bits. Sethladan 12:44, 1 November 2011 (EDT)
I am unbiased, concurring with RTC and Seth. There is a difference between general quick-facts (location and role), elaborated in-game facts, and Lore. Many articles exist where these are mixed, but agreeably the borders are blurred and not rigid. I am fine with Lore as such, no problems. Seth's suggestion is perfect, in the end of the day I guess common sense gets us a loooooooooong way :D -- Zimoon (talk) 15:37, 1 November 2011 (EDT)
PS: Reading through the "intro" text, what about moving location specific parts to respective section? That is maybe exactly what Seth had in mind. But keep general info and lore on the top. If a Lore header is necessary after that remains to be seen. And yes, I should read first and write later, but I am a bit tired. DS. -- Zimoon (talk) 15:40, 1 November 2011 (EDT)