Item Talk:Embroidered 'Battle of Dagorlad' Tapestry Recipe

This recipe appears to expose a Template bug...

the Item:Compendium of Middle-earth, Volume III works fine, however the recipe does not pick it up.

I notice that this is the first Recipes which use this item to have been created thus far. (According to What links here on the Compendium Item page.)
Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC (talk) 13:44, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Fixed. Notice that the item does not use the ", Volume III" suffix but a shorter name up to but excluding the comma sign. Whether it is properly documented at the Crafting template or not I have not checked, but I found it by inspecting how that template was constructed. Actually I am not well versed in how those icon-redirects work and work not, others may have to fill in on. ((Sorry for missing you at IRC, I was just away for a quick meal and I tend to forget to put myself in away-mode.))

Zimoon 14:29, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Yep, the issue there was that icon has a different name than its ingredient item. RTC recently added the ability to specify the icon name (see Template talk:Crafting#alternate ingredient icons) and the ingredients-item-icon parameters show up at the Crafting template, but they're missing if I go through the Create New Recipe link. So there's some page in that process that needs to be updated. -- Elinnea (talk) 16:43, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

I renamed the icon file to File:Compendium of Middle-earth, Volume III-icon.png to be consistent with the naming of icons for volumes I and II. We don't want to name it as though it were a generic icon. And changed this page to use the default icon name. RingTailCat (talk) 17:20, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

The crafting template page Template:Crafting page lists and explains the optional template parameters for alternate icons. When Create new recipe builds the new page, it uses Template:Recipe/Preload to populate the page. This preload page does not include the rarely required alternate icon parameters. RingTailCat (talk) 17:32, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

So what is the correct way to proceed in this case? Upload a new icon though it is identical with another one? Or how do I create a "redirect" for icons? -- Zimoon 17:39, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Notice that, in this case, the three icons are different , , . I don't tend to make a big deal about using a generic icon where there are only two or three duplicates anyway. The big wins come when there are 10s or 100s of items which reference the same icons, as we see with equipment, or recipes. I am always worried that when we see an icon change, it is very difficult to verify that all other items that share that icon on our wiki have changed their icon in-game. RingTailCat (talk) 18:15, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

item renamed, no longer exists, possibly obsolete?

Checking up on a forum post [1] I noticed this item seems to have been renamed in-game. It is now the "Embroidered 'Battle of Dagorlad' Tapestry Recipe". Can't say when this occurred; the poster seems to have noticed it post-U11.2. Taz (talk) 16:13, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

It appears that Turbine simply swapped the two... my tailor who previously had all recipes, now has Dagorlad. I would say, go ahead and change the name to the new one... (maybe leave a redirect behind if you think it's worth it). I don't believe that anyone can have the old name in their inventory (crafting list). The possible exception might be if someone crafted one and stuck it in their vault instead of exchanging it immediately. Vault items tend to NOT be updated until they get moved to your inventory and then they are immediately changed. Although with a lot of the latest fixes to the underlying databases and server systems, that man no longer be true either.

There seem to be many such things which Turbine "updated" recently -- I noted the other day that the Outfitter inventories now all have "Trousers" rather than "Pants." Meaning all of the various references, including image files and the like need to be changed.

There have always been lots of "inconstancies" like these which get flagged during the betas, but which get relegated to the "when we have time" list of fixes... then suddenly a whole bunch of them get changed with little or no reference in the release notes. Since there is no mention of Crafting changes in the 11.2 release notes, I would not be surprised that is when they happened.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 20:25, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

ok will probably just move pages ... i assume existing items in barter wallets and vaults would have gotten renamed with the recipes Taz (talk) 13:57, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

move done, what-links-here stuff updated to the new item name (both recipe & item) ... leaving redirects in place in case someone comes looking for the old names Taz (talk) 15:01, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

LoL... I'm just noticing as I look at these... the Item:Sealed Symbol of Battle, Item:Sealed Symbol of Accuracy, Item:Sealed Symbol of Tactics, and Item:Sealed Symbol of Insight -- all offer the same bonuses. They have been wrong now over a year -- since RoR beta!

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 20:51, 5 August 2013 (EDT)

careful, those stats are actually correct for Symbols (lv65/supreme-tier) ... Battle & Accuracy give phys mastery, Tactics & Insight give tactical ... the lv75 versions are Devices eg Item:Sealed Device of Battle etc. hopefully when i updated the links yesterday i got the right one... ty! Taz (talk) 13:57, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

This is one of those -- what did/does Turbine really intend? issues.

If you compare: Item:Sealed Symbol of Fate, Item:Sealed Westfold Device of Fate. Item:Sealed Eastemnet Device of Fate, you see +20, +30, +40 to the stat Fate. These can be traded or sold.

However if you look at all of the "other" relics, you discover that the "Symbols" offer no + for any stat; the "Devices" offer +20 on a stat, and "Emblem's" offer a +30... PLUS all are BOA. Meaning that they are NOT easily available to any character -- each character must craft the Tapestry on their own as the Tapestries themselves are BOA. (I know each CRAFT can make an equivalent item, but that means that EVERY character must have a T8 GM of the Guild... unless this is all a ruse to force them to be purchased in the LOTRO Store -- I didn't look there!)

One would expect a progression on the benefits... such as you see across Symbol/Device/Emblem OR as you see across the Symbol/Device/Emblem of Fate. What you do not see is a progression from Symbol/Device/Emblem of Fate THROUGH Symbol/Device/Emblem.

I believe that this is a result of the Changes on Turbine's part to eliminate individual stat bonuses in favor of Fate bonuses. While the bonuses are consistant, they don't make sense. Missing on the "Symbols" is any stat bonus. In theory it should have a +10 stat bonus.

Oh well, I submitted the bug again.

Wm Magill - Valamar - OTG/OTC - talk 20:08, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

the stat-equivalences of Symbols of Battle=Accuracy and Tactics=Insight date back to the stat changes in RoI. RoI combined Melee Offense Rating (original stat of Symbol of Battle) and Ranged Offense Rating (original stat of Symbol of Accuracy) into Physical Mastery ... prior to RoI those were distinctly different relics, but afterwards they were the same stat and there wasn't a difference. similarly with the symbols of Tactics (gave Tactical Offense) and Insight (was called Vigour? and gave Outgoing Healing). check out ~2011 versions of the wiki pages if you want to see the original stats.

and yeah, it's odd that these best-in-slot relics are only available to maxed-out crafters. can't buy them in the store, so crafting is the only way to go. of course, you do have to buy guild access if you're not vip ... and the truly lazy can buy entire craft levels at a time now ... and then there's rep accelerators for ripping through guild progression ...

Taz (talk) 01:44, 7 August 2013 (EDT)