Talk:Guardian Deeds

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Format of Deed Pages

There still seems to be some format inconsistencies in the post-Helm's Deep deed pages. I personally like the Guardian Deeds format that Eirik Ratcatcher set up here and on some other class pages but there are some different ones:

Currently Hunter Deeds is similar to Guardian, but the skills are imlink'd so they show their icons. I'm not fond of it this way, looks cluttered for a summary type page.
Currently Minstrel Deeds appears to be in it's own unique format. The tiers lack consistency and it makes the format appear cluttered.
Currently Rune-keeper Deeds uses this format but with even more imlinks than Hunter. Again, I think it's too cluttered for a summary page.

Thoughts anyone? Kollins (talk) 23:04, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

The Hunter and Minstrel pages are really still Works in Progress. They were done first.
  • The intent was to have a pop-up tooltip for the skill.
  • The "mode=" parameter can be changed from imlink to link or ... see {{Tooltip}} for documentation of the modes.
I think the only page(s) that followed the Guardian model was Burglar Deeds.
  • This box: {{class-infobox}} probably needs to have a "deeds" line added to it. Ok -- that's done.
Beorning-icon.png Burglar-icon.png Captain-icon.png Champion-icon.png Guardian-icon.png Hunter-icon.png Lore-master-icon.png Minstrel-icon.png Rune-keeper-icon.png Warden-icon.png
Classes Be Bu Ca Ch Gu Hu Lm Mi Rk Wd
Skills Be Bu Ca Ch Gu Hu Lm Mi Rk Wd
Traits Be Bu Ca Ch Gu Hu Lm Mi Rk Wd
Deeds Be Bu Ca Ch Gu Hu Lm Mi Rk Wd
  • BTW, it is very easy to change all of the imlinks on a page -- Don't know if you know the "Advanced" tool bar? -- Click on "Advanced" in the edit window tool bar; on the extreme right-hand side the weird icon is "find and replace"
However, it is global and not easily restricted, but for situations where you are changing ALL OCCURRENCES of a unique string, it is very useful.
Meaning, changing imlink to link is easy, but changing the [[ and ]] to {{ |mode=link}} is a bit more impossible in most cases.
So, have at it!
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


Thanks for the tip on the global find and replace! I usually copy/paste out to notepad++ for major edits like these. I'll have to look at the different link types. I have also seen some other skills, like Champion Deeds that advance with multiple skills, RK probably isn't unique.

My only concern was stepping on toes if I just go and change the other pages to match Eirik's/Guardian's format. Kollins (talk) 02:56, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I have worked out a more detailed description of how the Individual and Class Deeds Tiers work and added it to the top. I also tried to play with some of the formatting in the top section, but was having trouble getting the TOC to fit in. I have changed the Burglar, Champion, and Warden pages to match the format here since they were the ones most in need of editing that I also have characters to use as reference. Minstrel is next on my list, but it needs a lot of formatting and I want to update it without taking any existing info out until it's confirmed to be obsolete. Kollins (talk) 10:18, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
How's this layout work in your browser? For me, it is quite clean -- but then I use a 27 inch monitor and typically have two Browser windows open side by side.
This kind of page can also simply use __NOTOC__ and suppress the toc completly. The page is neither particularly long, nor does it have multiple different topics.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:14, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I like the layout. I couldn't get the TOC or class infobox to sit clean within the sections but it looks like you have. Mine's usually firefox or chrome on one of the 27" monitors but I only maximize browser to verify page editing. I see you changed the construction sign to talk:guardian deeds, that's probably best too since most of it is on this page. Kollins (talk) 09:15, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Kollins


Looking at the tables for each tier, it seems there really isn't a need for each tier to have it's own link/separate page. For that matter, does each deed need it's own link/separate page? Kollins (talk) 14:05, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
The link is to the actual deed presentation. That presentation historically mimics the in-game deed log information.
The deed presentation makes sense if it's how non-class deeds are listed on the site too. I was just realizing that Eirik had each meta-deed tier set to link to a new page, so that would be 8 new pages for each tier for every class. Those 8 new pages would mimic the content here verbatim and have to be linked back here so users searching who land on a tier x page could get back here. That seems like a big waste of effort IMO Kollins (talk) 09:15, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Of course, the "deed page" could be transcluded back into the summary page. Since I'm playing with the Rune-keeper page, let me see if that can be done rationally.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 09:19, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm torn on the transcluded meta deed in RK. On one hand, it allows the meta-deeds to have their own page without duplicating effort but the deed template makes you link out to each class deed to find specifics like which skills count and max/day. I tried just putting the blurb about giving a class skill point into the table on guardian tier 1. I now realize the reason I like Eirik's format is that everything is right there on one page: each deed or quest and the details on how to complete them. Kollins (talk) 14:22, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
It's definitely not behaving the way I expected. It is also not behaving correctly at all (the Deed Template). It should be generating a Tooltip, but it's not. I have to spend some time figuring THAT out.
But, yeah, other than that it's ugly. :)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 21:43, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Punt... my screw-up... deed doesn't do tooltips.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 22:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I updated some missing info and tried a slightly revised style on Hunter Deeds. I like this one.
Kollins (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Did not think my changes would cause such a stir. Are they still valid after the mid-march change noted down below? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 04:22, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Deed Pages Status

This section contains the Legendary deed components which need to be added/updated for each class.
  • Common header added to all pages - done
  • Sub headers for Non-meta and Legendary deeds added to all pages - done
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 03:46, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Burglar

Completed -- Goingbald (talk) 18:59, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Captain

Champion

Guardian

I added the level 39 deeds based on books I found on the trainer. I added what I think are correct lv50, 58 deeds based on wiki searching, but Legendary Deeds section is still incomplete without confirmation. Kollins (talk) 13:54, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Category: The Shadowed Refuge Quests and Category: The Path of the Defender of the Free Quests both show the same quests here on the wiki and I don't have a 58+ Champion to confirm. Kollins (talk) 04:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I believe they are the same. One (the former) is what "everyone" sees, while the Latter is seen only by the Guardian Class.
I suspect that this is a unique "categorization" as I don 't recall any of the other Class Quests being given their own category.
I suspect that for consistency sake (which Turbine is notorious for ignoring), the "questchain" for all of those in "Path of the Defender" should be changed to "The Shadowed Refuge Quests".
(I don't have Guardians either. It would be worth looking at the other level 58 Class Quests and categorizing them all the same way.)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 01:38, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Guardian skill Litany of Challenge appears to have been replaced with Litany of Defiance. I have tagged Litany of Challenge as obsolete and updated the Heat of Battle Deed in Guardian Deeds

Hunter

Is somebody currently working on the Hunter? So far I haven't seen anyone but then again I'm quite new :p I would not mind giving the hunter a look if I'm not interfering with someone's project (:

Faratalath (talk) 23:07, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I added post-HD deeds based on https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?534975-Helm-s-Deep-Class-deed-changes and have confirmed some of the low level ones, but there's still a lot of missing/outdated skills/deeds/links and the legendary deeds section (see Rune-keeper_Deeds#Legendary_Deeds for example) to fill in. Kollins (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
It looks like style for the class deed pages is still in flux, but missing content go to town! Kollins (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Hunter Legendary Deeds: same as guardian; I can confirm books sold by trainer, but my hunter is too low level to confirm the 50/58 quests. Kollins (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Lore-master

Minstrel

Rune-keeper

  • It is unclear if there are any "tracked deeds" which are NOT part of a meta deed. It turns out I don't have Meta Deed 6, so I cannot verify what the components of it are, and if the unattached deeds I have (not complete) will show up under them.
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 03:46, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Warden

Deed availability levels and other thoughts

Here's an interesting question -- What is the inter-relationship between "level at which a deed triggers" and "Traited level?"
I.e. Most?Many deeds require the execution/use of a specific skill to complete the deed. Except for the "default skills" those skills are made available by the Trait Trees (insert a big, "I think" here).

Q1- Are there any skills still awarded after the Intro, NOT related to the Trait Trees ?

  • Each class gets some number of "default skills" as they go through the introduction, which nominally lasts until the character reaches Level 7 or 8, although you can short-circuit the Introduction, in which case, I think you are level 5. I haven't started a new character in a while, so I don't know the "post trait tree" status of that situation.
  • Once you get your first trait point and select a specialization - level 6 for the ability to select a specialization, and level 7 when you get your first trait point. At the time of specialization you get another 2 or 3 skills. I think at that time, you will then have a total of about 7-10 skills. No idea.
  • Guess I need to go create a new RK and see what happens.
So, with all of that said, the question becomes:

Q2- Should we just drop the "Level" column from the deed tables?

I think the level column is still important and I have been populating it with the level at which the deed becomes available (as I notice it.) There are skills that you gain at one level but don't trigger a deed until another, so if you get say Sweeping Cut at level 4 but Swept Away (Deed) won't progress until level 10, then the level is still valid. Kollins (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I have added the following to the Rune-keeper Deeds#Non-meta Class Skill Deeds section
Non-meta Class Skill Deeds
These are deeds which lead to various skills, but are not associated with Class Trait Points
  • It is unclear if there are any "tracked deeds" under the Class/Race/Epic tab of the Deed Tracker which are NOT part of a Meta-deed.
  • Deeds will show up WITHOUT an associated Meta-deed until one of the three deeds in that Meta-deed is completed. At that time, the Meta-deed will appear indicating the three component deeds of the Meta-deed.
This is why I added a bullet item "Individual Meta Deed Tiers are not visible in your Deed Log until at least one of the 3 individual deeds are completed." to the top of Guardian Deeds page. Kollins (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Q3- Is this section needed at all? Simply adding the two sentences (or versions thereof) to the header section.

I know with Minstrel the teach instruments to others deeds are not part of a meta-deed, is this what you were asking? Kollins (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Q4- I wonder if there is a "magic number" i.e. Max number of executions of a deed per day == max number needed for completion divided by 4 or 5? (rounded up or down). Although the 2 T6-8 for RK are divided by 10 for the couple I have verified.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 06:53, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
The max/day is all over the place. Sometimes it divides evenly by the total to come out to 3, 4, 5 even 10 days and sometimes it's arbitrary, like Deadly Strikes which has a 165/day limit (confirmed) and needs 500 times to finish. Kollins (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Q1: Yes, many.
Q2: Absolutely No. Low Cut and Purge Poison become available at lower levels than the associated deeds. Both skills may be rarely if ever used in some playing styles. Players will simply miss the deeds if they will not be aware of the level at which using the skills is rewarded with deeds.
Q4: Yes. Obviously, some magic numbers were kept in mind by the game implementers. But it doesn't help since the numbers differ from deed to deed. In addition to the column "Max per day", we could add a column "Min days to complete the deed" but it would be useful to hardcore TP farmers only. :)
DoomMaster (talk) 16:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Update 13 - Deed changes - possible impact

I don't know if this will impact the Trait Trees; however, there are a LOT of deed changes with Update 13.
See: User:Magill/Projects-Update_13-Rune-keeper#Deed_changes for one group of changes my level 92 hunter encountered on first login after copy to Bullroarer.
These may simply reflect the change in rewards for existing deeds, and the changing of an assortment of tokens into Mark-icon.png Marks.
I got a total of 15 Lootboxes !
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 20:59, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Slayer of Evendim meta deed raises a couple of potential issues. First, it combines the various slayer deeds of two different areas: Evendim and Annuminas. Secondly, slayer deeds are renamed (Annuminas/Invaders from Angmar = Slayer of Evendim/Angmarim). Thirdly, Spirits Aiding Angmar accepts multiple, fairly dissimilar, targets (Flashing Limrafn, Spectral Warrior, Arnorian Knight). Just thought I would mention this as it might affect Deed layout moving forward. The 2nd and 3rd worry me the most as both items could lead to confusion. While I realize that mobs have not previously been included in Slayer Deeds, should it be considered (ie, cross-indexing)? -- Squirmier (talk) 16:29, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Deed page format/boilerplate

Moved from the main page because the HTML comments were causing issues with search results:

this is the format template for post-Helm's Deep class deed tiers

Name Level Task Max/Day
(link to deed)  ? (deed task name, with link to ability(ies), and count  ?
(link to deed)  ? (deed task name, with link to ability(ies), and count  ?
(link to deed)  ? (deed task name, with link to ability(ies), and count  ?

Sethladan 15:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC)